Players overdue for induction to the Hockey Hall of Fame

[frisco]

IMO Rick Middleton is at/near the top of the list, he was a better version of Hossa. Elite 2 way scoring winger who at his peak was Top 10 in goals and points while also Top 5 in Selke.

Middleton is an interesting case:
-He had 980+ points but he played his entire career in the highest scoring era in NHL history so if you take a little air out of those stats they are less impressive.
-Didn't win a Cup but a bounce here or there and one of those Bruin teams could've won one.
-Excellent defensive player but only one top 5 Selke finish (4th).
-Stayed out of the box. High of 24 PIM. I think not taking penalties and still competing defensively is one of the most underrated attributes a player can have and Middleton (among others) doesn't get proper credit for this.
-One of Canada's best forwards on the somewhat forgotten 1984 Canada Cup winning team.
-Had a 1983 playoff run where he ran rampant on Buffalo at record setting levels (19 points in a 7-game series).

My Best-Carey

 

[carjackmalone]

John Tonelli was a fantastic player and very clutch slightly more talented the Claude Lemieux and Tikkanen

 

[VanIslander]

John Tonelli was a fantastic player and very clutch slightly more talented the Claude Lemieux and Tikkanen

If you had said slightly more 'skilled', i'd agree.
But skill can be tested, talent is shown... and Esa Tikkanen has won over multiple fan bases on his postseason heroics. He has another gear. He WILLS HIMSELF TO GET THE PUCK AND PUT IT IN THE NET. Crudely, messily, intensely! He had a talent for ... getting it done.

The HOCKEY HALL OF FAME NEEDS GUYS LIKE ESA TIKKANEN.



Postscript: That other guy, Claude, scored a record number of playoff game winners by switching from his role checking to RISKY getting in position to score. He played no more or less intense, just decided to change his role as needed. He had more skill than Tikki. He had equal heart.

But Tikki did more with less, showed how determination and effort can be gloriously transcendent. He went onto the ice in a higher gear than everyone else in key games. He played at the most important times like a gun was put to his head: he would succeed or die trying. It was like that. Few players had that. It ain't sustainable. But he had IT. A dog sniffing the bone. It's go time. There's no tomorrow. His intensity ratcheted up. He refused to pass or go to the bench when his team had the puck and was trailing: 'give me the damn puck and i'll put it in the net' was his attitude. Coaches screamed at him until he delivered and then they stfu (two coaches in particular who do not deserve a shout out).

Note: i 'talked' to Esa when he was the player-coach (more coach than player) in South Korea early in years teaching there. (Okay, i more like yelled to him; i'll explain). I was in a Seoul roller skating hockey league, and we went to dinner afterwards usually but twice at least with me we went to Asian Hockey League games (lame Chinese and half-decent Japanese teams). I shouted "The Oilers were the best!" (Not the wittiest thing, but my adrenaline was pumped, my memory of childhood at the fore, the forum full of Koreans who had no idea how great Esa Tikkanen was!) In reply he said loudly "Hear ya!" (Or was it "Oh ya" ... i think the former but it was debated) and lifted his arm in a half wave from behind the bench.

 

[Crosby2010]

This is what I don't like about time passing by with certain players. All of the sudden you start making a case for them getting in when they never were thought of in the first place. Keith Tkachuk, well, no one thought he was going to be a Hall of Famer when he played. He had some decent peak years briefly but his overall package doesn't scream HHOF. Never did. But with his sons, especially Matthew, in the limelight and winning Cups and such people tend to have this revisionist history about him. I don't know why. He was lousy in the postseason, he finished 10th for the Hart and 14th another time. Leclair at least had a sustained peak that lasted a while. Mogilny gets the same sort of treatment. There is some Mandela Effect about him. No one seems to remember the atrocious seasons he had consecutively right in the middle of his prime. He was traded away from the Canucks because they basically wanted to get rid of him. And he was 30. But he was thought to be washed up at that time. He had a couple good years after that, but he wasted so much prime years and he was never inspiring in the playoffs. An enigma if anything. I never get why he is routinely mentioned.

Tremblay, Middleton and Fleury all come to mind with me. Barrasso was a guy that fit this thread to a tee before he got in last year. Vachon too years earlier. Tremblay is the best player not in the HHOF in my mind. The other two are possibly the best forwards not in. I like Roenick, but he was okay on the outside too, as was Turgeon. But with those two in, you can't keep them out anymore and I hate to say it but they can't keep watering down the HHOF standards at forward. Even in goal before they elected Vernon you could argue there was no one in the HHOF as a goalie that didn't deserve it.

 

[Dale53130]

This is what I don't like about time passing by with certain players. All of the sudden you start making a case for them getting in when they never were thought of in the first place. Keith Tkachuk, well, no one thought he was going to be a Hall of Famer when he played. He had some decent peak years briefly but his overall package doesn't scream HHOF. Never did. But with his sons, especially Matthew, in the limelight and winning Cups and such people tend to have this revisionist history about him. I don't know why. He was lousy in the postseason, he finished 10th for the Hart and 14th another time. Leclair at least had a sustained peak that lasted a while. Mogilny gets the same sort of treatment. There is some Mandela Effect about him. No one seems to remember the atrocious seasons he had consecutively right in the middle of his prime. He was traded away from the Canucks because they basically wanted to get rid of him. And he was 30. But he was thought to be washed up at that time. He had a couple good years after that, but he wasted so much prime years and he was never inspiring in the playoffs. An enigma if anything. I never get why he is routinely mentioned.

