Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: If they trade Letang, Scandy Riots

[SEALBound]

You think they are retaining 5 mil on Fleury? Or you think they are buying him out?

I predicated that on them buying him out. I have doubts that they carry MAF @ $7mil and Lehner @ $5mil. Woof. The idea behind a $1-2mil deal would be, he's still getting quite a paycheck from Vegas and he gets to come "home to Pittsburgh". Also frames him as the backup to Jarry. If he comes in at $5mil or more, people are going to want him to be the starter...rightfully and wrongfully.

 

[Rakell67]

A Fleury buy out by Vegas would count against their cap as follows:
2020-21 $2.583
2021-22 $3.083
2022-23 $2.083
2023-24 $2.083

So instead of a buyout, what if Vegas retains $2.5 mil and takes Johnson?

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Fleury's gonna get bought out and sign here

Why would he sign here to sign on the bench when there are likely many starter jobs available?

I love MAF WAY more than most, but this ship has sailed.

 

[Gurglesons]

I predicated that on them buying him out. I have doubts that they carry MAF @ $7mil and Lehner @ $5mil. Woof. The idea behind a $1-2mil deal would be, he's still getting quite a paycheck from Vegas and he gets to come "home to Pittsburgh". Also frames him as the backup to Jarry. If he comes in at $5mil or more, people are going to want him to be the starter...rightfully and wrongfully.

Makes sense. Lot of money for Vegas to eat in a pandemic though..

 

[T1K]

So instead of a buyout, what if Vegas retains $2.5 mil and takes Johnson?

Why would they do that?

Why are we still talking about acquiring MAF when we are literally trying to GET RID of a goalie?

 

[vikingGoalie]

@Empoleon8771 that's the chatter out of vegas right now. According to fans and some radio hosts in that city they think Fleury will be bought out and then sign a friendly deal with the Pens. I'd love to watch Fleury again in a pens jersey for Nostalgia reasons. But would it harm Jarry's growth into being our starter? If jarry can tune out all the Yinzer fleury chants anytime a goal is scored it could be great. We don't win in 2017 without Flower he literally stole the first two series. His first season with the Knights those first 3 rounds were some of the best goal tending I have ever watched in the playoffs. So having Jarry/Fleury and ride who ever is playing best in the moment could be really good Fleury's highs when he's "on" are insanely high but we know with the peaks there are valleys as well. I'm very on the fence on this, but it sure seems like the writing is on the wall that this is gonna happen.

 

[Peat]

So, uh, two things about MAF.

1) If Vegas want to get rid of him to pay Lehner instead, they don't want to take on equal salary from us (or anyone else) to make it happen. I mean, c'mon now here people. That doesn't work for them. Jokes about all of our bad players for all of your good players, there's no reason to talk about it.

2) I have no idea why so many people are so cool with bringing a goalie controversy onto this team (if MAF is back-up) or a declining starter with a history of one disaster series a post-season (if he isn't). Personally these sound like awful ideas to me. I really, really, really f***ing hope MAF comes nowhere near this org until it's super clear he's nothing more than a great veteran back up.

Why would he sign here to sign on the bench when there are likely many starter jobs available?

I love MAF WAY more than most, but this shit has sailed.

Because we live in an age of misery and this is the most miserable thing that can be imagined

 

[66-30-33]

Why are people talking about Fleury? Staal yesterday, Fleury today.

 

[vikingGoalie]

Why would they do that?

Why are we still talking about acquiring MAF when we are literally trying to GET RID of a goalie?

because the consensus is that Murray is good as gone (and soon)
that riding Jarry/DeSmith might not be the best idea.
and that if you can get a goalie that provides the starts MAF can bring for a 2M cap hit you do it.

the X factor is how large his shadow would be over Jarry. Fleury is 35 right now, he's not exactly young. Watching him play it's amazing how athletic he still is at that age.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I just disagree about the sample size. A guy like ZAR has to show up and do something in the playoffs to warrant the continued faith the org keeps showing him.

It’s not only his atrocious lack of scoring, but he’s been bad at both ends of the rink during the playoffs.

I have repeatedly pointed this out and his mistakes the last few years, but there always seems to be an excuse for the guy.

The defense of ZAR around here is literally
Adams level shit redux.

I find it totally bizarre.

ZAR isn’t some highly touted first rounder we are waiting to bloom.

He is an at best decent fourth liner if he maxed out his potential.

Why would you keep putting him back in the mix when the results aren’t there and you want to change things?

Cant change the core.. can’t trade Rust... can’t trade Hornqvist he’s a Viking... ZAR has fancy stats, might as well keep him to.

Again, people and JR especially, best remember this mix has lead to 10 playoff losses in the last 12... which might be the worst run this franchise has ever had since I started following them as a kid in the late 80s.

Probably because they won ZAR in the signing sweepstakes out of college. They dont want to throw away that free t-shirt.

