Spring training results don't matter but still encouraged to see Bart smoking the ball again. I think there are big questions if he can repeat his performance from last year, it's encouraging at least so far.
Pirates Talk: That Skenes guy is okay at teh baseball
- Thread starter Zirakzigil
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Endy with another great game at the plate, he's now hitting .417 in spring training. It's making me feel pretty good about going into this year with Endy and Bart as their catchers, both are having strong springs. Yorke also had another double today playing 1B.
As of right now, it seems like their opening day lineup will be something close to:
1. Pham (LF)
2. Reynolds (RF)
3. Cruz (CF)
4. Bart (C)
5. McCutchen (DH)
6. Hayes (3B)
7. Gonzales (2B)
8. Yorke (1B)
9. IKF (SS)
Once Horwitz is back, I'm really curious for how they change the lineup. Pham is doing a really good job at getting on base so far in spring (.476 OBP from 7 walks in 21 PAs), and his speed advantage over Horwitz makes me think he's a bit more appropriate as the leadoff guy (if he can continue getting on base that is). If Pham can do that, I think I'd actually put Horwitz at #3 and slide Cruz and Bart down a spot. Horwitz's primary focus in that role would be getting on base and setting up Cruz and Bart to hit for power and get RBIs.
As of right now, it seems like their opening day lineup will be something close to:
1. Pham (LF)
2. Reynolds (RF)
3. Cruz (CF)
4. Bart (C)
5. McCutchen (DH)
6. Hayes (3B)
7. Gonzales (2B)
8. Yorke (1B)
9. IKF (SS)
Once Horwitz is back, I'm really curious for how they change the lineup. Pham is doing a really good job at getting on base so far in spring (.476 OBP from 7 walks in 21 PAs), and his speed advantage over Horwitz makes me think he's a bit more appropriate as the leadoff guy (if he can continue getting on base that is). If Pham can do that, I think I'd actually put Horwitz at #3 and slide Cruz and Bart down a spot. Horwitz's primary focus in that role would be getting on base and setting up Cruz and Bart to hit for power and get RBIs.
I think a big factor in Hayes' struggles in the MLB are injury related, not talent related. If his new swing can help keep him healthier, that's a win. Even if his old swing would yield better results if he stayed healthy (which he can't).
From looking at it, the physics of it make sense. Much less stress on that left shoulder by having a more controlled 2-handed swing. I figure his issues are with something like his lats so that swing should lessen the load on that. Likely results in less power but better contact and better health.
From looking at it, the physics of it make sense. Much less stress on that left shoulder by having a more controlled 2-handed swing. I figure his issues are with something like his lats so that swing should lessen the load on that. Likely results in less power but better contact and better health.
Literally the clips of Hayes are him slicing the ball as always, just with two hands. If he played golf, he would slice every ball out of bounds - the sidespin to right field is insane and not productive
He's pulled a couple fly balls in spring so far from what I've seen, but it all just comes down to whether he can actually maintain being healthy. It feels like there are two hurdles to climb here: one is that if he is relatively healthy, then he can be an important defensive cornerstone and a supplementary, league average bat. The other is whatever step is beyond that.
The shit has kinda sailed on the latter given how bad the injuries have consistently been. I fully believe you can just chuck entire seasons from the record when a player had chronic injuries, but that doesn't mean you can be bold with what's in the future.
So yeah, this is just a long-winded way of saying he has to show the changes can stick and help keep him where he apparently is right now health-wise for the full season.
The shit has kinda sailed on the latter given how bad the injuries have consistently been. I fully believe you can just chuck entire seasons from the record when a player had chronic injuries, but that doesn't mean you can be bold with what's in the future.
So yeah, this is just a long-winded way of saying he has to show the changes can stick and help keep him where he apparently is right now health-wise for the full season.
Yeah exactly. Hayes will never hit the offensive upside he was projected to have with these kind of swings, but you're significantly better off with a healthy Hayes with a mediocre bat than an injured Hayes trying to have a better bat.
If Hayes could be a league-average offensive bat, like a triple slash of .270/.330/.400, that would be immensely helpful. No question there. His defense also regressed to the eye test last year. Needs to get back to "best in the league."
