Prospect Info: Pittsburgh Penguins Prospects Thread: 2023-2024 Edition

[Jacob]

Up 1-0 in the series and up 3-1 now tonight.

 

[Gurglesons]

Jagger Firkus had more points than Yager, Musty, Dvorsky, Danielson, etc. Does that mean he is a better prospect and so called “play driver” like someone is referring? I mean honestly cmon why are we having this convo with a guy who publicly hates when Dubas takes a shit.

I’m very high on Firkus. Perfect example of a great player who is overlooked because of his size.

 

[Jacob]

I guess it’ll be extra cool if they win since the NHL Network shows the Memorial Cup.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

So basically Dubas has to trade for Firkus, is what I'm getting from the discourse.

 

[Kasperi kapanen]

I’m very high on Firkus. Perfect example of a great player who is overlooked because of his size.

That’s fine, he’s a good player in his own right but let’s not act like he’s carrying around Yager all season just because he has more points. Yager plays the more responsible position so of course he won’t have the scoring opportunities Firkus gets.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Jagger Firkus had more points than Yager, Musty, Dvorsky, Danielson, etc. Does that mean he is a better prospect and so called “play driver” like someone is referring? I mean honestly cmon why are we having this convo with a guy who publicly hates when Dubas takes a shit.

@Gurglesons and I disagree on a lot regarding the Penguins, but he's not wrong about Yager.

It seems some Pens fans are hoping he's a potential star, but the reality is he will likely be a solid complementary player who can be a valuable top six winger or middle six center.

I think some of us are just trying to be a bit more realistic or pragmatic in our assessment rather than hoping Yager surpasses all expectations and becomes an elite player.

 

[Ryder71]

That’s fine, he’s a good player in his own right but let’s not act like he’s carrying around Yager all season just because he has more points. Yager plays the more responsible position so of course he won’t have the scoring opportunities Firkus gets.

Yager is also a year younger, well 8 months, but Firkus has a year more of experience. Last year Firkus had 88 points in 66 games in the RS. Yager had 95 points in 57 RS games this year. Firkus is ahead of him develpmentally, as he should be. But Yagers game IMO will translate better to the NHL.

 

[Andy99]

This got me thinking…if you could trade Yager and DOC to Ottawa for Pinto, would you do it? I would, which kinda tells me what I think about Yager’s chances of being of a top six center for the Pens lol

Kan Dingerski really inflating DOC here lol

The 7 Penguins Who Won’t Be Traded

It’s the offseason. The Pittsburgh Penguins were not invited to the Stanley Cup Playoffs, and there will be changes. Exactly how president of hockey operations/GM Kyle Dubas manages to escape his straitjacket and locked trunk in the form of players’ no-movement clauses and player no-trade values...

pittsburghhockeynow.com

 

[Gurglesons]

This got me thinking…if you could trade Yager and DOC to Ottawa for Pinto, would you do it? I would, which kinda tells me what I think about Yager’s chances of being of a top six center for the Pens lol

Kan Dingerski really inflating DOC here lol

The 7 Penguins Who Won’t Be Traded

It’s the offseason. The Pittsburgh Penguins were not invited to the Stanley Cup Playoffs, and there will be changes. Exactly how president of hockey operations/GM Kyle Dubas manages to escape his straitjacket and locked trunk in the form of players’ no-movement clauses and player no-trade values...

pittsburghhockeynow.com

I mean, sure. But seems like kinda of a rip off for us.

 

[Ulf5]

This got me thinking…if you could trade Yager and DOC to Ottawa for Pinto, would you do it? I would, which kinda tells me what I think about Yager’s chances of being of a top six center for the Pens lol

Kan Dingerski really inflating DOC here lol

The 7 Penguins Who Won’t Be Traded

It’s the offseason. The Pittsburgh Penguins were not invited to the Stanley Cup Playoffs, and there will be changes. Exactly how president of hockey operations/GM Kyle Dubas manages to escape his straitjacket and locked trunk in the form of players’ no-movement clauses and player no-trade values...

pittsburghhockeynow.com

Doubtful. Pinto definitely has a hell of a lot more upside, than DOC, without question. But that and a $20 will get you a case of crappy beer.
The difference in - 23 years, 182 days, 82-20-15-35- 15:59 and 25 years, 338 days, 79-16-17-33- 15:45 isn't Brayden Yager.

