OT: Pirates Talk: That Skenes guy is okay at teh baseball
- Thread starter Zirakzigil
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Empoleon8771
Registered User
The narrative trying to push Merrill over Skenes down the stretch was hilarious, it was literally just "the Padres are a better team than the Pirates". Glad the voters didn't fall for it.
That said, Merrill deserved the ROY over both of the guys in the AL that finished #1 and #2. Kinda sucks for him because he also had a ROY caliber season.
That said, Merrill deserved the ROY over both of the guys in the AL that finished #1 and #2. Kinda sucks for him because he also had a ROY caliber season.
The argument I saw more of was "but he's an everyday player!!!". Which might have some merit if he was among the best in the game overall, like Skenes is/was. There's just no way to justify his good/great season over Skenes' historic/generational one.
ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
Reading the comments around the web from most non Pirates fans is just depressing. People are f***ing moronic and blind homers.
On one hand, backed by actual real data, you can point to 1 player having a historic, ALL TIME great rookie year, at the hardest position in baseball. A 22 year old who started the AS game and will finish top 3 in CY voting.
On the other hand, you have a player, who had a great year, but it was NOT historic in any way compared to other position players (rookies) over the past 100+ years.
And it doesn't matter. People are just ignorant f***ing clowns incapable of digesting logic.
On one hand, backed by actual real data, you can point to 1 player having a historic, ALL TIME great rookie year, at the hardest position in baseball. A 22 year old who started the AS game and will finish top 3 in CY voting.
On the other hand, you have a player, who had a great year, but it was NOT historic in any way compared to other position players (rookies) over the past 100+ years.
And it doesn't matter. People are just ignorant f***ing clowns incapable of digesting logic.
BusinessGoose
Registered User
Well, at least we won it, so, screw the other haters
Maybe this will get MLB to maybe create a ROTY for position players and pitchers...
I think skenes had far more of an impact on the team and league than merrill in ANY case
Maybe this will get MLB to maybe create a ROTY for position players and pitchers...
I think skenes had far more of an impact on the team and league than merrill in ANY case
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
Maybe you will be a believer when they sign Soto and Sasaki. That would be a crazy top of the rotation.
bigdaddyk88
Registered User
- Apr 21, 2019
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Especially when the pirates don’t get a bonus pick or bonus international money with him winning
ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
Oh, and don't forget Skenes hits FA 1 year earlier. So, in all likelihood, he'll be traded 3-4 years from now.
Unless of course Nutting decides to invest a couple hundred million on top of the near quarter billion he already gave out to Reynolds, Keller, and coughHayescough.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
I still think Pirates fans are far too dismissive of the idea that this team could sign Skenes, they just won’t be giving him a lifetime deal. This team has no chance of competing with Skenes in a UFA deal, but Skenes is so young that he’ll be hitting UFA super early. You could feasibly give him a deal that eats up his arb years and gives you a few UFA years, which still lets Skenes get his mega UFA in his late 20s.
The Pirates could get Skenes signed to a 6-8 year deal at money below $200 million, and based on the Hayes deal, it would likely be a fairly constant $20-$25 million a year rather than going cheap in arb and paying him UFA money after. Those deals have Skenes hitting UFA between 28 and 30, so he’ll still be in line to get his mega deal as a free agent.
If you want to be wildly aggressive and say his arb years are worth $95 million and his UFA worth is $40 million a year, they could make that a 7 year and $175 million deal that is just a flat $25 million a year. Skenes gets a lot of guaranteed money far earlier than he’d get it otherwise while the Pirates are still getting great value out of Skenes. The yearly money there isn’t a huge step up from what Keller is going to be making, and I figure they’d just trade Keller to be able to afford it anyway.
In reality, Skenes getting that guaranteed money up front would lower the amount of money he’d be getting in those years. I think 8 years and $160 million (flat $20 million a year) with an option extension after it could absolutely work, it just takes the Pirates being bold and aggressive for once.
The Pirates could get Skenes signed to a 6-8 year deal at money below $200 million, and based on the Hayes deal, it would likely be a fairly constant $20-$25 million a year rather than going cheap in arb and paying him UFA money after. Those deals have Skenes hitting UFA between 28 and 30, so he’ll still be in line to get his mega deal as a free agent.
If you want to be wildly aggressive and say his arb years are worth $95 million and his UFA worth is $40 million a year, they could make that a 7 year and $175 million deal that is just a flat $25 million a year. Skenes gets a lot of guaranteed money far earlier than he’d get it otherwise while the Pirates are still getting great value out of Skenes. The yearly money there isn’t a huge step up from what Keller is going to be making, and I figure they’d just trade Keller to be able to afford it anyway.
In reality, Skenes getting that guaranteed money up front would lower the amount of money he’d be getting in those years. I think 8 years and $160 million (flat $20 million a year) with an option extension after it could absolutely work, it just takes the Pirates being bold and aggressive for once.
ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
I mean that's all well and rosy but if you're not signing him to a 10+ year deal, what's the point?
This is, at least, a generational pitcher. Maybe even once in a lifetime if the arm holds. Allowing that to walk, knowing the monetary investment will be a great one, is exactly what Nutting will do and every human with a pulse knows it.
Pinching numbers just to eek out 1-2 years of FA seems like a wasted effort. This isn't Mitch Keller. Or Hayes, or even Reynolds.
Either pony up the cash or just trade him in a few years. And we know, based on every other great player this team has traded away, the return will pale in comparison to what we're giving up.
This is simple repetitive history spanning a generation.
Either Nutting needs to make an exception or Skenes would just need to love the low key nature of Pittsburgh and take a massive discount over what he'll get elsewhere. The latter makes no sense, especially if we're not winning games. So it comes down to Nutting and what the mafia (big market owners and MLB) wants financially.
This is, at least, a generational pitcher. Maybe even once in a lifetime if the arm holds. Allowing that to walk, knowing the monetary investment will be a great one, is exactly what Nutting will do and every human with a pulse knows it.
Pinching numbers just to eek out 1-2 years of FA seems like a wasted effort. This isn't Mitch Keller. Or Hayes, or even Reynolds.
Either pony up the cash or just trade him in a few years. And we know, based on every other great player this team has traded away, the return will pale in comparison to what we're giving up.
This is simple repetitive history spanning a generation.
Either Nutting needs to make an exception or Skenes would just need to love the low key nature of Pittsburgh and take a massive discount over what he'll get elsewhere. The latter makes no sense, especially if we're not winning games. So it comes down to Nutting and what the mafia (big market owners and MLB) wants financially.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Uh, so you can keep him for longer than just his arbitration years? What kind of question is this?
This just sounds like your whole “if the Pirates aren’t winning, relocate the team” nonsense. Saying it’s pointless to sign him for a couple of UFA years instead of a lifetime deal and saying they should trade him if they don’t sign him to a lifetime deal is silly.
bigdaddyk88
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Empoleon8771
Registered User
Julio Rodriguez got 12x210 when he signed his deal in his rookie season in 2022. Even when account for Skenes winning ROY as well, I don’t think 7-8 years in the $150-$180 million range is all that far off.
How the Mariners set up Julio’s extension is exactly how I’d want the Pirates to set up a Skenes extension:
Year 1: $6 million plus a $15 million signing bonus
Year 2: $10 million
Year 3-12: $18 million
Julio’s deal also has some complicated options and opt-outs, but if he’s taking that I don’t see why you couldn’t get Skenes for something like that 8x160 deal.
