Player Discussion: Prospects Off Season ... including Gauthier

[ULF_55]

people can call the Goat a 3rd or 4th liner all they want, but in the end he will be our key matchup guy and always play against every teams top line, take all the critical faceoffs, and be the goto guy on the PK ...therefore he will have almost, if not more ice time than the #1C on the team, so, i'm not sure how you would be able to call him a 3rd 4th liner, when he could easily be the best defensive Centerman this team has had in the past 20~30 years.

He will have 2nd line ice time easily, and if you want to call him the 3rd line C because his line may not be as offensive, so be it, but, if he has skilled forwards flanking him, I think they still does fine at both ends of the ice.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2013e.html

Perhaps, but it is hard to suggest he was BPA at that spot since he's been left behind by players already in the NHL from his draft.

Leafs should get a NHL body, which is better than Biggs.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I wanted Gauthier, on record, so I'm hoping he turns out. Even if I wasn't on record I hope all Leafs prospects achieve their ceilings.

A Leafs Cup is more important than my personal and biased opinions.

But I really expected to see offensive improvement. Huge boy playing against almost exclusively much smaller boys and this is it for offensive improvement over 2 years?

He was my choice, but no way do I look at him as a good pick today. But then I was okay with Biggs, but not with moving up and using a 1st. and 2nd. to land him.

First round picks are so important, and what do the Leafs have to show for much of the past few years? Kadri, Rielly, Biggs, Percy, Gauthier, Nylander. Maybe Nylander and Rielly are part of a winner, the others just so much mediocre or worse.

I wanted Biggs in 2011, but just because I thought his ceiling justifed his pick. Considering we were so soft back then. A Milan Lucic type prospect was what we needed. But by no means does this mean he was a good pick. Maybe he will be useful one day. But you just do not draft for a bottom 6 player in the 1st rd.

I never wanted Gauthier, thought he was an overreaction to the blown lead in game 7. I never saw him having the offence to be a top 6 player. So in essence we wasted a pick where a free wallet could get us a bottom 6 specialist every summer. Not good value at 21.

 

[Guy Boucher]

i cant dispute that it was foolish to give up assets just to draft biggs but i have a problem when people label kids as busts or set their ceilings before they pay a single nhl game.

most nhl teams have a 23 man roster. you can only have 3 players on the first line. we need players for the 3rd and 4th line as well. generally with the leafs the problem is not that the top 2 lines have been crap, its that the bottom 6 has been crap. leafs have brutal depth. this past season was the first time that we almost had a great bottom 6. our bottom 6 was broken up because of injuries and stuff but the bottom line is most teams contending for a cup have solid depth in the bottom 6. gauthier can 100% be a solid piece for us moving forward. the question is just will he be a 4th line center or a 3rd. either way we need both. especially if a normal coach will roll 4 lines. as for biggs, he might surprise people. it think we havent seen the best from him yet. put him on a line with people that can actually play hockey and maybe something exciting will come from it.

Isn't it the job of scouts to predict ceilings and how a player will translate to the pro game? Why does scouting offend you? Or does it just offend you if it's negative about a Leaf prospect?

Given that we have 3 years of junior play from Gauthier to assess his abilities, we have a pretty decent amount of data/track-record to base our opinions off of.

I'm not sure there's any use in discussing this though, after reading you hold any reasonable hope for Biggs to become an NHLer.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I wanted Gauthier, on record, so I'm hoping he turns out. Even if I wasn't on record I hope all Leafs prospects achieve their ceilings.

A Leafs Cup is more important than my personal and biased opinions.

But I really expected to see offensive improvement. Huge boy playing against almost exclusively much smaller boys and this is it for offensive improvement over 2 years?

He was my choice, but no way do I look at him as a good pick today. But then I was okay with Biggs, but not with moving up and using a 1st. and 2nd. to land him.

First round picks are so important, and what do the Leafs have to show for much of the past few years? Kadri, Rielly, Biggs, Percy, Gauthier, Nylander. Maybe Nylander and Rielly are part of a winner, the others just so much mediocre or worse.

I think the biggest disappointment is that he is still used as the shutdown C, rather than the #1 all-situations guy. However, I'm not willing to rule this out as just coaching preference.

As so often, first professional season should be telling.

 

[Bullseye]

I mentioned Darryl Belfry before - I know about him because he worked out of my hometown before being hired on by the Leafs. I think he will have an impact on guys like Gauthier. Here is some text from David Alter's piece on the Leafs website:

"In early December, the Maple Leafs made some moves to shore up their player development. One of those was bringing in Darryl Belfry as a consultant.

Belfry’s specialty is working with some of hockey’s top talent to improve the way they tackle the game.