But yeah I agree. If JR is willing to keep mortgaging the future by trading our first rounders and top prospects then why not make sure we have a better lineup? Why settle anywhere in the lineup?

Thats why I said this off season they need to make sure they have an improved bottom 6.

How do you do that? Add talent. Even if we cant afford any of the top UFAs, trade for someone before the season starts.

Do whatever it takes. I mentioned what I would do but heres another.

Murray to Avs for Burakovsky. Call it a day. Not only was he one of the most improved players this past season but the playoffs as well. 7g 10a in 2 rounds? Hes RFA like Murray. Even swap. Avs have plenty of cap space but also alot of players to sign this year and next. They have plenty of decisions to make. They also have prospects who can step in, So they can afford to lose Burakovsky if it means adding what they were missing. A goalie away from winning it all. Not saying that is Murray but Im sure he would do much better there.

Bura can play LW or RW. Put him with Malkin and Rust on 2nd, allowing Zucker to make the 3rd line much better or vice versa.

Either way, just add more talent. Then figure out the right chemistry with the lines. Kapanen was a nice pickup but he would have to do what Burakovsky did these playoffs to really move the needle for us.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

MAF at a steeeeeep discount is a fine enough backup, the issue is whether or not he'd take said steep discount, and what it'd mean for the MAF cultists in Pittsburgh who would be calling for Jarry's head from the moment MAF puts pen to paper.

 

[Gurglesons]

@Empoleon8771 that's the chatter out of vegas right now. According to fans and some radio hosts in that city they think Fleury will be bought out and then sign a friendly deal with the Pens. I'd love to watch Fleury again in a pens jersey for Nostalgia reasons. But would it harm Jarry's growth into being our starter? If jarry can tune out all the Yinzer fleury chants anytime a goal is scored it could be great. We don't win in 2017 without Flower he literally stole the first two series. His first season with the Knights those first 3 rounds were some of the best goal tending I have ever watched in the playoffs. So having Jarry/Fleury and ride who ever is playing best in the moment could be really good Fleury's highs when he's "on" are insanely high but we know with the peaks there are valleys as well. I'm very on the fence on this, but it sure seems like the writing is on the wall that this is gonna happen.

I'm with @Peat. Awful deal if we do it.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Hypothetically, Vegas can retain 50% on Fleury and then send him to a team to buy him out, right? And that way those two teams have equal share on the buyout cap hit?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

So, uh, two things about MAF.

1) If Vegas want to get rid of him to pay Lehner instead, they don't want to take on equal salary from us (or anyone else) to make it happen. I mean, c'mon now here people. That doesn't work for them. Jokes about all of our bad players for all of your good players, there's no reason to talk about it.

2) I have no idea why so many people are so cool with bringing a goalie controversy onto this team (if MAF is back-up) or a declining starter with a history of one disaster series a post-season (if he isn't). Personally these sound like awful ideas to me. I really, really, really f***ing hope MAF comes nowhere near this org until it's super clear he's nothing more than a great veteran back up.



Because we live in an age of misery and this is the most miserable thing that can be imagined

It's bonkers to me anyone would be glad to have Fleury back. Did people already forget the goalie controversy when Fleury/Murray were the two goalies? How much more now when the guy who deserves to be the starter (Jarry) doesn't even have Murray's Cup resume to use as an argument as why he should start ahead of Mr. Smiles.

If Fleury wants to "retire as a Pen", then when he's literally set to retire sign him to one of those 1-day contracts or whatever so he can sail off into the sunset as a Penguin. Don't f***ing re-acquire him when he still wants to actually be a starter.

 

[66-30-33]

Hypothetically, Vegas can retain 50% on Fleury and then send him to a team to buy him out, right? And that way those two teams have equal share on the buyout cap hit?

Would cost them a 2nd probably, like Fleury at 50% to Wings for a 2nd round pick for example and they buy him out with a 1M dead cap space hit for 4 years which would be nothing for them as they are tanking for a better future.

 

[Will Hunting]

Idk, but trading Murray and signing Fleury for cheap and short to mentor Jarry sounds like a decent asset management to me. No bias here, I am not a Fleury fan but it makes some sense

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Idk, but trading Murray and signing Fleury for cheap and short to mentor Jarry sounds like a decent asset management to me. No bias here, I am not a Fleury fan but it makes some sense

Yes, because of course Fleury will be used exclusively as a mentor and backup, and not have half the casual fanbase and media screaming for "start him!" every time Jarry lets in a goal. Sure, that's what's going to happen.

This reminds me -- albeit to a greater degree -- of those "we should get Kunitz back. He'd be great as long as he's only used as a 4th liner" even though it was blatantly obvious that's not how he would have been employed here.

