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GWT: PL Matchweek 17

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Evilo said:
Herrera had some excellent seasons.
Lukaku banged 30 goals.
Mata was always a good EPL player.
Sanchez was briliant for years in the EPL.
Pogba was brilliant in the WC.
Most people 18 months ago would have signed Martial over Salah.

Again, coaching has a huge impact on how players perform. When all perform well, especially well over their previous standards, the coach is likely excellent.
When all players suck, especially compared to previous seasons, the coach is likely awful.
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Still significantly less talented than the rest of the current top 4.
 
They’re better than they showed, but not as good as teams they want to get in front.

That back line is trash. Their midfield doesn’t have the parts to do what is best for Pogba.

Some of those players you’re talking about being good haven’t been in form for a season or so. Some might never be good again.
 
It's true. Even with Firmino and Milner on the team Robertson blows me away with how much he seems to run.
 
Also young players continue to improve after having great seasons elsewhere. Breaking news.
 
Chimaera said:
They’re better than they showed, but not as good as teams they want to get in front.

That back line is trash. Their midfield doesn’t have the parts to do what is best for Pogba.

Some of those players you’re talking about being good haven’t been in form for a season or so. Some might never be good again.
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That's the whole point isn't it?

Which United player is on form?
Why is it that every single one of their player is underachieving individually? Which United player is having better seasons under Mourinho than under other coaches?

OTOH, which Liverpool player has had worst years under Klopp than before in his career? Of City players for that matter?

I don't know what's so hard to understand here. Same with Napoli. Under their last two coaches, their players who seemed very pedestrian except for a few have had career years and made the most of their talents.

This is NOT a coincidence.
 
Look at all the space United left in the midfield before the 3-1 goal. Matic is pretty much by himself. World class defending by United right there

 
I had a day of travel today. Let's just say I was not to pleased to come off the plane and see that Arsenal's unbeaten streak was ended by Southampton.....
 
I've developed a bit of a reputation on HF for just hating coaches but that's bullshit.

I adore Jurgen Klopp.
 
Stray Wasp said:
Or Mike Phelan, who surely doesn't deserve to be judged purely on a few games with Hull.

Mind, I think we shouldn't overlook the compelling case to be made for Alan Pardew.
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Waspy if you haven't written a book yet or at least in progress of writing a book... it's an injustice. The way you write is too captivating not to.
 
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At the end of the day it's pretty simple situation to assess. Yes, Mourinho clearly didn't get the players he wanted this Summer. Who knows whether the players that have been signed during his tenure are his players? Yes, the board is in part responsible for this situation. Still the problem with that is that Mourinho still isn't doing well with the players he has. Consider:

De Gea
Bailly
Matic
Herrera
Mata
Pogba
Sanchez
Martial
Lukaku

Whatever you think of those players there are plenty of other managers who would be getting more out of them. Like has been said here numerous times, guys like Guardiola and Klopp would obviously getting so much more of those players. Were I a United supporter I'd want Mourinho sacked immediately. I wouldn't even be much fussed about who they brought in so long as they line up a good manager by the start of next season.

Jussi said:
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And? Neville contradicts himself and clearly can't separate his love for United and accurately commenting on Mourinho. Keane's examples of Guardiola and Klopp don't really hold much water not to mention his reference of Mourinho at Madrid. Carragher is the one who makes sense here. United's problem isn't just a CB and if one can't separate United's off the pitch management with Mourinho's management then they don't know what they're talking about.
 
I mean, Guardiola and Klopp would be getting more out of some of these players, but they probably also wouldn't stand for Woodward more or less bungling transfers.

I think Jose's a big part of the problem, but I also think some of the players they have aren't worth much or don't fit what they're trying to do. Many have talent, but look at their backline. It's awful. Awful. Even if players were all fit, they're not starting more than one player who would play for any other top 4-5 side in the back. Their midfield has too many passengers or mismatched parts. Lukaku has ability, but how you're going to have to play for him means you're setting up like West Ham more than United. I won't even get into the bungling that is the wing/attacking players, as they're all over the place. Throw in DDG taking a slight step back, to be fair, and not carrying them when they make mistakes, and it wouldn't completely matter if they get Pep. Pep would improve their play, but he wouldn't put them in the top 4.
 
Chimaera said:
At the expense of who?

City, Spurs and Liverpool are better. When Hazard is doing his thing, Chelsea probably are as well.
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Yeah people are really delusional about this because they have such a hate on for Mourinho. United are not better than any of those 4 and I would say Arsenal also have more talent on their roster.

He did very well to have them 2nd last season (and had a lot of luck). They're just not that good of a team.
 
I mean, Pep is the best manager in the game, and he certainly would improve the side, but even boss Pogba (which despite some recent revision about the WC, he's not been that great this year, or at least not what makes him worth millions. I don't really want to get into that discussion, but I don't see Kante there to help him be what he should) under Pep can't really fix what is a mediocre backline.
 
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