Player Discussion: Danny DeKeyser

[Henkka]

Monster game today from DeKeyser. He was beast on there against Montreal.

 

[Leronziia]

Should've had an assist.

Unlucky.

 

[Pavels Dog]

It's strange how players start to look better individually when the team as a whole is playing better.

 

[Leronziia]

A little bit of the opposite also.

 

[Frk It]

Monster game today from DeKeyser. He was beast on there against Montreal.

based on....?

 

[TheMule93]

based on....?

Its well known that November 26th is opposite day, duh!

 

[SoupGuru]

I guess I don't know what people expect of their defensemen outside of scoring a lot of goals, apparently.

 

[obey86]

I guess I don't know what people expect of their defensemen outside of scoring a lot of goals, apparently.

ability to play defense, ability to move the puck up the ice, ability to move the puck out of the zone, ability to skate the puck out of the zone, ability to keep the puck in the offensive zone, the ability to help the team produce goals when in the offensive zone, ability to run a PP, ability to PK, ability to win puck battles in the corner, ability to play physical, etc etc

does that help?

 

[PelagicJoe]

I like DDK, but I also feel he is overpaid by at least 1 mil.

 

[SoupGuru]

ability to play defense, ability to move the puck up the ice, ability to move the puck out of the zone, ability to skate the puck out of the zone, ability to keep the puck in the offensive zone, the ability to help the team produce goals when in the offensive zone, ability to run a PP, ability to PK, ability to win puck battles in the corner, ability to play physical, etc etc

does that help?

Lidstrom retired, dude

 

[obey86]

Lidstrom retired, dude

I guess i'm not understanding what your point was from the previous post then.

 

[SoupGuru]

I guess i'm not understanding what your point was from the previous post then.

I seems to me that to a bunch of posters here that anyone that isn't Lidstrom-level good is an awful defenseman. It's tiring.

DeKeyser is pretty fricking good in his own zone. He has is our best defenseman. He's not flashy. He does most of the little things right.

Honestly, I watch these games and watch him in particular, hoping that I can see why people are calling him awful. I don't see it. I see a guy playing really good defense. I see a guy that makes his partner better. I see a guy getting the puck back and jumpstarting the breakout with smart passes.

Basically, DeKeyser fits all but a couple of those items on your list - mainly the offensive ones. But that's not good enough for you.

 

[ap3x]

Last game aside, not sure which DDK you see playing this season.

 

[Henkka]

I seems to me that to a bunch of posters here that anyone that isn't Lidstrom-level good is an awful defenseman. It's tiring.

DeKeyser is pretty fricking good in his own zone. He has is our best defenseman. He's not flashy. He does most of the little things right.

Honestly, I watch these games and watch him in particular, hoping that I can see why people are calling him awful. I don't see it. I see a guy playing really good defense. I see a guy that makes his partner better. I see a guy getting the puck back and jumpstarting the breakout with smart passes.

Basically, DeKeyser fits all but a couple of those items on your list - mainly the offensive ones. But that's not good enough for you.

People will blaim DeKeyser, because he has bad looking "advanced" stats. (which are 50% crap, imo, when analyzing individuals) Corsi is a team stat, period.

His CorsiFor% is weak, because he playes every night against best players.

It was really funny against Montreal, when Smith did got injured, the normal line matching ended, and Wings started rotating 5 defencemen. DeKeyser suddenly started getting shifts against easier players and it kicked his offence instantly in.

And he played probably his best game of the season.

Playing against best opposite players, every night, every shift is not easy duty. He rarely looks good because of that. But NO ONE CAN DO THAT JOB BETTER, from out team. Period. We lose more games, if somebody else is put against those TOP opposite players. Period. Everybody remembers how Ericsson sucked on the shut-down pari, and now HE LOOKS REAL GOOD on 3rd pair, AGAINST EASIER OPPONENTS.

It just goes that way on nowadays hockey, and people have to understand those facts WHCH WILL MATTER, who plays against whom. Period. Understand line matching.

 

[obey86]

I seems to me that to a bunch of posters here that anyone that isn't Lidstrom-level good is an awful defenseman. It's tiring.

DeKeyser is pretty fricking good in his own zone. He has is our best defenseman. He's not flashy. He does most of the little things right.

Honestly, I watch these games and watch him in particular, hoping that I can see why people are calling him awful. I don't see it. I see a guy playing really good defense. I see a guy that makes his partner better. I see a guy getting the puck back and jumpstarting the breakout with smart passes.