“During the year we track the clients and build the development model for them and to track what their success rates are in certain area,†said Belfry when he signed on. “In the off-season we now have a clear path as to what they are doing.â€

With the Maple Leafs and Marlies regular season now complete, every prospect on the roster now has Belfry at their disposal.

As part of the build, Belfry’s methods will be put to the ultimate test. Players like Patrick Kane have sworn by his methods. In some ways, it’s the analytics of body movement.

“What I do is I analyze players’ game habits and then problem solve from a skill development prospective to open up new pathways for them to perform.â€

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Literally everyone outside of this board, tied to the game of hockey, love Gauthier's game.

Given the posters on this board, and their history, I'm happy to be where I'm at on the kid. He'll just keep growing and developing his game.

 

[Cor]

Literally everyone outside of this board, tied to the game of hockey, love Gauthier's game.

Given the posters on this board, and their history, I'm happy to be where I'm at on the kid. He'll just keep growing and developing his game.

Yup. Exactly.

If Gauthier has a .3 higher PPG, everyone would be gushing over the kid.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Yup. Exactly.

If Gauthier has a .3 higher PPG, everyone would be gushing over the kid.

It's funny. People really like Carrick, who happens to be another guy who's not gonna light the lamp at the pro level, for everything he does on the defensive and forecheck. He's a hard working, lunch pail kinda guy that endears himself to fans. Gauthier is a bigger, better version of that, who doesn't skate as fast, yet people absolutely !@$% on him.

At this point, you can't re-write history. The armchair GM's here are in a rage over Freddy being picked at 21, but reality is, if you get an NHL player at 21, you've already won the battle.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It's funny. People really like Carrick, who happens to be another guy who's not gonna light the lamp at the pro level, for everything he does on the defensive and forecheck. He's a hard working, lunch pail kinda guy that endears himself to fans. Gauthier is a bigger, better version of that, who doesn't skate as fast, yet people absolutely !@$% on him.

At this point, you can't re-write history. The armchair GM's here are in a rage over Freddy being picked at 21, but reality is, if you get an NHL player at 21, you've already won the battle.

The difference is that Carrick was picked in the 5th round. If Gauthier was picked in the 5th round, people would be more than gushing about him. He would probably have been the steal of the draft. Except he was picked in the 1st round. That's what people have the biggest problem about. Nobody thinks he's going to bust. But I don't think many think he's worth that 1st round pick either.

 

[mydnyte]

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2013e.html

Perhaps, but it is hard to suggest he was BPA at that spot since he's been left behind by players already in the NHL from his draft.

Leafs should get a NHL body, which is better than Biggs.

who cares ...lets re-evaluate that in a few years.

Staal went ahead of Kessel, and had a great 1st season, then flopped down to earth.

Staal is a great shutdown Center, and has below average offense and has become a 40 point center.

That may be a high expectation for Gauthier (40 points) ...but, he also may have better defensive acumen than J Staal, and wasnt a #2 overall draft pick.

Couts is my favorite comparison, as Gauthier has been praised as having better defensive ability, and Couts has never even hit 40 points in the NHL, and he was a #8 pick, and Philly loves him and he holds almost as much value on the team as Giroux.

Btw, if Gauthier becomes a Staal/Couts like center, and only scores a max of 30-40 points, he is a slam dunk, a home run, and a star pick where we grabbed him.

He would also be one of our most untouchable core pieces going forward.

Only 4 players drafted in the 1st round after Gauthier have even touched NHL ice, and neither has HFboard favorite Mantha, and to me, Mantha looks like a bust, not, Gauthier.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

The difference is that Carrick was picked in the 5th round. If Gauthier was picked in the 5th round, people would be more than gushing about him. He would probably have been the steal of the draft. Except he was picked in the 1st round. That's what people have the biggest problem about. Nobody thinks he's going to bust. But I don't think many think he's worth that 1st round pick either.

That draft wasn't the best to begin with, and we got an NHL level player at 21, who is poised to play a key role on the big club moving forward. I just don't understand the complaining.

Was he going to be available in the 2nd round? 3rd round? He was picked where he was ranked.

 

[91Kadri91*]

It's funny. People really like Carrick, who happens to be another guy who's not gonna light the lamp at the pro level, for everything he does on the defensive and forecheck. He's a hard working, lunch pail kinda guy that endears himself to fans. Gauthier is a bigger, better version of that, who doesn't skate as fast, yet people absolutely !@$% on him.

At this point, you can't re-write history. The armchair GM's here are in a rage over Freddy being picked at 21, but reality is, if you get an NHL player at 21, you've already won the battle.

Eh, there's plenty of people who either don't like Carrick, or don't believe he's going to be part of the Leafs' future.

