Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - JJ and Letang drama

[Empoleon8771]

I guess Rust and McCann for Reinhart does fall into the possible range, but I don't really see that being something that Buffalo fans would be happy with. Hell, I'm not sure Penguins fans would be that okay with it either.

Reinhart is interesting because he's a 55-60 point guy that gets most of his production at ES and is a strong play driver both offensively and defensively.



I would very much like him on the Penguins, but at that price? I just don't know. He seems like a really good player, but Rust and McCann for Reinhart just seems...I don't know.

 

[SEALBound]

I've seen this come up from people a few times and I can't get behind it. Why would you want to do that to Jarry? Having MAF behind him will cause the media and fans to go nuts. Every time Jarry has a bad game, MAF worshipers will come out of the woodwork for him to start. People still believe MAF was traded to keep Murray. That's not to mention that his cap hit is pretty high for a back up and can be used better places elsewhere. I just don't understand why you'd want Flower back other than love of the guy.

Indeed. You don't. MAF should not be a Penguin again UNLESS his current deal expires and he is brought back a on a 1yr retire-a-Penguin deal where there is absolutely no question whatsoever he is there to back up Jarry.

There are still fans out there that would rather us lose with Fleury than win with Murray. The MAF fascination needs to die for this fan base (at least in the scope of him being the starter).

From the Sabres board, via another board, via a poster who broke the Botterill being fired news:

- Buffalo is looking to trade for a 2C and top 6 winger from a team that made the playoff bubble
- Reinhart seems to be involved
- Said poster from said board said they'd be happy with the trade

McCann and Hornqvist are a 2C and top 6 winger, respectively, from a certain point of view...

I would absolutely do that deal. McCann+Horny for Reinhart? Yes. I would add something to snag Montour's rights too. THAT is the kind of deal that helps spark a change.

I highly doubt its us though. I would think it's Montreal with Domi before us. Domi+Byron for Reinhart or something like that.

That said, I combed the teams that made the playoff bubble and not many have a 2C and Top 6 wing to spare. I assume they want bonafide roster players if they are talking Reinhart.

Arizona - Stepan+Fischer? Hard to see a deal with their roster though.
Toronto - No 2Cs to give up and I doubt this is the deal they make...unless it's Kapanen+Kerfoot for Reinhart+Montour
Dallas - Nothing
St. Louis - Nothing and I doubt they want to make those changes.
Vancouver - No 2C or Top 6 wing to spare.
Philly - No 2C or Top 6 wing to spare that make sense.
Chicago - They have so many young kids on ELCs...too tough to know.
Washington - Don't see it.
Vegas - No 2C or Top 6 wing to spare that make sense.
Florida - No one under contract, RFAs don't make sense.
Edmonton - Can't see it unless it's a bigger deal around RNH.
Boston - Don't see it.
Calgary - Could easily be something around Bennett but the top 6 wing is tougher to pinpoint. Lindholm?
Tampa - Don't see it.
Nashville - Plenty of options but I can see what works that makes sense. Could do Bonino+Arvidsson/Tolvenen/Jarnkrok. Lots of options and they are a team that is looking for changes as well.
Minnesota - Nothing that makes sense, no 2C or Top 6 wing to spare.
Islanders - Don't see it.
Winnipeg - With Lowry and Roslovic, I could see this. Top 6 wing is tough to pinpoint though. Copp?
Rangers - Couple deals that I could see here. Strome+Lemieux/Buchneivich...they may have more flexibility with that 1OV coming in.
Montreal - Makes sense to me with Domi being unhappy. Domi+Byron/Lehkonen/Armia
Columbus - Lots of options with Wennberg/Jenner/Nash/Bjorkstrand. Could easily see a deal.
Colorado - Jost? Namestnikov/Burakovsky/Donskoi...but I have doubts.

Penguins - McCann + Horny makes a ton of sense. Could do Rust if the add on their end is bigger.

So that leaves: Penguins, Arizona, Calgary, Nashville, Winnipeg, Rangers, Monteal, and Columbus that all potentially make sense...

 

[Empoleon8771]

Thinking about it more, I think Chicago makes sense as a team that is looking at Reinhart for that kind of package. It sounds like Strome is on the way out due to contract concerns and the emergence of Dach and Saad is a rental with only 1 year left. Something like Strome and Saad for Reinhart makes sense on paper, you'd have to massage out the cap somehow but I think that's more in line with what that deal would look like.

