News Article: Pittsburgh Magazine Roundtable Part II & III: Systems, Meltdowns and the Locker-Room

[Crafton]

a continuation of the talk from last week that only focused on Letang's play.

the panel is comprised of the following members.

Sean Conboy, Pittsburgh Magazine’s digital overlord and contributor to SI.com and Wired.

Rob Rossi, reporter for the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. Russian bias.

Sean Gentille, National NHL writer for The Sporting News. Supplied beers with expense account.

Chris Mueller, co-host of 93.7 The Fan’s afternoon program. Stupifies drive-time Yinzers with big words.

Brian Metzer, NHL.com/Beaver County Times contributing writer. Penguins Live Radio host. Show-off.

Derek Rocco, co-founder of the hilarious Pensblog. Lives in his own home, thank you very much.

Mike Colligan, NHL analyst at Forbes/The Hockey Writers. Could break down your life in 30 seconds.

Jesse Marshall, co-owner of Faceoff-Factor.com. Honk if you’re CORSI.

as i've said before i think Marshall and Colligan are very solid. Rossi is a known entity. as is the Pensblog dude. the others are alright. Gentille holds a pretty coveted position but i haven't read enough from him to make a decision about the quality of his analysis.

warning: on the whole outlook appears to be positive but there's some criticism.

some excerpts:

Marshall: Pretty much. We’re seeing forwards reverse the flow of play in the neutral zone to take the defense off guard. We’re seeing forwards start the breakout over again when they’re faced with situations they don’t feel are fruitful in regards to offensive zone entry. Sometimes you have to go backwards to move forwards, and a lot of the things the Penguins are doing right now, specific to the breakout, are things you’d expect from a team that was facing a wall of defenders night in and night out, like in the playoffs.

Rocco: I will say this right now, up front. I don’t think Brooks Orpik is the leader everyone wants him to be. I think he’d rather blame Malkin or Crosby than step up for them. I think you are right in saying this could be a problem down the line when things get tight in the playoffs. I think that is why we saw the trades for Brenden Morrow and Jarome Iginla last season, but neither one wanted that role. Leaders like Guerin and Gonchar don’t grow on trees, and any trade you make is a guess.

http://www.pittsburghmagazine.com/B...II-Do-the-Penguins-Have-a-Leadership-Problem/

Click to read more...

 

[IcedCapp]

 

[Crafton]

hahaha. oops. fixed it. and thank god for you my little brother sucked me into playing this game way back when:

also Mods: why did the picture re-size feature go the way of the dinosaurs? i thought it was a great feature.

 

[djt153]

not sure where those orpik comments come from, but it reinforces my prejudices so i accept it unequivocally as gospel

 

[The Big Dawg*]

I was listening to 93.7 like an hr ago, forgot the names of radio analysts that were on air. But they were talking about how most of the players don't have problem winning game in 6-5 fashion instead of playing defensive minded hockey. Apparently when they're on camera they talk the talk about getting better defensively, but off camera's they're content with high scoring games because they love that up & down hockey. Speculations like these makes me guess why nothing has changed in the last 3 years in terms of our defensive play in the playoffs.

 

[IcedCapp]

hahaha. oops. fixed it. and thank god for you my little brother sucked me into playing this game way back when:

also Mods: why did the picture re-size feature go the way of the dinosaurs? i thought it was a great feature.

<3

Thanks for sharing this, had forgotten part 2 was coming, but was really looking forward to it (that seems contradictory)

 

[Shady Machine]

Thanks for sharing Crafton. Nothing earth shattering here, but a pretty decent read.

 

[DegenX]

Thanks for sharing! A lot of it was just confirming what we've all talked about regrading J. Martin and the changes he's made. One thing I did find interesting ...

Marshall: Virtually every night the Penguins play, we sit and watch in awe of what Sidney Crosby does on the ice. He’s the best player in the world, but it seems like we only talk about him that way in one facet; as Sidney Crosby the player. His captaincy, dare I say, is undermined by virtually everyone in this city in a very unintentional fashion.

Have to say, I never really thought about it that way ...

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I think Crosby's captaincy, moreso than his play, gets undervalued the microscope more due to our lack of playoff success.

Rightly or wrongly.

 

[LetangInTheSO]

I thought this piece (parts I & II) made for interesting reading. A few scattered thoughts:

- No matter how much they try to defend Letang's mentality and emotional state, the kid comes off like a total brat. I still hope the kid puts it all together and plays his best years as a Penguin. That's my strong preference. But if he doesn't manage to do that, then I hope Shero masterminds a good Plan B.

- They raise the most salient point about our pathetic supporting cast. Sure, your best players need to be your best players. But likewise, your supporting players need to provide support. Ours don't. Honestly, I'd rather see a bottom-6 overhaul than one acquisition for the top 6. Ideally, I'd like both.