Tremblay, Middleton and Fleury all come to mind with me. Barrasso was a guy that fit this thread to a tee before he got in last year. Vachon too years earlier. Tremblay is the best player not in the HHOF in my mind. The other two are possibly the best forwards not in. I like Roenick, but he was okay on the outside too, as was Turgeon. But with those two in, you can't keep them out anymore and I hate to say it but they can't keep watering down the HHOF standards at forward. Even in goal before they elected Vernon you could argue there was no one in the HHOF as a goalie that didn't deserve it.

I'm all for Keith Tkachuk never making the HOF, though I'm sure he'll get in eventually because of his benchmarks (500 goals/500 assists combined with his career PMs), and as you highlighted, because of his sons' success.

My #1 issue with him, and I also hold this against Teppo Numminen (and Roenick to a degree as well), is what happened in Phoenix? Some pretty good rosters on paper, and a ton of mediocrity.

The Jets organization went with Tkachuk over Selanne in '96 - which I agreed with at the time - but they really shouldn't have in retrospect. And I don't mean from the perspective that Selanne would go on to have a greater individual career, rather from a team perspective.

Tkachuk was promoted as captain at the age of 21, and the Jets played like a bunch of meatheads in 1993-94 and 1994-95 (and beyond that period too, well into the Phoenix era frankly). I've never seen a team take so many stupid penalties, all for naught. And that should have been an indicator (overlooked by me as well) that he's not the guy to carry you to that next level. Not to mention that there was a divide (probably lopsided), between Tkachuk (and Quintal) vs Selanne. And since Tkachuk is the captain, I think that's telling about his leadership qualities. I also never cared for his reputation (locally), but I've also met a number of people who think he's "cool".

As an aside, I thought it was awesome that he scored so well on the back of his Upper Deck card, especially in relation to all of the other "Rookie Report" cards from that 1992-93 series. This probably weighed in (heavily) with my wanting to keep him over Selanne in 1996. I was hopeful that he was on a Mark Messier trajectory then.

I don't think having him, Domi, and Dave Manson (and others) on the same team, was such a great idea unless you had Mike Keenan at the helm.

 

[Crosby2010]

I'm all for Keith Tkachuk never making the HOF, though I'm sure he'll get in eventually because of his benchmarks (500 goals/500 assists combined with his career PMs), and as you highlighted, because of his sons' success.

My #1 issue with him, and I also hold this against Teppo Numminen (and Roenick to a degree as well), is what happened in Phoenix? Some pretty good rosters on paper, and a ton of mediocrity.

The Jets organization went with Tkachuk over Selanne in '96 - which I agreed with at the time - but they really shouldn't have in retrospect. And I don't mean from the perspective that Selanne would go on to have a greater individual career, rather from a team perspective.

Tkachuk was promoted as captain at the age of 21, and the Jets played like a bunch of meatheads in 1993-94 and 1994-95 (and beyond that period too, well into the Phoenix era frankly). I've never seen a team take so many stupid penalties, all for naught. And that should have been an indicator (overlooked by me as well) that he's not the guy to carry you to that next level. Not to mention that there was a divide (probably lopsided), between Tkachuk (and Quintal) vs Selanne. And since Tkachuk is the captain, I think that's telling about his leadership qualities. I also never cared for his reputation (locally), but I've also met a number of people who think he's "cool".

As an aside, I thought it was awesome that he scored so well on the back of his Upper Deck card, especially in relation to all of the other "Rookie Report" cards from that 1992-93 series. This probably weighed in (heavily) with my wanting to keep him over Selanne in 1996. I was hopeful that he was on a Mark Messier trajectory then.

View attachment 896311

I don't think having him, Domi, and Dave Manson (and others) on the same team, was such a great idea unless you had Mike Keenan at the helm.

And a lot of 1st round exits too. And these were 6 and 7 game series as well. Tkachuk was never known for scoring the timely goal. He is not the standard by any means, he is below the standard.

 

[Finster8]

Reed Larson put up some great numbers on a weak Detroit team. In a 9 year span
19G+60pts
18G+67
22G+60
27G+58
21G+60
22G+74pts
20G+62
17G+62
19G+60 not to bad

 

[Albatros]

My #1 issue with him, and I also hold this against Teppo Numminen (and Roenick to a degree as well), is what happened in Phoenix? Some pretty good rosters on paper, and a ton of mediocrity.

To be fair Numminen was playing the best hockey of his career in Phoenix, still the most reliable player in franchise history. Just wasn't really elite at anything besides that ability to do the right things all night every night.

 

[Dale53130]

To be fair Numminen was playing the best hockey of his career in Phoenix, still the most reliable player in franchise history. Just wasn't really elite at anything besides that ability to do the right things all night every night.

I love that the Jets drafted him, a great selection. No complaints there.

Numminen was too unassuming, and maybe there's a better word to use, but I'm going with that one. I never felt he had any leadership qualities. It's like he was great in a vacuum, he didn't do anything wrong, it's hard not to like the guy, yet there was something missing in the whole experience.

Even though he was very good defensively, really never making any mistakes, that never seemed to carry over to the players surrounding him. That always bothered me.

 

[Albatros]

After trading both Tkachuk and Roenick and making Numminen the captain in 2001 despite a weak roster they did have the best season since 1984/85 back in Winnipeg. The Jets gave him a letter at 25 when there were hardly any Europeans in the league wearing one. Quiet leadership leading by example, at least as a veteran could also use his authority when needed. Not unlike Nicklas Lidström but with slightly lesser hockey skills.