Basically, DeKeyser fits all but a couple of those items on your list - mainly the offensive ones. But that's not good enough for you.

Offense is 50% of the game....so it's pretty darn important, I love how you just dismiss it like it doesn't matter. Players who are only good at half of the game don't deserve $5 million/year. Also, he hasn't even been good on his supposed good side (playing in his own zone) this year.

Add it all up and you have a defender who has no positive effect on the offensive side of the equation and is also greatly struggling in his own zone and it's no surprise so many people are complaining about this guy, who now has a $5 million cap hit.

 

[obey86]

People will blaim DeKeyser, because he has bad looking "advanced" stats.

His CorsiFor% is weak, because he playes every night against best players.

It was really funny against Montreal, when Smith did got injured, the normal line matching ended. DeKeyser suddenly started getting shifts against easier players and it kicked his offence instantly in.

And he played probably his best game of the season.

Playing against best opposite players, every night, every shift is not easy duty. He rarely looks good because of that. But NO ONE CAN DO THAT JB BETTER. We lose more games, if somebody else is put against those TOP opposite players. Everybody remembers how Ericsson sucked on the shut-down pari, and now HE LOOKS REAL GOOD on 3rd pari, AGAINST EASIER OPPONENTS.

It just goes that way on nowadays hockey, and people have to understand those fact THAT MATTER, who plays against whom. Understand line matching.

I'm so sick of hearing people say this. People need to stop acting like performing extremely poorly against good competition is a GOOD thing. It's not. People try to use the "he's performing terribly, but he's playing good players!" angle as a positive for DeKeyser. Put me out there, and I could suck against good players too.

Regardless, numerous studies have shown that quality of competition over the course of an entire season has a negligible effect on Corsi. Dekeyser has played against opponents with a combined CF% of 51.1% this season. The supposed sheltered Ryan Sproul has played against opponents with a combined CF% of 50.5%. That's a difference of 0.6%. Hardly a drastic enough difference to kill DeKeyser's CF% relative to the rest of the team. Not even bringing up the fact that DeKeyser is paired with the best defenseman on the team, Green, while someone like Sproul has been paired with Smith or Ericsson most of the season.

 

[Henkka]

I'm so sick of hearing people say this. People need to stop acting like performing extremely poorly against good competition is a GOOD thing. It's not. People try to use the "he's performing terribly, but he's playing good players!" angle as a positive for DeKeyser. Put me out there, and I could suck against good players too.

It's not positive thing, those numbers are just inflated. People should not be looking on them at all if they don't understand the context.

Alexander Ovechkin shoots against DeKeyser a lot and shoots against Ericsson even more. That guy who is selected to play against Ovechkin, will always have worst looking shot distribution, whoever it ever is in any team.

 

[SoupGuru]

Offense is 50% of the game....so it's pretty darn important, I love how you just dismiss it like it doesn't matter. Players who are only good at half of the game don't deserve $5 million/year. Also, he hasn't even been good on his supposed good side (playing in his own zone) this year.

Add it all up and you have a defender who has no positive effect on the offensive side of the equation and is also greatly struggling in his own zone and it's no surprise so many people are complaining about this guy, who now has a $5 million cap hit.

These are the things I take issue with. I admit that his offense hasn't been as good this year but I can't see where he's struggling a whole lot in his own zone.

 

[Frk It]

If anyone that watches this team regularly thinks that Mike Green isn't our best defenseman by a fairly large gap, I really don't know what to tell you.

 

[obey86]

These are the things I take issue with. I admit that his offense hasn't been as good this year but I can't see where he's struggling a whole lot in his own zone.

I only watched like half the game last night and I wasn't even really paying attention and I saw a bad icing from DeKeyser and 3-4 times he failed to get the puck out of his own zone with bad passes or decisions despite not being pressured.

And this was his supposed best game of the season according to everyone here. He's been doing this stuff all season. It's a major problem and a major reason why the Wings get hemmed in their own zone so much with him on the ice.

 

[Frk It]

I could be remembering incorrectly, but didn't Dekeyser have an awful turnover in his own end last that that should have resulted in a goal and Mrazek bailed him out? Or was that Saturday night?

He also defended a 2 on 1 pretty poorly last night, believe it resulted with Weber ringing one off the post.