- They also make very good points about veteran leadership. I couldn't agree more with the point that we've never really compensated for the loss of Gonchar. It's clear that Gonch provided so much for these guys both on and off the ice.

- I also agree that our best players need to mature. I *do* buy into the notion that the book on the Pens is "piss them off." Malkin, Neal and Letang particularly need to learn to retaliate between the whistles, not after them.

 

[Shrimper]

This is a lot more interesting to read than the drivel spouted by Shelly Anderson.

 

[KIRK]

I love this quote:

Rossi: This Penguins team isn't hard to figure. They are built with their best players to dominate in the playoffs, and the NHL has decided recently to let its officiating turn the playoffs into tackle football with each advancing round. These Penguins’ superstars do not handle themselves well emotionally. So, basically, the playoffs become their Pandoras box.

If you're built with your best players to dominate in the playoffs, then why send each of them out there with one arm tied behind his back?

If you're built to win when Sid and Geno dominate, then do everything you can-- not just tactically but in terms of personnel-- to set them up to do that.

If you're worried about cap space, then start using all of those young defensemen on rookie deals and in controlled years instead of using 'marginally better' (a highly debatable proposition) veterans.

God, **** like this is just SO infuriating. Pravda was more open and honest.

EDIT: Here's another good one . . .

Rossi: The Penguins have never replaced Sergei Gonchar. He has become a huge part of my book about Evgeni Malkin, and without giving too much away, the interviews with Malkin and Crosby will clearly show how much he meant to both of them. Malkin rejects the father/brother analogy, and even more the mentor tag. Crosby rejects the influence in the dressing room. But what they both say about Gonchar is that he was a calming presence on the ice; that he was the smartest player on the team, but respectful of others, including coaches; that he was trusted to play in all situations, and most often played well in those; that they felt he would do the right thing with the puck on the power play; that he was never too tired for an extended shift; that he held himself accountable first, and thusly others followed his lead.

Compare that to the horse**** from guys like Orpik. You know, I'll hear Sid, Geno, guys like that blame themselves no matter what, even when the amount of blame or even any blame is unreasonable.

Has anyone ever heard Orpik say I NEED TO BE BETTER?

EDIT TWO: New Kirk mancrush . . .

Rocco: I will say this right now, up front. I don’t think Brooks Orpik is the leader everyone wants him to be. I think he’d rather blame Malkin or Crosby than step up for them. I think you are right in saying this could be a problem down the line when things get tight in the playoffs. I think that is why we saw the trades for Brenden Morrow and Jarome Iginla last season, but neither one wanted that role. Leaders like Guerin and Gonchar don’t grow on trees, and any trade you make is a guess.

 

[JTG]

I have been reading and listening to Scuderi quotes the last few days, and I absolutely love everything he's been saying.

 

[SEALBound]

The problems with this team are quite obvious. Biggest problem is that Shero nor Bylsma will change anything. Remember, we are family.

I can only imagine that Shero and Blysma are like the mom and dad that told the kids "Win or lose, we're going to Pizza Hut after the game! Just go out and have fun!" *Team gets slaughtered 12-0* "Good job everyone! Everyone got to play and no one gave up! Pizza Hut, here we come!"

That is the real problem. I just hop J Martin gets his panties in a bunch come playoffs time and really starts making his opinion known.

 

[KIRK]

The problems with this team are quite obvious. Biggest problem is that Shero nor Bylsma will change anything. Remember, we are family.

I can only imagine that Shero and Blysma are like the mom and dad that told the kids "Win or lose, we're going to Pizza Hut after the game! Just go out and have fun!" *Team gets slaughtered 12-0* "Good job everyone! Everyone got to play and no one gave up! Pizza Hut, here we come!"

That is the real problem. I just hop J Martin gets his panties in a bunch come playoffs time and really starts making his opinion known.

Part I was interesting.

Using the 'if Rossi is to be believed' (and, in this case, there's no harm in this info having been shared with him), Shero was offered for Letang by 'other teams' (probably one) a top five pick and a pick of top prospect. I suspect that was Carolina. Can't see it having been Colorado. Maybe Nashville or TB or FLA.

I recall a few people talking about a few of those teams as targets when the fun before the draft with Letang speculation was going on.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I love this quote:

Rossi: This Penguins team isn't hard to figure. They are built with their best players to dominate in the playoffs, and the NHL has decided recently to let its officiating turn the playoffs into tackle football with each advancing round. These Penguins’ superstars do not handle themselves well emotionally. So, basically, the playoffs become their Pandoras box.

If you're built with your best players to dominate in the playoffs, then why send each of them out there with one arm tied behind his back?

If you're built to win when Sid and Geno dominate, then do everything you can-- not just tactically but in terms of personnel-- to set them up to do that.