 

[DesertPenguin]

It is only possible as a long term sustainable thing with a guy who's noticeably overqualified. It's asking a guy to be 2C good but in 3C time.

We were a juggernaut in the 2016 cup run because we had 3 legitimate scoring lines. HBK happened by accident because of Malkin's injury and it clicked.
2017, HBK stopped working, and we won, but I think everyone would agree the 2016 team was the superior unit.

GMJR saw that 3 scoring lines wins, that Kessel was not a great fit with Sid or Geno, and that Bonino wasn't making Phil happy anymore. He tried to fix it by getting Brassard at 3C, essentially asking a 2C to play 3C. It was a disaster, but I think most blamed that on Brassard. We tried it again, swapping Brass for McCann and Bjugstad, thinking one or both of them might be that 2C playing on the 3rd line to get Phil to work there again. Didn't work again. Eventually we gave up on Phil and find ourselves here.

I still like the matchup advantage that an overqualified 3C get's you, but it's not the only way to skin the cat. You can win with a loaded top 6, or better 3rd line wingers, or a stronger D. For the time being, I think our cap space and trade assets are better spent upgrading the defense. Our 3rd pair was atrocious vs the Habs. JJ allowed 5 even strength goals against, and Schultz allowed 6. That's tops for the team despite the lowest EV TOI. Letang also had 5GA, which isn't good, but it was in more minutes, and at least he was also on the ice for 3 even strength goals for. The only D that was actually positive in even strength goal differential was, believe it or not, Pettersson at +1. Dumo was even, Marino -1, Letang -2, and JJ/Schultz were -4.

Upgrade the 3rd pair by any means necessary, let the kids play, and see where we are at mid season.

Edit: Interesting side note: our PK was 100% for the series. That's impressive.

 

[Andy99]

get a coach who recognizes this and changes things up

 

[Andy99]

Pittsburgh Penguins: Grading each player’s season

 

[CallArnoldSlick]

Bonino also had 8 goals and 15 points in 30 playoff games before becoming a Penguin. Even in 2016, only 3 of his 18 points in 24 games were powerplay points. The Penguins don't just need depth guys who are good at even strength, but guys who elevate their game when it matters most. That's why I'm interested in Erik Haula, in only 48 playoff games he has 10 goals and 23 points. He's fast, is a good playmaker and can kill penalties. The only question is his injury history, but I wouldn't plan on signing him long-term.

I think when it comes to bottom-six players, specifically third line centers, production during the playoffs is what I'd be most interested in. Sure, you want those guys to produce during the regular season, and most of the production is going to come from even strength. I think the biggest reason why the Penguins have been eliminated the past 3 seasons is lack of depth. I hate to admit it, but losing that threat of Kessel on the third line as well as nobody else really showing up has hurt them. I don't think we miss Kessel as much as we miss big game depth players. Which Kessel, Bonino, and Kunitz were. I know people hated having Kunitz here towards the end, but the guy had 23 points in 44 playoff games when we won back-to-back Stanley Cups. Yeah, only 6 were goals, but he still was more productive than Hagelin and Bonino in 2017.

Wanting a more experienced 3C is a valid opinion. I disagree, but not because it is wrong.

I dont hold Blueger's lack of playoff experience against him.

Blueger has scored 1 even strength goal in his 5 playoff games. Bonino, before joining the Pens, scored 5 in 30, a rate of 1 every 6 games. Haula has scored 9 in 48, about 1 every 5.3 games.

Obviously Blueger has a small sample size. I'm just not sure his long term production would be different than the guys you mentioned.

Also Blueger and Zucker were the only non-Crosbys to beat Price at even strength this postseason, so he has performed "when it matters most," in his limited time.

 

[SEALBound]

get a coach who recognizes this and changes things up

Solving the trap is as much of a player thing as a coach/system thing. We are a puck possession minded team, Sid/Geno/Letang are ALL puck possession oriented players. Thats what they like their linemates to do as well. It's part of the reason Sid doesn't always like Hornqvist. There is an easy way to "beat" a trap and that's dump and chase with relentless speed and forecheck. Not unlike what he has in 2016. That team forced so many dmen to skate ALL game. Then once you've broken the trap, your normal forecheck or offensive plan can take over.