I've seen Dekeyser be better in his own zone and break the puck out much better in seaons past. I'm not really sure why he is getting such a pass on this season. Or if people are just remembering one or two good plays while disregarding the other stuff. I think he has been pretty bad, and virtually every metric that exists out there says so as well.

 

[obey86]

I could be remembering incorrectly, but didn't Dekeyser have an awful turnover in his own end last that that should have resulted in a goal and Mrazek bailed him out? Or was that Saturday night?

He also defended a 2 on 1 pretty poorly last night, believe it resulted with Weber ringing one off the post.

I've seen Dekeyser be better in his own zone and break the puck out much better in seaons past. I'm not really sure why he is getting such a pass on this season. Or if people are just remembering one or two good plays while disregarding the other stuff. I think he has been pretty bad, and virtually every metric that exists out there says so as well.

I wasn't watching the game at the time, but IIRC I did see someone mention on twitter that it was DeKeyser who was responsible for when Mrazek had to make that great save last night. I didn't personally see the whole play though, I just saw the replay of the great save.

EDIT: Yep, it was Dekyser responsible for that. First replay of the game. Dekeyser is slow to do anything with the puck and it gets stolen from him from behind which leads to the scoring chance and save by Mrazek. https://www.nhl.com/video/recap-mtl-2-det-1-fot/t-283192690/c-46773603

 

[Henkka]

I could be remembering incorrectly, but didn't Dekeyser have an awful turnover in his own end last that that should have resulted in a goal and Mrazek bailed him out? Or was that Saturday night?

He also defended a 2 on 1 pretty poorly last night, believe it resulted with Weber ringing one off the post.

I've seen Dekeyser be better in his own zone and break the puck out much better in seaons past. I'm not really sure why he is getting such a pass on this season. Or if people are just remembering one or two good plays while disregarding the other stuff. I think he has been pretty bad, and virtually every metric that exists out there says so as well.

He looked better on those days, when Kronwall-Ericsson was the shut-down pair. And then everybody was throwing those two on the fire.

Now DeKeyser carries the shut-down load and everybody else on other pairs look better and people are wondering why doesn't he look good anymore.

This same debate just goes around and around when roles change. 3rd pair defencemen look great on some stats and oh boy, they look shiny new toy and those shut-down guys "look so ugly".

Funniest thing has been Winging it in Motown guys praising Smith how he should get more ice-time etc. crap. When he is clearly the worst defenceman of our group and will be gone on Free agency after this season and no one cries after.

 

[obey86]

He looked better on those days, when Kronwall-Ericsson was the shut-down pair. And then everybody was throwing those two on the fire.

Now DeKeyser carries the shut-down load and everybody else on other pairs look better and people are wondering why doesn't he look good anymore.

This same debate just goes around and around when roles change. 3rd pair defencemen look great on some stats and oh boy, they look shiny new toy and those shut-down guys "look so ugly".

Funniest thing has been Winging it in Motown guys praising Smith how he should get more ice-time etc. crap. When he is clearly the worst defenceman of our group and will be gone on Free agency after this season and no one cries after.

Dekeyser making unforced errors in the defensive zone and being generally incompetent offensively have absolutely nothing to do with quality of competition. It's an excuse people use because it's the easy go to excuse. The dude's getting paid $5 million a year to play at a high level.

If he can't handle the supposed tough competition without looking like a dumpster fire than he should give some money back so he's more appropriately paid.

 

[Henkka]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1q4VrVqT940wR2V_qhhCxR5h9HDQqcTmnwINkfIRtUcw/edit#gid=0

Just look at in here.

I trust these BinCooking eye-tested statistics more than any other "advanced" crap stats there's now available, and people are freaking out when they don't understand where those numbers come from. Those will match almost perfectly, what I see on the ice every night.

Green has been our best defenceman of TOP4 defencemen, with best relative value. DeKeyser does also decent job, under most shut-down pressure. Green hasn't been all season at shut-down duties, but mostly on it recently.

Kronwall and Ericsson are having second hardest duties and are doing well. All (except Smith) of 3rd pair defencemen like Ouellet and Sproul are doing best, because they have easiest matchups. not because they are best players. Marchenko has negative stats, because at start of the season, when he was tried at shut-down pair, and that was too much for him.

Smith just sucks most and does it against easiest matchups. That's most alarming thing you can imagine for defenceman ever, anywhere. He should be put on the pressbox for the rest of the contract.