GWT: PL Matchweek 26 - Zack Snyder Extended Cut

[bleedblue1223]

Not giving a red card for that kick is the most insane thing this season. Completely defies explanation.

Then in the post-match slabhead said he kicked Bats so that he didn't fall on top of him.

LOL, he literally admits to doing it.

 

[Jussi]

Looks like Anthony Taylor hates all teams: https://ilovemanchester.com/why-man...-news-for-united-and-good-news-for-liverpool/

 

[Jussi]

The only good thing about VAR is that when it disappears fans and pundits will accept that refs make mistakes.

In my opinion VAR came around because pundits spent so much time complaining about decisions. It became a spiral impossible to get out of. Refs have always been talked about, but not like they have the last 5-10 years.

Yeah - I know VAR won´t go away, but I like to be the naive optimist at times.

Never. In any sport.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

The only good thing about VAR is that when it disappears fans and pundits will accept that refs make mistakes.

In my opinion VAR came around because pundits spent so much time complaining about decisions. It became a spiral impossible to get out of. Refs have always been talked about, but not like they have the last 5-10 years.

Yeah - I know VAR won´t go away, but I like to be the naive optimist at times.

This is not VAR problem this is clear decision making and inconsistencies from decision maker. That is a definite red no mater what. It makes even a stronger case when you compare to Son red card. What make one different than the other. That is beyond absurd.

 

[Havre]

This is not VAR problem this is clear decision making and inconsistencies from decision maker. That is a definite red no mater what. It makes even a stronger case when you compare to Son red card. What make one different than the other. That is beyond absurd.

Decision will rarely be 100% one or the other way.

And it is not like refs are not better than the average fan at actually reffing games. Even so they, in my opinion, clearly keep on making silly mistakes. So we might call it whatever we want, VAR or decision making issue, but I still believe in the spirit of the game one can more easily accept a "honest" mistake on the pitch than all this nonsense.

And I believe, if football exists, that in the future reffing will be done 100% by "AI" or whatever we would want to call it. Have sensors and cameras that can pick up if someone is being touched etc. The technology will be there at some point - so I´m not against technology, but right now something that isn´t ready is being used.

 

[Savant]

Looks like Anthony Taylor hates all teams: Why Manc referee Anthony Taylor is bad news for United and good news for Liverpool - I Love Manchester

No. He is just a lousy ref.

I think Most of the PL Refs are from Manchester

I don’t know whats worse a Pro-United fan site has a article revolved around everyone thinking Taylor is bad to deflect that he may (or may not) favor them, OR if it’s worse that you had the article handy and available for the occasion

 

[Jussi]

No. He is just a lousy ref.

I think Most of the PL Refs are from Manchester

I don’t know whats worse a Pro-United fan site has a article revolved around everyone thinking Taylor is bad to deflect that he may (or may not) favor them, OR if it’s worse that you had the article handy and available for the occasion

Because typing "terrible call by anthony taylor against united" into google produced several results and clicking the first one, which took about 10 seconds, thus proving I'm not lazy like an average HFBoards assclown, I have the article ready for some reason...

 

[Savant]

Because typing "terrible call by anthony taylor against united" into google produced several results and clicking the first one, which took about 10 seconds, thus proving I'm not lazy like an average HFBoards assclown, I have the article ready for some reason...

Okay.
How about this though. This article is from the year 2016. So people have thought Taylor was pro-United, enough to write an article to dispel/call attention to it for at least 4 years give or take.

nothing has changed since 2016(!) to make people think differently of Taylor.

 

[Jussi]

Okay.
How about this though. This article is from the year 2016. So people have thought Taylor was pro-United, enough to write an article to dispel/call attention to it for at least 4 years give or take.

nothing has changed since 2016(!) to make people think differently of Taylor.

The point was that Taylor is a terrible ref, period. Not that he favors anyone.

 

[Savant]

The point was that Taylor is a terrible ref, period. Not that he favors anyone.

He is a terrible ref and he keeps getting high profile games. The only good ref in the league is Oliver. It’s ridiculous Maguire wasn’t sent off. It doesn’t mean there is a conspiracy theory but either way Manchester Refs should not ref Manchester teams.

 

[Havre]

Not sure why Taylor is getting the hate. He didn´t see Maguire. Fair enough if you ask me. To give a red card based on what you see on the pitch for that one is almost impossible. He didn´t disallow Zouma´s goal - so he wasn´t the problem. The offside obviously has nothing to do with Taylor.

So what was the problem?

Not that I particularly like him, but saying there is only one good ref in the league might want some people to reevaluate the standard refs are evaluated by.

 

[SSF]

Well that first argument would be fine if there wasn't a monitor available pitch side for him. His arrogance and that of all PL refs thus far is to not utilize the monitor.


The Zouma goal he could have allowed also, he just chose not to override VAR. Again, he could have gone over to pitchside but didnt.

He is incompetent and arrogant, which are two awful traits for a referee. The reason he is so hated is that he exhibits these traits multiple times a match.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Not sure why Taylor is getting the hate. He didn´t see Maguire. Fair enough if you ask me. To give a red card based on what you see on the pitch for that one is almost impossible. He didn´t disallow Zouma´s goal - so he wasn´t the problem. The offside obviously has nothing to do with Taylor.

So what was the problem?

Not that I particularly like him, but saying there is only one good ref in the league might want some people to reevaluate the standard refs are evaluated by.

Well that is the point of VAR correct? To rectify calls that weren't correctly made.

 

[Havre]

Well that is the point of VAR correct? To rectify calls that weren't correctly made.

Not sure if I get your point? Taylor actually got the biggest call correct by allowing Zouma's goal.