 

[SEALBound]

So basically Dubas has to trade for Firkus, is what I'm getting from the discourse.

Not sure what Seattle would want from us but that would be a good target for us. I think the only way he comes available is if there is a rift that develops between Firkus and Seattle.

@Gurglesons and I disagree on a lot regarding the Penguins, but he's not wrong about Yager.

It seems some Pens fans are hoping he's a potential star, but the reality is he will likely be a solid complementary player who can be a valuable top six winger or middle six center.

I think some of us are just trying to be a bit more realistic or pragmatic in our assessment rather than hoping Yager surpasses all expectations and becomes an elite player.

I mean, we all "hope" he's a potential star. We hope he develops into a first line center, we hope Koivunen develops into a first-line wing. We hope DOC develops into the next Cam Neely. We hope Pickering becoming a top pairing guy. We hope Ponomarov develops into a solid center. We all hope for good things from our prospects. But realistically, I think most of us just want Yager to be a solid roster player. I said, in five years, my hope is that he is a 20-20 guy for us and that a grand slam home run would be him being a top 6 center potting 30-30. That's the "reasonable level" to "ceiling" for Yager right there.

This got me thinking…if you could trade Yager and DOC to Ottawa for Pinto, would you do it? I would, which kinda tells me what I think about Yager’s chances of being of a top six center for the Pens lol

Kan Dingerski really inflating DOC here lol

The 7 Penguins Who Won’t Be Traded

It’s the offseason. The Pittsburgh Penguins were not invited to the Stanley Cup Playoffs, and there will be changes. Exactly how president of hockey operations/GM Kyle Dubas manages to escape his straitjacket and locked trunk in the form of players’ no-movement clauses and player no-trade values...

pittsburghhockeynow.com

Yes, I would easily. Pinto is establishing himself well and would be a great 2C for us which would allow us to shift Malkin to the wing. He's young enough where it's not a major issue to give up a prospect like Yager. And while I love what DOC is turning into (and do think there is more potential there), Pinto is closer to being a sure thing.

And yeah, DK gushes a bit there on DOC but honestly, I think DOC earned it with his play down the stretch. He was regularly noticeable, he frequently let loose with his speed, and he was one of our more aggressive forecheckers. He did everything he was supposed to be doing. I'm really excited to see how/if he progresses next year. Him developing into a Byran Rust with size would be ideal for us. Looking at their career progression, DOC is following nicely in Rust's path.

 

[Gurglesons]

And yeah, DK gushes a bit there on DOC but honestly, I think DOC earned it with his play down the stretch. He was regularly noticeable, he frequently let loose with his speed, and he was one of our more aggressive forecheckers. He did everything he was supposed to be doing. I'm really excited to see how/if he progresses next year. Him developing into a Byran Rust with size would be ideal for us. Looking at their career progression, DOC is following nicely in Rust's path.

This. People want to act like DOC has been a bust and there is an easy reason for that.

He was averaging 9-10 minutes in defensive moments. He was Sully'd.

We finally give him top 9 usage and he throws out a 16 goal 32 point season.

 

[Darren McCord]

This. People want to act like DOC has been a bust and there is an easy reason for that.

He was averaging 9-10 minutes in defensive moments. He was Sully'd.

We finally give him top 9 usage and he throws out a 16 goal 32 point season.

Sullivan loves driving players value down so we can dump them and pick up more harkins.

 

[Pancakes]

I called Doc breaking out before this season. It's good to (very occasionally) be right.

The increased role definitely helped though I do think he just flat out got better too. It wasn't all a case of minutes and role.

 

[Jacob]

I called Doc breaking out before this season. It's good to (very occasionally) be right.

The increased role definitely helped though I do think he just flat out got better too. It wasn't all a case of minutes and role.