So more so than anything, if Sullivan or whoever want to change things up to counter, we need the buy in from Sid, Geno, Letang and then that needs to translate down the lineup. Each line needs to have its speedy forechecker or its relentlessly physical forechecker. In 2016, that was: Horny on L1, Kunitz/Rust on L2, and Hagelin on L3. Each one of them were countered by puck possession and skill on the other side (Sid/Sheary, Malkin, Kessel). But alas, we are 4 years older and no longer in our late 20s. Finding those speedy forecheckers is tough because, you know who else likes them? The other 30 NHL teams who looked at what we did and ran with it.

I think a gritty skill guy is Sid's need. I think Zucker-Malkin-Rust can be okay if you can put the fire under their bums. If it's McCann at 3C, I think that can work but you need a lightning fast forechecker and a highskill guy. I don't think Horny fits that bill and I have trouble seeing who else might...Tanev would be my best bet. So maybe a 3rd line of Poulin-McCann-Tanev could work? Zucker-McCann-Tanev?

 

[Gurglesons]

He just said on the last pod that he thinks the Penguins need to work harder than any elite skill team to win, because as soon as they don’t bust their ass they fall apart.

Eh. He’s been making the same point for years. The Pens are either lights out or indifferent. I guess you can equate it to working harder, but that’s interesting coming from Marek who says Crosby should win the Hart every year because of his work ethic and how it reflects on his team.

 

[SEALBound]

Pittsburgh Penguins: Grading each player’s season

Kinda cringeworthy when you give Sheary a B, Tanev a C, and Lafferty a F.

All based on adv stat watching. May as well ranked have ranked them by +/-

 

[Gurglesons]

Kinda cringeworthy when you give Sheary a B, Tanev a C, and Lafferty a F.

All based on adv stat watching. May as well ranked have ranked them by +/-

Tanev was terrible for half the season.

 

[Gurglesons]

I guess Rust and McCann for Reinhart does fall into the possible range, but I don't really see that being something that Buffalo fans would be happy with. Hell, I'm not sure Penguins fans would be that okay with it either.

Reinhart is interesting because he's a 55-60 point guy that gets most of his production at ES and is a strong play driver both offensively and defensively.



I would very much like him on the Penguins, but at that price? I just don't know. He seems like a really good player, but Rust and McCann for Reinhart just seems...I don't know.

7 mil for Reinhart is a total meh from me.

 

[SEALBound]

Tanev was terrible for half the season.

I disagree but go ahead and show me a colorful chart that says he was an percentage lower than another player in your chosen category.

7 mil for Reinhart is a total meh from me.

He is a 20/30/50pt player at 24 on a pretty blah team. Considering Kevin Hayes got $7.1, I would jump at Reinhart for $7mil assuming the money out was comparable. When you start to have major decline in core players, I think he's a guy you can start to lean on a little hard in his late 20s.

In 2 years, it will be Geno's last contracted year. By then, we should know what Poulin is.

Jake-Sid-Malkin
Zucker-Reinhart-Rust/Poulin
Poulin-Bleuger-XXX

isn't the worst top 9 considering 'we have who we have'.

 

[SEALBound]

I guess Rust and McCann for Reinhart does fall into the possible range, but I don't really see that being something that Buffalo fans would be happy with. Hell, I'm not sure Penguins fans would be that okay with it either.

Reinhart is interesting because he's a 55-60 point guy that gets most of his production at ES and is a strong play driver both offensively and defensively.

I would very much like him on the Penguins, but at that price? I just don't know. He seems like a really good player, but Rust and McCann for Reinhart just seems...I don't know.

Would you do it if they tagged Montour's RFA rights on the back end and we added something?

 

[Gurglesons]

I disagree but go ahead and show me a colorful chart that says he was an percentage lower than another player in your chosen category.



He is a 20/30/50pt player at 24 on a pretty blah team. Considering Kevin Hayes got $7.1, I would jump at Reinhart for $7mil assuming the money out was comparable. When you start to have major decline in core players, I think he's a guy you can start to lean on a little hard in his late 20s.

In 2 years, it will be Geno's last contracted year. By then, we should know what Poulin is.