Yeah ultimately I think we need to just give up on this idea that Hayes has any sort of real offensive upside beyond a 85-95 OPS+ guy and just be content with him doing what he needs to do to maintain that. He's still very cheap (I think he's only making $7 million a year going forward) and is well worth that with his defense if he's healthy. I'd rather him do what he needs to do to maintain that level than try to shoot for that perceived "upside" that will just result in him getting hurt.
It sucks that he's not going to be better, but a 3 WAR, 90 OPS+ 3B is still very useful and you can probably trade him for good value if you absolutely insist on getting a better hitter at 3B.
It sucks that he's not going to be better, but a 3 WAR, 90 OPS+ 3B is still very useful and you can probably trade him for good value if you absolutely insist on getting a better hitter at 3B.
Yes, the player that he was in 2021 would be adequate. We just need to derive offensive upside from somewhere, anywhere in our lineup. Cherington and Nutting completely punted on trying to make a marquee acquisition at RF - or upgrading DH e.g., overspending on Joc Pederson - when the need was obvious and the options were affordable. They got an intriguing 1B in Horowitz who then turned out to be damaged goods. And now we're back to hoping Suwinski is much better than originally thought, and counting on the Endy/Davis/Bart triumvirate where only one has shown any offensive ability in MLB so far.
None of the things in the above paragraph is Hayes' fault.
To me, the defense being bad last year is in the same category as everything else from last year. The season was ruined for him because he has serious, chronic back issues. It can be chucked out the window and if he is indeed healthy, then we can expect the defense to get back to where it was in prior years.
That's the main assumption with him, though of course I guess it's also possible for the corrections he is trying to make with torque etc. to have adverse impact on his defense. I doubt it, though. It just comes down to healthy or not.
Everything is always a giant question mark with this team. Even just one meaningful FA addition would give some breathing room to the whole litany of "if, then..." games that we have to play. I.e., 1) if the Central is as weak as it looks on paper/as weak as it played out last year; 2) if we get something from 2024 non-factors like Hayes and Suwinski; 3) if Endy/Davis and Bart give something; 4) if the pitching is healthy; 5) if the bullpen has been adequately rebuilt, then it adds up to the possibility of meaningful baseball in August.
There's also the caveat that given the state of the NL East and West, it almost certainly will take winning the division to make the playoffs, but that's not a conversation we should even entertain thinking about until we have about 3 months of information about the 2025 team.
It's also such a boring situation that I don't think is limited to the Pirates, even if we shouldn't use this as any justification for how ownership/management (I honestly don't know which) refuses to invest in the team. Almost every other team, even a team like the Yankees, seems to prefer to stay in their lane, try to make it to the later summer, and figure it out then. Outside of maybe the Mets and Dodgers, the years of aggressively trying to solve roster issues seem to be largely over. Teams are content to force the players to show that they are competitive into July before trying to tweak around the edges with low cost moves. This is the consequence of how absurdly valued prospects are in the contemporary game which in some sense makes things worse for teams trying to rebuild.
But, I guess what I am getting at is that it's easy to forget that the team still sort of cosplayed as in the race last year. It's genuinely hard for me to remember what it was like before the complete and total free fall (maybe I could try and go back to my long-winded recaps and check to see, but I did a bad job archiving them and now just don't care). I think it was still the same frustrating mediocrity for the entire year, but the team was able to win enough to be relevant. Obviously, Cherington failed miserably at the trade deadline with the comic addition of BDLC and a continued head scratcher situation with IKF, but the fact remains that as of Aug 1 last year, we had a 55-53 record and were 6 games behind the Brewers.