And yes I'm angry. People waxing nostalgia and pretending that re-signing/re-acquiring these guys won't be an issue make grit my teeth just to read about it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

A Fleury buy out by Vegas would count against their cap as follows:
2020-21 $2.583
2021-22 $3.083
2022-23 $2.083
2023-24 $2.083

Another way you can look at it: if the rumors of a 5x5 for Lehner are true, you're basically just paying Lehner $7-$8 million for those years. If he continues to be what he has been in the last 2 years, I don't even think that's an overpayment.

Why would he sign here to sign on the bench when there are likely many starter jobs available?

I love MAF WAY more than most, but this ship has sailed.

Because:

1. I don't think Jarry is so proven that he'd be the undisputed starter here.
2. You need 2 good goalies in the NHL at this point, so any Fleury-Jarry tandem would likely be splitting games
3. A lot of teams who need starting goalies aren't good teams.

Fleury has made a shitload of money over his career. He's not realistically going to get more than a 1A position from any team at this point. I don't see why he'd be opposed with being a 1B in Pittsburgh.

So, uh, two things about MAF.

1) If Vegas want to get rid of him to pay Lehner instead, they don't want to take on equal salary from us (or anyone else) to make it happen. I mean, c'mon now here people. That doesn't work for them. Jokes about all of our bad players for all of your good players, there's no reason to talk about it.

2) I have no idea why so many people are so cool with bringing a goalie controversy onto this team (if MAF is back-up) or a declining starter with a history of one disaster series a post-season (if he isn't). Personally these sound like awful ideas to me. I really, really, really f***ing hope MAF comes nowhere near this org until it's super clear he's nothing more than a great veteran back up

Because most people don't see this hypothetical "goalie controversy" as a very likely or a very big problem.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If JR actually makes decisions based on how fans may react to the decision, he should be fired on the spot. JR should make decisions based solely on what makes the team better. If he says no to Fleury because "fans might be mean to Jarry and hurt his confidence", he should be replaced with someone who's solely focused on making the best team possible.

Look, I don't even like Fleury that much but people are being ridiculous with him. If you have the opportunity to get a proven goalie for cheap to platoon with Jarry, it would be moronic to say no because "what if fans start being mean to Jarry?". I think this talk is more just anti-Fleury than actually evaluating the idea objectively.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Why would he sign here to sign on the bench when there are likely many starter jobs available?

I love MAF WAY more than most, but this ship has sailed.

Yeah at least for now. But who knows maybe after his contract is up wherever else he goes, he comes back here on the cheap in a few years. He will be what...38-39 by then? Win one more title before he retires a Pen.

That would really mess with peoples heads. The never ending battle between MAF and Murray. Which I never understood. But would be funny as hell if that did happen.

 

[Gurglesons]

If JR actually makes decisions based on how fans may react to the decision, he should be fired on the spot. JR should make decisions based solely on what makes the team better. If he says no to Fleury because "fans might be mean to Jarry and hurt his confidence", he should be replaced with someone who's solely focused on making the best team possible.

Look, I don't even like Fleury that much but people are being ridiculous with him. If you have the opportunity to get a proven goalie for cheap to platoon with Jarry, it would be moronic to say no because "what if fans start being mean to Jarry?". I think this talk is more just anti-Fleury than actually evaluating the idea objectively.

I think it is setting up a young goalie who potentially could be a franchise starter as soon as next year for a ton of headaches that are unnecessary and I don't think Fleury has been that good the past two years despite the personal situation this year

 

[Peat]

Because most people don't see this hypothetical "goalie controversy" as a very likely or a very big problem.

And I have no idea how people with an understanding of the history of sport and working braincells would arrive at this position.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

While I agree that a GM shouldn't make a move based on how the fanbase may react, I think it's a bit naive to think a guy wouldn't be affected by seeing "WE WANT MAF" signs held up to the glass whenever he starts, or hear his backup's name chanted if he lets in a soft goal.

It's not as cut and dry as it seems, imo. Like most things, there's layers that need to be considered when you talk about adding MAF.

I don't think it's going to come to that though. Too many teams would want MAF for him to accept the kind of cheap deal he's need to in order to come here and be the backup.

 

[Rakell67]

Why would they do that?

Why are we still talking about acquiring MAF when we are literally trying to GET RID of a goalie?

Well there would be other players involved in the trade obviously.
As others have stated, next season will be compressed and having goalie depth will be helpful. Jarry/DeSmith isn’t great depth.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Let's be real, JR has 3 options for the backup goalie spot:

1. He can run with DeSmith, who had a shit year in the AHL last year and has like 50 games of NHL experience to his name
2. He can sign a stronger backup or 1B in free agency, which you can get a varied talent in net based on how much you're willing to pay
3. He can sign a bought-out Fleury to a likely super cheap deal, where you can get a proven starter as a backup that may want to play more than you want to play him.

To me, 3 is the best option there unless you can get a 1B for cheap.