Value of: Pickles (Coleman)

[BKarchitect]

Calgary are such a weird team this year. Their stars up front are dog manure compared to their reps but some of the support pieces are having absolute killer seasons. Sharagnovich has been on fire. Zary has been awesome. Pospisil has been a great surprise. And so on.

Which leads me to Pickles.

Coleman is having a career year at age 32. It's actually remarkable.

- He's on pace for 32 goals and 63 points.
- He's a SH goal scoring machine (along with Shara).
- His production is with almost zero PP time.
- He's playing top 6 even strength minutes (he and Backlund are third liners in name only)
- His +17 is more than double the next best number on the Flames (Zary at +8) and is tied for 4th in the entire NHL...on this Flames team...

I went to look up some of his advanced metrics, expecting to see something wildly out-of-sync causing this offensive up-tick. While his shooting % is on the higher side at 15.5%...that's really not all that crazy. His PDO is actually sub-1000 at 998. He's cleaning up on secondary assists but he's still got more goals than helpers and his G/A split of 50/50 is right there with his career average.

He of course is also a versatile veteran of multiple Cup playoff runs.

Would the Flames consider dealing him? Does his contract - $4.9 million over 3 1/2 more years through his age 35 season, effect his value at all? It's not much for a 60 point two-way guy, but it is fairly pricey for a 32+ year-old moving forward who could revert back to more of a workman-like 20 goal, 40 point profile fitting his career and is also a big chunk of change for contenders with minimal cap space.

Would the Flames retain to get a bumper offer or would they simply consider him a core veteran to keep around, ala Backlund?

Lots of Flames chatter but he's one veteran on that team that I haven't heard much about...

Click to read more...

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Nobody is going to pay what he is worth to the Flames. We are much better off keeping him as a role model for the kids on how to be a strong 2-way player in the NHL.

 

[Prairie Habs]

Weird to not bring up Vlasic in a thread about him...

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Weird to not bring up Vlasic in a thread about him...

It's a bit of a pickle to fit him in this thread.

 

[Bond]

I’m sure the Flames would trade him if there was a good bid without retention but I don’t see it happening

 

[InfinityIggy]

I'd rather hang onto him if we are blowing it up. Let Backlund, Coleman, Kadri, (and I guess Hubs) be the Veteran forwards to help bring the young guys along.

 

[Maukkis]

The teams you would love to sell him to are going to be scared off by the contract.

The teams you would be able to sell him to don't need a 32-year-old forward on a sizable deal.

Rinse and repeat for most veterans on 2+ year contracts. No deal.

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

Coleman is Pickles?!

That's weird, I thought Vlasic was Pickles.

Coleman is a barbeque grill

 

[Some Other Flame]

Flames won't trade him short of an overpayment unless he asks for a trade. They're not going scorched earth rebuild and will keep some vets around for the duration. And zero chance they retain salary on a contract with 3 years left after this one.

But this being HF what with so many still stuck in a flat cap mindset, will expect 50% retention to even start a trade conversation. So this isn't going to go anywhere.

 

[Larry Hanson]

As others have said, he's a great vet to have around and by all accounts he loves Calgary and doesn't want to move. Considering he has a NTC that would make a trade very unlikely. If for some reason a trade was to happen it would have to be an overpay and no chance the Flames retain.

 

[BKarchitect]

Coleman is Pickles?!

That's weird, I thought Vlasic was Pickles.

Coleman is a barbeque grill

Vlasic is named after pickles.

Coleman lives that pickle life.

 

[Captain Mountain]

He's 32 years old with 3 more years on his contract and a full NTC until the offseason. Great season and playoff pedigree aside, I don't see how Calgary gets an offer that justifies losing his contribution on and off the ice right now. Especially if we're talking about an in-season trade.

 

[AndreRoy]

Coleman is Pickles?!

That's weird, I thought Vlasic was Pickles.

Coleman is a barbeque grill

Quirky drink becomes community connection for Coleman

It’s only fitting to spotlight Blake Coleman on National Pickle Day.

www.nhlpa.com

 

[Lunatik]

Coleman is Pickles?!