Anyways, I think they are just banking on more of the same, maybe boosting the wins a bit more around the edges. If the pitching is actually healthy, then it's not the worst bet you can make, but there's just minimal margin for error. If you bank on always winning 2/3 of the Skenes, Jones, and Keller starts, and having an ok shot with the Heaney and Falter starts, it's not that hard to see 3-2, 6-4, 9-6, 12-8, 15-10, etc. But to convert those with such a weak offense, you need an elite pen, and I don't think we're there yet. Just 1 real bat would allow you to eek out a little bit more and actually exploit the advantage you have over the division in this category. As it stands, the Cubs have that with Kyle Tucker, the Brewers probably with multiple guys, but Reynolds and Cruz are not that guy. Santander might be a stretch to be that type of guy, but it would be way better than what we have, and a modest signing like Pederson would at least allow a situation where Pederson/Reynolds/Cruz can become that guy for a week or so at a time.
That's the main assumption with him, though of course I guess it's also possible for the corrections he is trying to make with torque etc. to have adverse impact on his defense. I doubt it, though. It just comes down to healthy or not.
Everything is always a giant question mark with this team. Even just one meaningful FA addition would give some breathing room to the whole litany of "if, then..." games that we have to play. I.e., 1) if the Central is as weak as it looks on paper/as weak as it played out last year; 2) if we get something from 2024 non-factors like Hayes and Suwinski; 3) if Endy/Davis and Bart give something; 4) if the pitching is healthy; 5) if the bullpen has been adequately rebuilt, then it adds up to the possibility of meaningful baseball in August.
There's also the caveat that given the state of the NL East and West, it almost certainly will take winning the division to make the playoffs, but that's not a conversation we should even entertain thinking about until we have about 3 months of information about the 2025 team.
It's also such a boring situation that I don't think is limited to the Pirates, even if we shouldn't use this as any justification for how ownership/management (I honestly don't know which) refuses to invest in the team. Almost every other team, even a team like the Yankees, seems to prefer to stay in their lane, try to make it to the later summer, and figure it out then. Outside of maybe the Mets and Dodgers, the years of aggressively trying to solve roster issues seem to be largely over. Teams are content to force the players to show that they are competitive into July before trying to tweak around the edges with low cost moves. This is the consequence of how absurdly valued prospects are in the contemporary game which in some sense makes things worse for teams trying to rebuild.
But, I guess what I am getting at is that it's easy to forget that the team still sort of cosplayed as in the race last year. It's genuinely hard for me to remember what it was like before the complete and total free fall (maybe I could try and go back to my long-winded recaps and check to see, but I did a bad job archiving them and now just don't care). I think it was still the same frustrating mediocrity for the entire year, but the team was able to win enough to be relevant. Obviously, Cherington failed miserably at the trade deadline with the comic addition of BDLC and a continued head scratcher situation with IKF, but the fact remains that as of Aug 1 last year, we had a 55-53 record and were 6 games behind the Brewers.
Anyways, I think they are just banking on more of the same, maybe boosting the wins a bit more around the edges. If the pitching is actually healthy, then it's not the worst bet you can make, but there's just minimal margin for error. If you bank on always winning 2/3 of the Skenes, Jones, and Keller starts, and having an ok shot with the Heaney and Falter starts, it's not that hard to see 3-2, 6-4, 9-6, 12-8, 15-10, etc. But to convert those with such a weak offense, you need an elite pen, and I don't think we're there yet. Just 1 real bat would allow you to eek out a little bit more and actually exploit the advantage you have over the division in this category. As it stands, the Cubs have that with Kyle Tucker, the Brewers probably with multiple guys, but Reynolds and Cruz are not that guy. Santander might be a stretch to be that type of guy, but it would be way better than what we have, and a modest signing like Pederson would at least allow a situation where Pederson/Reynolds/Cruz can become that guy for a week or so at a time.
Not that this game matters, but this is a very entertaining spring training game.
Down 4-0 to start, but now up 5-4 with a 5th inning rally. A bunch of walks and singles without getting an out.
Their lineup today looks very similar to what it could be to start the year with Horwitz out. Hayes is also dealing with some back issues again, but he’s supposed to be back this weekend.
Down 4-0 to start, but now up 5-4 with a 5th inning rally. A bunch of walks and singles without getting an out.
Their lineup today looks very similar to what it could be to start the year with Horwitz out. Hayes is also dealing with some back issues again, but he’s supposed to be back this weekend.
Last edited:
Coastal Kev
There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
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