Players That Relied Heavily on Athleticism/Tools to be Elite?

VanIslander

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Sep 4, 2004
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Sergei Berezin.

(Wait, ... he wasn't an elite player. But he was an elite rusher.)



I wish the algorithm would show the many times Berezin made end-to-end rushes like Mike Gartner, but with more wiggle, a bit less speed, still full tilt, ... but ending with shots fanned, wide or into the goalie's chest.
 
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vadim sharifijanov

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Oct 10, 2007
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Prime Lindros was always pacing like he would have scored 100pts if he played 75 games in a high scoring enviromment, he certainly had a 100 pts offense.

1.33 ppg are 100 pts player (does not need to have a prefect 80-81-82 game season to do it), Lindros pre scoring going down, was comfortably above that:

1993-94 NHL 1.49 (3rd)
1994-95 NHL 1.52 (1st)
1995-96 NHL 1.58 (3rd)
1996-97 NHL 1.52 (2nd)

2002 rangers Lindros scored like Jason Allison, he had nice stretch for sure with Fleury:

So did Mike York,Kapanen and Conroy.
Parrish and Samsonov did the same, we give credit to Lindros here for being more than a Top 30-40 offensive best player in the league in a hot steak but are we right ?

Could just be that the most time I actually saw him play live that year, not in sport 30 clips was in the Olympics that year, I remember being happy for him when he scored that nothing goal (late third in the 7-1 belarus game), it was a painful tourney for him, at time looking like one of the worst Canadian forward.

so in the 2002 season, lindros (and linemates york and fleury) were tied for 2nd behind iginla on dec 28. so were shanahan, zhamnov, and sami kapanen on the hot streak of his life.

that game, lindros got caught by mark smith in a big open ice hit. here is larry brooks: “The Rangers did not immediately use the term, ‘concussion,’ to describe the status of their most important player, and after the game, neither did Lindros.” more about that game and the aftermath here.

lindros missed the next four games, then went scoreless in his first six games back.

then he scored 18 goals, 34 pts in his remaining 29 games. it was better than his pre-concussion/not concussion pace, but for whatever reason the second half was higher scoring than the first half, so he was only 11th in scoring over that span (jan 22 to the end of the year) and 7th in pts/game. he was behind the absolute best stretches of bertuzzi and naslund’s careers, iginla’s peak season, and (marginally) jagr, kovalev, and jason allison. slightly above bure and sakic.

but the other context is lindros in that post jan 22 stretch kept chugging along at basically a pt/game (which was good for 2nd in the first half but in the 15-20 range in the second half) until he got bure and they went nuts for the last ten games, raising lindros’ pts/game average.

all to say, i think it’s fair to say there was both an immediate impact after the smith hit and a medium term one, where he fell from a too five to a bottom half of the top ten scorer, a which then continued into a longterm freefall in the ensuing years as he started to actively avoid contact (and rightly so).
 
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BraveCanadian

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His biggest skill was bullying his way through people. Make him 6'/190 and he's an average 2nd liner at best.

Which isnt a knock, not everyone that's big knows how to actually utilize it (see Boris Valabik and Jimmy Hayes)

That’s just not true.

One of the reasons Lindros was so highly thought of leading into his career was because he had the skills and hands of a smaller player in the big body.
 

JackSlater

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Apr 27, 2010
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That’s just not true.

One of the reasons Lindros was so highly thought of leading into his career was because he had the skills and hands of a smaller player in the big body.
Lindros is maybe the most caricatured hockey player I can think of. You'd think he actually did skate around with his head down all the time and just pushed people out of the way. If he was a normal sized player he's still something like Jeremy Roenick, which is excellent
 
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BraveCanadian

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Lindros is maybe the most caricatured hockey player I can think of. You'd think he actually did skate around with his head down all the time and just pushed people out of the way. If he was a normal sized player he's still something like Jeremy Roenick, which is excellent

I think play down must how much people were gunning for him too. When you’re the king of the hill it is real tough to stay there long.

The hits that did the real damage to him would be long term suspensions today for sure.
 

MadLuke

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Jan 18, 2011
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Yes, but pretty much all elite players will have many tools, the question will tend to be going from excellent to elite.

Chara is quite the athlete and would have good in many sport including hockey, would 5 foot 10 Chara been elite ? The question can become a bit strange would Chara without his size-strength and world-class athleticism been elite at hockey ? They are athlete playing a quite athletic sports and with only 5 positions that are quite generalist.

Marc-André Bergeron relied heavily on that weird slapshot of his to stay an nhler, but you cannot be elite with only a shot.
 
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VanIslander

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Lindros entered the NHL with his head down... sub-6 foot Captain Crunch Michael Peca lined him up and (predictably) took him out.

We saw it coming.

By 'we' i mean sports bar guys pre-Internet. ... it was a great place to be on game day before the Internet sent everyone to their home computers, and a decade later, to their phones.
 
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Michael Farkas

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By 'we' i mean sports bar guys pre-Internet. ... it was a great place to be on game day before the Internet sent everyone to their home computers, and a decade later, to their phones.
I'm actually envious of this. 80's or 90's sports bar conversations must have been awesome. And I legit mean this...I'm not saying everyone in there was right or factual every time, but I just really like the concept...
 

MeHateHe

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Dec 24, 2006
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Ok, so I'll throw out an unconventional answer here...there's a lot of answers, but if Chara was 6'0" would he have gotten all that rope to figure it out?

He developed into a player, no question. But he was way behind the curve. He was probably just about the worst player in the NHL when he first came in. It finally started to click at 25 or whatever...would he have gotten that kind of rope at 6'0", even 6'2"...?
When Chara got to Prince George, he could barely skate. He looked like Bambi out there. But he beat people up so he got his regular shifts. So yeah, being huge helped.

But one of the things he has/had, that you can’t teach, as the saying goes, is stamina. Guy is running marathons (Boston and London in the span of a week) which you can’t do without serious lung capacity and the ability to push through pain.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
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I'm actually envious of this. 80's or 90's sports bar conversations must have been awesome. And I legit mean this...I'm not saying everyone in there was right or factual every time, but I just really like the concept...
It is gone, sadly.

As are new friends made while waiting for the city bus. We used to look at the sky, stare blindly into space lost in thought, pull out a book (few did), pace around, or strike up a conversation (the word "convo" we hadn't heard yet). It used to be a place to chat.

Nowadays it's earbuds and "smart"phones.

The world is slowly going mad.
 
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