Jake-Sid-Malkin
Zucker-Reinhart-Rust/Poulin
Poulin-Bleuger-XXX

isn't the worst top 9 considering 'we have who we have'.

Reinhart is a 20-30 guy with one of the best centers in the league.

I don’t need to show a chart for Tanev, the monthly splits production wise say all it needs to. And it isn’t like we had a lights out PK or defensive team with him. The grade is perfect for his contract and what he brought this year.

 

[T1K]

Sam Reinhart is really good, but I definitely don’t want him at 7 mil AAV. 6-6.5 over 5 years and limited NTC is where I’d top out.

 

[SEALBound]

Reinhart is a 20-30 guy with one of the best centers in the league.

I don’t need to show a chart for Tanev, the monthly splits production wise say all it needs to. And it isn’t like we had a lights out PK or defensive team with him. The grade is perfect for his contract and what he brought this year.

And with that, they have a mediocre back end and are always the sole focus of the oppositions best lines. I don't know what the usage here would be though. Seems like maybe it could be Sid's RW which would be great. I would wager that Guentzel-Crosby with Letang and Dumo backing them up will produce as much as Olofsson-Eichel and Ristolainen. I'm also looking at him as a guy who can be a center when called upon. If it's Horny out at 5.25mil and Reinhart is only $7mil, I still do it. Looking at the recent season's stat list, it's not completely out of line though there would certainly be a case for something close to $6mil to put him more in line with guys like Horvat, Boeser, or Ehlers.

 

[Gurglesons]

And with that, they have a mediocre back end and are always the sole focus of the oppositions best lines. I don't know what the usage here would be though. Seems like maybe it could be Sid's RW which would be great. I would wager that Guentzel-Crosby with Letang and Dumo backing them up will produce as much as Olofsson-Eichel and Ristolainen. I'm also looking at him as a guy who can be a center when called upon. If it's Horny out at 5.25mil and Reinhart is only $7mil, I still do it. Looking at the recent season's stat list, it's not completely out of line though there would certainly be a case for something close to $6mil to put him more in line with guys like Horvat, Boeser, or Ehlers.

I guess if you can get Hornqvist out, I'd go for it.

Reinhart isn't an NHL center though. I think he has proved that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

7 mil for Reinhart is a total meh from me.

I don't think he'd be getting that, I think he'd be getting something closer to Guentzel's contract.

It's a moot point because I don't think Buffalo would trade him here for McCann and Rust. They can do better than that.

 

[SEALBound]

Buffalo fans are leaning towards it being Calgary and something around Monahan and Johnny Hockey. I don't see it but I've been wrong before.

 

[Turin]

Buffalo fans are leaning towards it being Calgary and something around Monahan and Johnny Hockey. I don't see it but I've been wrong before.

Both? Rofl

 

[pensfan71]

Buffalo fans are leaning towards it being Calgary and something around Monahan and Johnny Hockey. I don't see it but I've been wrong before.

Eichel, Monahan and Gaudreau is dangerous...

 

[Rave7215]

Sam Reinhart is really good, but I definitely don’t want him at 7 mil AAV. 6-6.5 over 5 years and limited NTC is where I’d top out.

If the money is right, I'd love targeting Buffalo to get Reinhart and Montour.

 

[mpp9]

Eh. He’s been making the same point for years. The Pens are either lights out or indifferent. I guess you can equate it to working harder, but that’s interesting coming from Marek who says Crosby should win the Hart every year because of his work ethic and how it reflects on his team.

I'm reading it as Pens have to work way harder than other highly skilled teams to win.

I'd say that points to the highly skilled players losing a step and the coaching staff not implementing a system that puts on level ground with the opposition.

 

[Peat]

I'd be interested about Reinhart. Not sure about 7m interested, but RFA pay has spiked - although where's that number come from?

I think calling McCann a 2C is a tad generous but looking at the list @SEALBound wrote, they could do worse. Stepan is a borderline cap dump. The Strome/Saad deal Empo suggests is interesting, makes sense for both teams, but Strome has taken off in no small part to playing a ton of time with DeBrincat and Kane. Buffalo don't have those guys. What if he regresses back to 'Zona Strome away from them? I guess it does feel like the best deal for Buffalo though.

Would be lovely to get someone high-end like him though.