Proposal: Pit-Tor

[Mad Brills*]

Points aren't everything......

 

[snowkiddin]

Gonna say something that will certainly cause World War 3, but... I just don't think JVR is worth that much

 

[wej20]

Why yes, i am familiar. Last season P A Parenteau finished with 1 more point than Kunitz (let that sink in), he was cheaper as well.....and we couldn't find a taker at the deadline. So please enlighten me on how Kunitz was a lock to land us anything, let alone more than Spaling.

Reputation, experience, grit and defensive ability. There are four reasons.

 

[Russian Factor]

Pouliot has good rate stats and has shown tremendous poise and flashes of skill when he's actually able to get extended playing time. People view him as a borderline bust but that is in no way the case. He lacks a good sample size to evaluate from though, which is why it doesn't make sense to include him as a big piece in trades right now. Other teams are wary of spending assets on him, and rightly so. On our end, we would't get value for him. Doesn't really make sense for anyone at the moment. I love Daley but I think the move is to trade him to let DP get minutes and shed salary.

 

[Mats13]

Yep:



http://www.torontosun.com/2015/07/01/maple-leafs-trade-phil-kessel-to-penguins

Pouliot scored at a 32 point pace with 14 minutes a night. Morgan Rielly scored 36 playing 23 minutes a night. I realize it's a smaller sample size and their teams play a big part, but DP certainly hasn't done anything to see his value drop.

As for the proposal, it seems pretty good value-wise, but I'm of the opinion that DP's upside is too valuable for us moving forward.

1. Pouliot played 22 games. Rielly played 82.

2. Rielly put up 36 points on a team that finished dead last and who's highest scorer had 45 points. The Pens had 5 players who scored more than that and they're leading scorer had 85 points.

3. Rielly scores while having to shut down other teams top lines.

4. Your math is off. Pouliot wasn't pacing for 32 points.

Don't try to compare Pouliot to Rielly. There is no comparison.

As for the proposal, no. Contrary to what some trade happy Leafs fans would have you believe, we actually want to keep JVR.

 

[mashedpotato]

Straight up garbage

I can't stop laughing...

 

[Drew311]

One was shutting down top lines... And not playing PP minutes half the year..

I'm not sure how much actual shutting down was going on lol.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Just curious where you're getting that from. Looking at his career NHL numbers and his individual season numbers, he's never come close to a 32 pts pace.

My bad, used the wrong number...he scored at .32 P/G last season.

Pouliot was on pace for 26 pts, all at ES, with 14 minutes ESTOI/G.

Rielly scored 27 ES points last year with 19 minutes ESTOI/G.

One was shutting down top lines... And not playing PP minutes half the year..

Yes, well, Rielly is the better player.

Buut as for the PP, Rielly averaged 3 minutes of PPTOI/G, Pouliot under 1 on the 2nd unit. That's not an advantage for Pouliot.

1. Pouliot played 22 games. Rielly played 82.

2. Rielly put up 36 points on a team that finished dead last and who's highest scorer had 45 points. The Pens had 5 players who scored more than that and they're leading scorer had 85 points.

3. Rielly scores while having to shut down other teams top lines.

4. Your math is off. Pouliot wasn't pacing for 32 points.

Don't try to compare Pouliot to Rielly. There is no comparison.

As for the proposal, no. Contrary to what some trade happy Leafs fans would have you believe, we actually want to keep JVR.

What I'm doing is giving a frame of reference to people who said Pouliot's value took a hit last year. Rielly and Pouliot are PMDs from the same draft year, and Rielly is rightly considered untouchable.

Pouliot has produced comparably to Rielly in a limited sample size. He's obviously not in the same tier, but that's not my point. My point is that there's nothing to suggest Pouliot's value decreased last season, as suggested. He's produced well with the opportunities he's had.

 

[TDK67]

My bad, used the wrong number...he scored at .32 P/G last season.

Pouliot was on pace for 26 pts, all at ES, with 14 minutes ESTOI/G.

Rielly scored 27 ES points last year with 19 minutes ESTOI/G.



Yes, well, Rielly is the better player.

Buut as for the PP, Rielly averaged 3 minutes of PPTOI/G, Pouliot under 1 on the 2nd unit. That's not an advantage for Pouliot.



What I'm doing is giving a frame of reference to people who said Pouliot's value took a hit last year. Rielly and Pouliot are PMDs from the same draft year, and Rielly is rightly considered untouchable.

Pouliot has produced comparably to Rielly in a limited sample size. He's obviously not in the same tier, but that's not my point. My point is that there's nothing to suggest Pouliot's value decreased last season, as suggested. He's produced well with the opportunities he's had.

No worries about the mix up, just checking to see if I was missing something.