That's weird, I thought Vlasic was Pickles.

Coleman is a barbeque grill

Coleman is called pickles because in college he had cramping issues and someone recommended pickle juice to him, every since he has used it to prevent cramping.

 

[Gurglesons]

I’d do Reilly Smith and Pickering for Coleman and a 2nd.

No retention.

 

[Lunatik]

I'd rather hang onto him if we are blowing it up. Let Backlund, Coleman, Kadri, (and I guess Hubs) be the Veteran forwards to help bring the young guys along.

I love pickles, but if we are moving out expiring deals, I'd also like to move out Dube and Coleman, I think teh return he (Pickles) could get is underrated and that talk of his contract is massively overstated, as he's a 35+ point forward that kills penalties, plays a 200 foot game as has a gritty side.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Dont see him waiving his NTC to be honest, signed here for a reason. If he was, his value is far greater to the Flames than another team.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Coleman is Pickles?!

That's weird, I thought Vlasic was Pickles.

Coleman is a barbeque grill

Back when he was on the Devils, Coleman was seen drinking pickle juice straight out of the jar during a TV timeout.
He's done this for years, to prevent cramping, hence the nickname.

 

[Double Dion]

I like Coleman so much. That said, he actually impacts winning in so many ways we should consider moving him in the right deal. Backlund too. We won't bottom out with those 2 on the roster. They could carry around the corpse of Huberdeau and still look like a real NHL team line.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I love pickles, but if we are moving out expiring deals, I'd also like to move out Dube and Coleman, I think teh return he (Pickles) could get is underrated and that talk of his contract is massively overstated, as he's a 35+ point forward that kills penalties, plays a 200 foot game as has a gritty side.

Dube for sure. I mean, if Coleman can get a really great return you do it. If its just another pick though, I would rather have him for the rebuild.

 

[DJN21]

in another thread a Calgary fan suggested something along the lines of Kulich+ 1st lol sooooo if that's the realm of expectations for a return I'd pass.

 

[Lunatik]

Dube for sure. I mean, if Coleman can get a really great return you do it. If its just another pick though, I would rather have him for the rebuild.

I get it, and I don't disagree. I do think however a return could be similar to (but a little lower) what the Devils got for him a couple years ago, which was a 1st and a good but not blue chip prospect.

 

[AndreRoy]

Dont see him waiving his NTC to be honest, signed here for a reason. If he was, his value is far greater to the Flames than another team.

Given that the reason was almost certainly money I don’t think you’d have a problem getting him to waive.

The second part is probably true though - he’s a good player but as others have pointed out his contract won’t work for most teams that could use him. Competitors can usually fit moderately-priced players on expiring deals or cheap players on multi-year deals, but fitting someone with Coleman’s combined cap hit and term on a team that’s already competitive is going to be a challenge unless either Calgary takes a multi-year cap dump back or the acquiring team happens to have a large contract expiring, no impending raises for key players laying claim to that cap space, and a desire to spend that cap space on an aging veteran who could well be having an outlier of a season rather than a younger free agent who is less likely to fall off in the immediate future.

Given that the latter is a fairly tall order you’re more likely looking at the former, and since Coleman isn’t the sort of player teams want to overpay for it’s pretty much a given that Calgary wouldn’t get what they would consider fair value for Coleman plus the cap dump coming back. So unless you’re going into a full rebuild and don’t mind eating the cap dump in order to obtain some futures for Pickles you’re probably better off keeping him as an example for the young guys.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Coleman is Pickles?!

That's weird, I thought Vlasic was Pickles.

Coleman is a barbeque grill

Coleman drinks pickle juice regularly. Thats how he got the nickname back in New Jersey

 

[AndreRoy]

I get it, and I don't disagree. I do think however a return could be similar to (but a little lower) what the Devils got for him a couple years ago, which was a 1st and a good but not blue chip prospect.

The key difference there (besides age) is his contract. Even if we assume his play doesn’t fall off a cliff, or at the very least revert to his career norm, he isn’t worth close to the same at $4.9M as he was at $1.8M.