Both the organization and I think some of the fan base is way too impatient and also seem to think every player is a finished product and what you see in their first 15 games or even their first full season is what they are and what they always will be.

Which is weird because we have many current examples of players that developed further even well into their mid to late 20s like Petts, and now DOC.

 

[Gurglesons]

Both the organization and I think some of the fan base is way too impatient and also seem to think every player is a finished product and what you see in their first 15 games or even their first full season is what they are and what they always will be.

Which is weird because we have many current examples of players that developed further even well into their mid to late 20s like Petts, and now DOC.

I consistently come back to a quote that I heard regarding Monteral under Bergervin and their struggles at development where the organization consistently focused on what their young players and prospects "couldn't do" versus what they can do.

Say what you want about the quality of prospects we have, but every time I hear Sullivan talking about a young player this quote is always in my mind. Every time he talks about these guys its about how they need to work on playing a complete game. I just searched Mike Sullivan on Puustinen and this is the first quote that pops up.

“I think (Puustinen’s) game is getting better and better with every game that he plays,” Sullivan said. “That seems to be, for me, probably the biggest hurdle, just his finishing ability. We believe he’s capable. We’re just going to work with him and stay with it here, but he’s a good hockey player, he has good offensive instincts (and) it’s great to see him score tonight.”

Like, sure there is positives in there, but it just seems like he's overtly focused on "what they need to do" versus "what they can do".

 

[Pancakes]

I consistently come back to a quote that I heard regarding Monteral under Bergervin and their struggles at development where the organization consistently focused on what their young players and prospects "couldn't do" versus what they can do.

Say what you want about the quality of prospects we have, but every time I hear Sullivan talking about a young player this quote is always in my mind.

Like, sure there is positives in there, but it just seems like he's overtly focused on "what they need to do" versus "what they can do".

It's funny because early on Sully did better with that. Calling Jake up and plugging him right into the top six was a smart move. Nowadays Sully would have taken a young Jake and plugged him into the bottom six.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's funny because early on Sully did better with that. Calling Jake up and plugging him right into the top six was a smart move. Nowadays Sully would have taken a young Jake and plugged him into the bottom six.

Makes you wonder if it was actually Sullivan making those decisions.

 

[Darren McCord]

Makes you wonder if it was actually Sullivan making those decisions.

I think JR had all the power then and the pendulum shifted to sullivan after he left abruptly. JR was actually allowed to push back against sullivan. Hextall wasn't. I don't know about Dubas yet.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I don't know if JR was the one pulling the strings or not, but it is simply beyond belief that a guy who knows how to coach would simply just choose not to for two seasons in a row. Ergo, it's probably most likely that those decisions were made by a lot more input than just Sullivan's.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think JR had all the power then and the pendulum shifted to sullivan after he left abruptly. JR was actually allowed to push back against sullivan. Hextall wasn't. I don't know about Dubas yet.

Seems like that is a weird explanation.

Sullivan obviously brought up and believed in some of the plays in 16, following that it seems like it was over.

 

[HandshakeLine]

At the end of the day, I don't think Sullivan was ever originally a big fan of those kids or he had an eye for talent, just that he knew them from WB/S and there was a lot of other strong voices in the room probably arguing on their behalf. If the ideas were all originally Sullivan, we'd be seeing them in play now, kind of like how Bylsma did the blend-o-matic on the lines anytime the team started to struggle.

 

[Jacob]

Am I wrong or didn’t Guentzel get sent down once? And we were all kinda like what the f***.

Yes:

2017-01-16	Recalled from the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins (AHL).
2016-12-07	Assigned to the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins (AHL).
2016-11-21	Recalled from the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins (AHL).
2016-10-07	Assigned to the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins (AHL).

 

[Darren McCord]

Seems like that is a weird explanation.

Sullivan obviously brought up and believed in some of the plays in 16, following that it seems like it was over.

Sullivan only brought up guys from his WBS team. The only other person he brought up was Jake because Jake was too good right from the start. And Sid like playing with him,

 

[chethejet]

Dubas has to bring those roster decisions to limit Sullivan. In addition, Dubas knows he needs to get younger bigger ect.