Friedman: Pittsburgh wants Buffalo’s NHL ready prospects

[The Hockey Tonk Man]

Does Dubas even know what he wants to do at this point?

Pittsburgh is not contending for a Cup and is not a few NHL ready prospects away from doing so. That team needs a complete teardown and rebuild.

He's trying to speed up the rebuild a few years I guess?

Not sure why the Sabres would be interested in giving away their prospects tho

 

[John Mandalorian]

This suddenly has the feel of wild kingdom...like Adams is a female tiger protecting her cubs from a wolf.

 

[Team Cozens]

On a rebuilding team? Neither the missing piece to turn this around….

If I were a Buffalo fan I’d imagine the first round is the highlight of the year. Trading one of their NHL ready prospects (who are we talking about anyways?) would like wasting a year all to get Glass or Rakell….

Wrong way to look at it.

Adding veteran leadership like a Rakell is needed to move the needle now even if they aren't a playoff team this year. Jason Zucker was a fantastic add and the young players are raving about his work ethic. More of that is needed. Rakell and a Karlsson at 50% would be of interest to me.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Is Kyle gonna go full Arnie in T1? "Your NHL ready prospects. Give them to me! Now!"

 

[57special]

Wrong way to look at it.

Adding veteran leadership like a Rakell is needed to move the needle now even if they aren't a playoff team this year. Jason Zucker was a fantastic add and the young players are raving about his work ethic. More of that is needed. Rakell and a Karlsson at 50% would be of interest to me.

He is the last guy that BUF should add.

 

[Team Cozens]

He's been GM for a year and a half. Since that time, he has traded for EK65, who is now rumored to be on the block, and signed Jarry, who he has since waived.

He knows what he wants to do, though?

Was Rutger McGroarty one of those NHL ready players he was looking for?

Has Jarry really been that bad or has he been waived which helps facilities a trade to a team he might not want to go to.... I haven't checked if he has trade protection.

He is the last guy that BUF should add.

Why do the Wild want him??? LOL

 

[Zman5778]

Doesn't Samuelsson play RD as well? I was figuring they'd be running with Pettersson-Dahlin and Power-Samuelsson as their top-4 D group.

That actually brings up an interesting follow-up thought. I was going to suggest that the Sabres move Samuelsson to open up a 2nd pair RD spot, but would Buffalo move Samuelsson in a Pettersson deal? I'm not sure how highly Samuelsson is valued right now, but the Penguins have nothing on LD beyond Pickering and want to continue adding young talent. If Samuelsson isn't panning out for Buffalo, I could definitely see him being attractive to the Penguins.

Something like Samuelsson and Rosen for Pettersson with an extension would make sense if Buffalo is down on Samuelsson. This wouldn't require Buffalo to have a follow-up move with Byram although I still think they should look into it.

Samuelsson is a bit of an enigma right now. I think the Sabres desperately WANT him to be a top 4 shutdown guy....and he can play the right side decently enough. But, his development has been hampered by myriad injuries (largely originating from his playstyle). I've often made the comparison between him and Chris Tanev -- same style and Tanev was also oft-injured early but carved out a great career as a top 4 shutdown guy. Plenty of FANS are down on Sammy, but I cannot picture Adams dealing him at this point.....certainly not while his value is lower than it should be (which is typically when the Sabres trade someone, but I digress....).

That said.....IF the Sabres are down on Sammy -- Sammy and Rosen for an extended Pettersson with a plus would make sense.

 

[Zman5778]

Wrong way to look at it.

Adding veteran leadership like a Rakell is needed to move the needle now even if they aren't a playoff team this year. Jason Zucker was a fantastic add and the young players are raving about his work ethic. More of that is needed. Rakell and a Karlsson at 50% would be of interest to me.

I'm not sure how much Rakell would add to the "veteran leadership" thing other than his age. Pens fans might be able to comment on this more?

 

[Fjordy]

Wrong way to look at it.

Adding veteran leadership like a Rakell is needed to move the needle now even if they aren't a playoff team this year. Jason Zucker was a fantastic add and the young players are raving about his work ethic. More of that is needed. Rakell and a Karlsson at 50% would be of interest to me.

Why the hell do we need Karlsson? Three PMDs in the top 4 aren't enough for you, let's add a fourth one? No f***ing way.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Has Jarry really been that bad or has he been waived which helps facilities a trade to a team he might not want to go to.... I haven't checked if he has trade protection.