If you're worried about cap space, then start using all of those young defensemen on rookie deals and in controlled years instead of using 'marginally better' (a highly debatable proposition) veterans.

God, **** like this is just SO infuriating. Pravda was more open and honest.

I have no idea what you're infuriated about.

Firstly, it's Rossi. When you find yourself agreeing with him, you should probably re-think your position.

Second of all, your supposition that the Pens' current scoring wing situation when healthy is closer to '09 than '08 is dubious. I want to hear your argument that Neal, Kunitz, Bennett and Jokinen is closer to Kunitz, Guerin, Fedotenko, and Talbot than Hossa, Dupuis, Sykora, and Malone. Not many teams can boast two better wingers than Neal and Kunitz, and Bennett and Jokinen do not constitute "tying one arm behind Sid and Geno's back".

Third, all indications are that Shero is pursuing a scoring wing to bolster the scoring wing ranks regardless:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Hockey+World+Finding+winger+Penguins+Crosby+easy/9378561/story.html

I mean, if you're infuriated over this, you might want to think about finding ways to lengthen the fuse.

 

[JTG]

The problems with this team are quite obvious. Biggest problem is that Shero nor Bylsma will change anything. Remember, we are family.

I can only imagine that Shero and Blysma are like the mom and dad that told the kids "Win or lose, we're going to Pizza Hut after the game! Just go out and have fun!" *Team gets slaughtered 12-0* "Good job everyone! Everyone got to play and no one gave up! Pizza Hut, here we come!"

That is the real problem. I just hop J Martin gets his panties in a bunch come playoffs time and really starts making his opinion known.

The real problem is that the team is injured beyond belief, there's constant moving parts throughout the lineup every single night, no chemistry can be made, and players on the downside of their careers are being given minutes they have no business being given.

I don't see anything Shero has done wrong, and I think after the deadline, people will be happy with him.

And the last sentence should just be omitted from this post entirely.

 

[zidell*]

- They raise the most salient point about our pathetic supporting cast. Sure, your best players need to be your best players. But likewise, your supporting players need to provide support. Ours don't. Honestly, I'd rather see a bottom-6 overhaul than one acquisition for the top 6. Ideally, I'd like both.
.

Bingo. All the whiners who cry constantly about getting another wing for Crosby haven't a clue about how to win in the playoffs. They on a cup because of 3rd line and they won't win another without drastically improving their depth. Losing Cooke made this team significantly worse. They needs some guys like him. No Evander Kane.

 

[KIRK]

I have no idea what you're infuriated about.

Firstly, it's Rossi. When you find yourself agreeing with him, you should probably re-think your position.

Second of all, your supposition that the Pens' current scoring wing situation when healthy is closer to '09 than '08 is dubious. I want to hear your argument that Neal, Kunitz, Bennett and Jokinen is closer to Kunitz, Guerin, Fedotenko, and Talbot than Hossa, Dupuis, Sykora, and Malone. Not many teams can boast two better wingers than Neal and Kunitz, and Bennett and Jokinen do not constitute "tying one arm behind Sid and Geno's back".

Third, all indications are that Shero is pursuing a scoring wing to bolster the scoring wing ranks regardless:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Hockey+World+Finding+winger+Penguins+Crosby+easy/9378561/story.html

I mean, if you're infuriated over this, you might want to think about finding ways to lengthen the fuse.

I agree with Rossi that the Pens live or die with Sid and Geno.

But, somehow, in your warped mind, you extrapolate THAT to imply complete agreement about everything with Rossi.

WTF do you think, they live and die with Gladams?

Holy ****. Capp is right . . . gotta go convulse now.

 

[Shockmaster]

I agree with Rossi that the Pens live or die with Sid and Geno.

But, somehow, in your warped mind, you extrapolate THAT to imply complete agreement about everything with Rossi.

WTF do you think, they live and die with Gladams?

Holy ****. Capp is right . . . gotta go convulse now.

 

[KIRK]

That was cold.

 

[Shockmaster]

That was cold.

You know there's truth to it though.

 

[JTG]

And I would also agree that a revamp of the bottom 6 is as important as finding a top 6 winger.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Bingo. All the whiners who cry constantly about getting another wing for Crosby haven't a clue about how to win in the playoffs. They on a cup because of 3rd line and they won't win another without drastically improving their depth. Losing Cooke made this team significantly worse. They needs some guys like him. No Evander Kane.

I agree about the secondary scoring. I don't agree that you give Cooke that deal, he's cooled off significantly since the start of the year, and can no longer provide consistent scoring from the 3rd line.

But I would much rather add two solid top 9 wingers with futures and impending UFA's than gut the system for one good wing. It will be a lot more realistic to acquire those players too.

 

[MrBurghundy]

And I would also agree that a revamp of the bottom 6 is as important as finding a top 6 winger.

Very much so. There's not much to like about the bottom 6 right now.