That said, you messed up one more thing here--Rielly average 1:50 PPTOI/game which is less than 2 minutes. He was intentionally underutilized on the PP for most of the year as Babcock wanted him to focus on his defense.

As for the ES scoring...increase in TOI doesn't mean scoring automatically increases, but I wouldn't be surprised since at this moment DP's supporting cast is far, far, far, FAR better than Rielly's in terms of production.

If/when the Leafs improve as a team then I could feasibly see Rielly putting up 40-50 points per year as a #1D which I don't currently anticipate from Pouliot.

 

[Liferleafer]

Reputation, experience, grit and defensive ability. There are four reasons.

Describes a 3rd line winger....and his reputation? Really?

 

[34]

NOT A CHANCE from Toronto.

Pitts already hosed Toronto on the Kessel deal. No way we give up JVR too, we need him. He is our #1 LW.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

No worries about the mix up, just checking to see if I was missing something.

That said, you messed up one more thing here--Rielly average 1:50 PPTOI/game which is less than 2 minutes. He was intentionally underutilized on the PP for most of the year as Babcock wanted him to focus on his defense.

God dammit, I gotta quit trying to multi-task and use the new NHL.com with a slow laptop.

As for the ES scoring...increase in TOI doesn't mean scoring automatically increases, but I wouldn't be surprised since at this moment DP's supporting cast is far, far, far, FAR better than Rielly's in terms of production.

DP had a better supporting cast, but that doesn't mean he played with them often. His 4 most frequent forward linemates were Kuhnhackl, Rust, Hagelin, and Cullen, and none of his points involved Crosby or Malkin.

If/when the Leafs improve as a team then I could feasibly see Rielly putting up 40-50 points per year as a #1D which I don't currently anticipate from Pouliot.

You might be surprised.

 

[Hogan86]

God dammit, I gotta quit trying to multi-task and use the new NHL.com with a slow laptop.



DP had a better supporting cast, but that doesn't mean he played with them often. His 4 most frequent forward linemates were Kuhnhackl, Rust, Hagelin, and Cullen, and none of his points involved Crosby or Malkin.



You might be surprised.

Pittsburgh's defense was fairly thin last year. Instead of using Pouliot on a permanent basis, they brought in Edmonton's cast off in Justin Schultz to fill in on the Pens back end. Now I'm not trying to rip Pouliot here, I think he will still develop into a second pairing NHL dman, and will very likely quarterback the PP someday. It's his lack of consistency in his decision making and his struggles in the defensive zone away from the puck which is why he can't crack the Pens roster.. Until Pouliot can show us what he can do over a full season in the show, we won't really know where his ceiling reaches.

 

[Dylonus]

Describes a 3rd line winger....and his reputation? Really?

You don't think Kunitz wouldn't have an impact as a leader?

 

[The Old Master]

Pittsburgh's defense was fairly thin last year. Instead of using Pouliot on a permanent basis, they brought in Edmonton's cast off in Justin Schultz to fill in on the Pens back end. It's his lack of consistency in his decision making and his struggles in the defensive zone away from the puck which is why he can't crack the Pens roster..

also they don't want to rush him...he might of done just fine...but they thought that keeping him down a little while longer would be much more beneficial "for him" than bring him up. even though he might of been able to play there.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Pittsburgh's defense was fairly thin last year. Instead of using Pouliot on a permanent basis, they brought in Edmonton's cast off in Justin Schultz to fill in on the Pens back end. Now I'm not trying to rip Pouliot here, I think he will still develop into a second pairing NHL dman, and will very likely quarterback the PP someday. It's his lack of consistency in his decision making and his struggles in the defensive zone away from the puck which is why he can't crack the Pens roster.. Until Pouliot can show us what he can do over a full season in the show, we won't really know where his ceiling reaches.

DP had an underwhelming camp, but during his call-up when Schultz came in, he was playing very well. But he's not right-handed, and not a veteran, so thems the breaks.

His ceiling is well-established. Whether he ever gets there is another matter.

 

[TorontoTrades]

ew, absolutely not.

Kunitz is useless and Pouliot can't stay in the NHL lineup.

 

[billybudd]

I thank God every day that he refudsed....the Kessel deal was bad enough...taking Kunitz would have been worse. As to the OP...easy pass. I wouldn't deal JVR period...but if it happened, it would be for a young established D..like Fowler at minimum.

?

The player he was replaced by was Nick Spaling. Kunitz has fallen far from where he was 3 years ago, but he's still worlds better (and worlds better-regarded) than Spaling.

Guy you should be thanking the stars for having vetoed a trade request is Rob Scuderi. Penguins should be too, by the way, as with no Scuds, Bowman doesn't lose his mind and trade us Daley for one of the worst players in the NHL.