I'm a vocal proponent of both, and I think both will be valuable components to a successful, contending team in the future, I just think you're overestimating how many Carrick fans there are. In fact, I would argue that many of the Carrick fans are also Gauthier fans (like myself).

 

[ULF_55]

Literally everyone outside of this board, tied to the game of hockey, love Gauthier's game.

Given the posters on this board, and their history, I'm happy to be where I'm at on the kid. He'll just keep growing and developing his game.

He was top 3 defensive player in the Q as a rookie.

He won the award this year.

If he was already a top 3 defensive player when he was drafted what has changed in 2 subsequent years?

Season|Games|Goals|Assists|Points|PPG
2012-13|62|22|38|60|0.97
2013-14|54|18|34|52|0.96
2014-15|37|16|16|32|0.86

 

[FreeBird]

Go look at the draft and with hindsight there are only 1 or 2 guys in the first and second better right now. You can't use hindsight when your drafting. He was a safe pick, when the draft had thinned right out. It wasn't a great draft, it happens.

Biggs, Percy not a good draft, Gauthier was considered a deep draft.

 

[LaPlante94]

Eh, there's plenty of people who either don't like Carrick, or don't believe he's going to be part of the Leafs' future.

I'm a vocal proponent of both, and I think both will be valuable components to a successful, contending team in the future, I just think you're overestimating how many Carrick fans there are. In fact, I would argue that many of the Carrick fans are also Gauthier fans (like myself).

Love Carrick. Love the energy he brings every shift. He has me out of my seat thinking I'm laying people out while watching him. Good thing I don't watch games at bars. Him and Komarov would be a nightmare for defenders.

 

[FreeBird]

The difference is that Carrick was picked in the 5th round. If Gauthier was picked in the 5th round, people would be more than gushing about him. He would probably have been the steal of the draft. Except he was picked in the 1st round. That's what people have the biggest problem about. Nobody thinks he's going to bust. But I don't think many think he's worth that 1st round pick either.

The trouble is that our scouts under the Burke, Nonis regime and before picked two many 1st rounders with 5th round talent. All of which has one common theme, Morrison.

 

[LaPlante94]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=767427

Don't know if this was posted. Figured this is still a Marlies thread.

 

[BlueBaron]

The trouble is that our scouts under the Burke, Nonis regime and before picked two many 1st rounders with 5th round talent. All of which has one common theme, Morrison.

Other than Biggs who are you talking about ? Percy and Gauthier ? if so, you are seriously underrating them.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=767427

Don't know if this was posted. Figured this is still a Marlies thread.

Didn't make any sense for us to be in the West, so this is good. Pbly less travel.

 

[kilgro]

Gauthier first star with the game winning goal and 16/26 on the draws

 

[WTFMAN99]

Gauthier first star with the game winning goal and 16/26 on the draws

Doubling his goal totals in 1 night! What a stud

 

[ChrisCall]

Doubling his goal totals in 1 night! What a stud

My sarcasm detector just exploded.

Seriously though, while Gauthier may never be as good a player as big Joe or Adam Oates, i make the comparison simply because both are players who always put up far more assists than goals. If anything can be learned from david clarkson it is that 30 goals is not that great along side 5 assists. Gauthier makes plays. He will make his line mates better players, but he will also need talented line mates in order to be effective.

Watching his junior play is a clear indication of this. His line mates are no where near NHL level.

 

[FlareKnight]

Gauthier first star with the game winning goal and 16/26 on the draws

Good on him. Helped his team win and now they have that series tied up. Still a good chance to win that series. Hoping for the best there.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

I would love to see Erie win the O, Rimouski the Q, and Brandon wing the Dub.

Lots of futures playing in the Mem. Cup makes for solid entertainment.

 

[weems]

who cares ...lets re-evaluate that in a few years.

Staal went ahead of Kessel, and had a great 1st season, then flopped down to earth.

Staal is a great shutdown Center, and has below average offense and has become a 40 point center.

That may be a high expectation for Gauthier (40 points) ...but, he also may have better defensive acumen than J Staal, and wasnt a #2 overall draft pick.

Couts is my favorite comparison, as Gauthier has been praised as having better defensive ability, and Couts has never even hit 40 points in the NHL, and he was a #8 pick, and Philly loves him and he holds almost as much value on the team as Giroux.

Btw, if Gauthier becomes a Staal/Couts like center, and only scores a max of 30-40 points, he is a slam dunk, a home run, and a star pick where we grabbed him.

He would also be one of our most untouchable core pieces going forward.

Only 4 players drafted in the 1st round after Gauthier have even touched NHL ice, and neither has HFboard favorite Mantha, and to me, Mantha looks like a bust, not, Gauthier.

This is such BS