Why do the Wild want him??? LOL

According to Pens fans he's been rancid, and waive or trade would probably not be the best move. Drury has done that twice and the Rangers locker room seems none too pleased with him. Their results kinda show it, too.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

He's trying to speed up the rebuild a few years I guess?

Not sure why the Sabres would be interested in giving away their prospects tho

NHL Ready prospects don't really speed up a rebuild. Assuming PIT isn't willing to part with Crosby/Malkin/Letang they have nothing to pull top prospects from other teams. They end up with a couple C level prospects for what they have to give.

 

[Empoleon8771]

NHL Ready prospects don't really speed up a rebuild. Assuming PIT isn't willing to part with Crosby/Malkin/Letang they have nothing to pull top prospects from other teams. They end up with a couple C level prospects for what they have to give.

They're not asking for top prospects from other teams, they're asking for their B caliber prospects. Hence why Rosen is the main name being thrown around in here. You're talking about the caliber of prospects that the Penguins got multiple of in the Guentzel trade last year.

They're not asking for Benson from Buffalo, who they don't have the assets to pull off anyway.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

They're not asking for top prospects from other teams, they're asking for their B caliber prospects. Hence why Rosen is the main name being thrown around in here. You're talking about the caliber of prospects that the Penguins got multiple of in the Guentzel trade last year.

They're not asking for Benson from Buffalo, who they don't have the assets to pull off anyway.

I'm not saying they are. I'm just saying I don't get the purpose of what Dubas is doing, and I don't think he does either.

Honestly, my bet would be even Dubas (Who I don't think is a particularly good GM) realizes Pittsburgh's window has long been shut, but is an employee doing the bidding of his bosses at Fenway.

And they don't get that it's over, and they're making an impending rebuild even more painful by trying to prolong it.

 

[qc14]

If the "NHL ready prospects" the Penguins got for Guentzel were Ponomarev, Lucius, and Koivunen, what do they really think they're getting back for Petterson or Rakell?

Another Dubas galaxy-brain move here

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm not saying they are. I'm just saying I don't get the purpose of what Dubas is doing, and I don't think he does either.

Honestly, my bet would be even Dubas (Who I don't think is a particularly good GM) realizes Pittsburgh's window has long been shut, but is an employee doing the bidding of his bosses at Fenway.

And they don't get that it's over, and they're making an impending rebuild even more painful by trying to prolong it.

No, it's pretty obvious what they're doing. They're building up the "base" of the prospect pool now before they truly bottom out, so that when they bottom out and start getting the new Celebrini/Bedard/ect new franchise pieces, those guys will be joining a team with some actual NHL talent. They don't want a Bedard in Chicago scenario, where Chicago tore everything down just to get Bedard and are putting him in an awful situation because of it.

It's the same thing the Penguins did in their 2000 rebuild. At this stage, they're trying to build up the Orpik/Malone/Armstrong/ect part of the prospect pool.

If the "NHL ready prospects" the Penguins got for Guentzel were Ponomarev, Lucius, and Koivunen, what do they really think they're getting back for Petterson or Rakell?

Another Dubas galaxy-brain move here

All 3 of those prospects are looking extremely good for the Penguins, though. 3 of the Penguins top-5 prospects in Wheeler's new rankings are from the Guentzel trade, with Brunicke in 2nd, Koivunen in 3rd and Lucius in 5th. Ponomarev is ranked 10th as well.

The Guentzel trade is looking really good for the Penguins so far.

 

[qc14]

No, it's pretty obvious what they're doing. They're building up the "base" of the prospect pool now before they truly bottom out, so that when they bottom out and start getting the new Celebrini/Bedard/ect new franchise pieces, those guys will be joining a team with some actual NHL talent.

It's the same thing the Penguins did in their 2000 rebuild. At this stage, they're trying to build up the Orpik/Malone/Armstrong/ect part of the prospect pool.



All 3 of those prospects are looking extremely good for the Penguins, though. Wheeler just had the Penguins prospect pool ranked 20th with Koivunen 3rd, Lucius 5th and Ponomarev 10th.

The Guentzel trade is looking really good for the Penguins so far.

I don't think that's "looking extremely good" in any way ... is the plan to get back two guys who will be their 7th and 11th best prospects for Pettersson and Bunting???