As for the point of VAR I think that is difficult to understand. I think that it is set up by weak people with limited understanding of football and basic human physiology. It is like one of those power point presentations that look right until you actually start to think about what the boxes mean.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Not sure if I get your point? Taylor actually got the biggest call correct by allowing Zouma's goal.

As for the point of VAR I think that is difficult to understand. I think that it is set up by weak people with limited understanding of football and basic human physiology. It is like one of those power point presentations that look right until you actually start to think about what the boxes mean.

You were saying how can he make a call he didn't see and that's correct. But that is where VAR is supposed to step in and make the correct call.

 

[AngloHab]

VAR and its implementation is an absolute shambles.

How the f*** can the Zouma goal be chalked off when Azpilicueta was fouled before he fell into the Utd player? The only reason why Azpilicueta even touched him was because he was pushed.

Maguire kicked Bats in the bollocks and the VAR review was to determine if it was violent conduct and it deemed that it wasn't. How can kicking someone studs up not be violent conduct by any reasonable definition?

If the objective of VAR is to ensure that more calls are made correctly then it failed miserably. Its a joke of a system with no consistency and seemingly arbitrary applications. Sons carbon copy kick on Rudy was a red and Maguires wasn't. What was the difference? There wasn't any.

 

[AngloHab]

While according to the rules that shouldn't count, none of us thought that VAR would be used to disallow offside goals that are offside by that amount.

I agree. The issue is that if you are going to call those offside decisions as tight and as forensically as that you have to get the other patently obvious calls right.

You can't disallow Giroud's goal based on an offside that was not apparent in real time to the naked eye and then give Mcguire a pass for an obvious piece of intentional violent play.

Either you are committed to making sure that the match is officiated as close to 100% perfect or you scrap VAR and live with human error. You can't have it both ways.

 

[hatterson]

Getting upset at the one call VAR got objectively right, and did so in a timely manner, is odd.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Does the league comment about officiating error or they will let it go under the rug and wait until it goes away?

 

[maclean]

Getting upset at the one call VAR got objectively right, and did so in a timely manner, is odd.

I don't think it necessarily is. The Coach's Challenge for offsides was already brought up - if you have to do it millisecond by millisecond, is it really offside? It's one thing to take a frame and a ruler a measure that his foot was ahead, but they are also correlating the ball leaving the foot, with every player in movement. If the human eye can't tell in realtime, how is a player actually supposed to make sure he's onside? I wasn't really watching the game very closely and don't particularly care, but my own feeling was it was a waste even sending either of those for review.

 

[Havre]

You were saying how can he make a call he didn't see and that's correct. But that is where VAR is supposed to step in and make the correct call.

Context here is Taylor getting criticized - which I don't get.

Criticising VAR after that game is another thing.

 

[hatterson]

I don't think it necessarily is. The Coach's Challenge for offsides was already brought up - if you have to do it millisecond by millisecond, is it really offside? It's one thing to take a frame and a ruler a measure that his foot was ahead, but they are also correlating the ball leaving the foot, with every player in movement. If the human eye can't tell in realtime, how is a player actually supposed to make sure he's onside? I wasn't really watching the game very closely and don't particularly care, but my own feeling was it was a waste even sending either of those for review.

There have been plenty of examples this year of offside plays that VAR shouldn’t overturn.

There’ve been a couple of armpit vs arm debates, some where they had to zoom in and try to divine which pixel is the one that counts, cases where a player moved further than the offside margin in a single frame, etc. Plays where the current technology isn’t capable of delivering an objectively correct decision.

This wasn’t one of those.

He was offside for a frame or two before the one it counts on (first frame the ball is on the foot), he’s well outside any reasonable “grey area” that might exist based on image quality, and there’s no debate over where the line should be.

When you have video review, he’s clearly offside:

The only argument about it would be if you’re arguing frame by frame should never be used for offside, which is a different argument and something that no league has chosen when implementing VAR. In every league that has VAR, that’s offside.

I totally get being upset at VAR (Kavanaugh really since they were his decisions) for the other two calls, but being mad at VAR for the offside is just being salty.

 

[hatterson]

Also in regards to Taylor not going to the monitor, part of that is the way England has set up VAR.

In the PL VAR is set up so the off field official looks for a “clear and obvious error” in subjective calls (fouls, etc). That involves a conversation between the VAR official and the on field official.

For the Maguire incident, likely what Taylor told VAR is that he saw Maguire got over and straighten his legs as he was finishing his slide as opposed to an actual kick out. Kavanaugh determined that it wasn’t a clear and obvious error to call that a straightening of the leg versus a kick, thus the call stood.

For the goal, he likely said he saw contact between Azpi and Williams, but thought it was routine contact going for a head that the stronger player won. VAR determined that was a clear and obvious error since Azpi put his hands on Williams back and pushed off to give himself leverage to jump (thus preventing Williams from jumping). Taylor also likely said he saw contact between Fred and Azpi, but it wasn’t enough for a penalty. Given the standards the PL has repeatedly called for defender on attacker contact on a corner, that’s correct. What Fred did isn’t out of the ordinary for a corner.

You can definitely disagree with both of those, but in both it’s not a case of Taylor making a mistake or being too bull headed to look at the monitor, it’s a case of VAR basically making the call because of the way England have set it up.

 

[Jussi]

Bailly started shaky but warmed up and began to show the elements where he is vastly superior to Lindelöf, ie. physicality and air battles.

 

[hatterson]

Bailly started shaky but warmed up and began to show the elements where he is vastly superior to Lindelöf, ie. physicality and air battles.

The issue with Bailly has never been ability (at least outside a small stretch at the beginning of last year) it's been injuries.

*If* he could stay healthy he has the ability to be a top tier PL defender, but that's a massive if.