As always with Dubas my criticism is much more tactical than strategic. I understand why he would want this type of return. The problem is that it's the type of return that other teams are least inclined to give up and he's done a horrible job of setting the Penguins up with desirable veteran pieces to move out.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

No, it's pretty obvious what they're doing. They're building up the "base" of the prospect pool now before they truly bottom out, so that when they bottom out and start getting the new Celebrini/Bedard/ect new franchise pieces, those guys will be joining a team with some actual NHL talent.

It's the same thing the Penguins did in their 2000 rebuild. At this stage, they're trying to build up the Orpik/Malone/Armstrong/ect part of the prospect pool.

How exactly is PIT going to bottom out by adding several nearly NHL ready B level prospects now?

The players they're acquiring are either not going to be good NHL players, allowing them to be the absolute shits, or they are going to be good NHLers, which means they're not going to be the absolute shits.

This comes across as being rather oblivious to how bad teams like Chicago and San Jose were in their bottom out years.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think that's "looking extremely good" in any way ... is the plan to get back two guys who will be their 7th and 11th best prospects for Pettersson and Bunting???

Getting 3 top-5 prospects for a rental Guentzel is somehow not good? Brunicke, Koivunen and Lucius are all top-5 prospects in the Penguins system, with Brunicke looking especially good.

And yes, the prospect being thrown out in here is Rosen, who's Buffalo's 6th ranked prospect according to their 2024 prospect rankings. He'd likely be around 3rd or 4th in the Penguins system, but that's likely who they'd be getting back as the primary piece for someone like Pettersson or Bunting.

How exactly is PIT going to bottom out by adding several nearly NHL ready B level prospects now?

The players they're acquiring are either not going to be good NHL players, allowing them to be the absolute shits, or they are going to be good NHLers, which means they're not going to be the absolute shits.

This comes across as being rather oblivious to how bad teams like Chicago and San Jose were in their bottom out years.

The Penguins right now are the 8th worst team in hockey with Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Karlsson, Rakell and Rust all still on the roster. They'll have no issues bottoming out with those guys gone and replaced with the young NHL ready prospects. McGroarty and Brunicke are the only prospects in their system that have "core" upside, and just those two aren't going to prevent this team from sucking.

 

[qc14]

Getting 3 top-5 prospects for a rental Guentzel is somehow not good? Brunicke, Koivunen and Lucius are all top-5 prospects in the Penguins system, with Brunicke looking especially good.

And yes, the prospect being thrown out in here is Rosen, who's Buffalo's 6th ranked prospect according to their 2024 prospect rankings. He'd likely be around 3rd or 4th in the Penguins system, but that's likely who they'd be getting back as the primary piece for someone like Pettersson or Bunting.

If adding three top 5 prospects in your system only pushes you up to 20, I think it tells you a lot about the relative weakness of your pool as a whole and of those prospects

 

[Empoleon8771]

If adding three top 5 prospects in your system only pushes you up to 20, I think it tells you a lot about the relative weakness of your pool as a whole and of those prospects

Yes the Penguins prospect pool has sucked for a long time. Thanks Captain Obvious, no one would have known that!

They have a borderline average/poor prospect pool for league standards and got 3 top-5 caliber prospects (in their system) for Guentzel, in addition to Bunting who can still also be traded. It is baseless to claim that deal was bad for the Penguins.

And in the context of this thread, the Penguins would likely be targeting one of Buffalo's prospects on par with Koivunen. Which is why Rosen keeps coming up, because he's the most apples to apples comparable to Koivunen in their pool it seems.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

The Penguins right now are the 8th worst team in hockey with Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Karlsson, Rakell and Rust all still on the roster. They'll have no issues bottoming out with those guys gone and replaced with the young NHL ready prospects. McGroarty and Brunicke are the only prospects in their system that have "core" upside, and just those two aren't going to prevent this team from sucking.

It's not really surprising that they're bottom 8 in spite of all those names... They were good, some of them great, at one time, but that time isn't now.

If you're really going for rock bottom to get an elite/generational talent, you pretty much have to go scorched earth like Chicago did in 2022 if you really want to ensure it.

 

[TootooTrain]

Would imagine Rosen is near the top of their list. Still young at 21, but he's in his 3rd season of AHL hockey putting up solid numbers.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Pittsburgh is going to get NHL ready players by selling vets at the deadline to Cup contenders. Last I checked, Buffalo was at the very bottom of the standings. I can't think of a worse trade partner right now.

 

[trellaine201]

If your looking for over the 30 crowd Pitt has it.

 

[Uberpecker]

Who doesn't.