Phoenix XXXIV: Project Mayhem

[Potrzebie]

"Potential owner Michael Hulsizer has the framework of a deal in place..."

What happened to Matt?

Obviously a blatant attempt to besmirch the good name of Matthew Hulsizer by comparing him to Rod Blajogevich, whose older brother had a friend named Michael.

It actually wouldn't surprise me at this point to learn that Matt has an evil long lost identical twin named Michael who has secretly been in negotiations to buy the team and move it to gain revenge against his brother for stealing Jenny. It was Michael, posing as Matt, who crashed the Cupcake Summit and revealed his true agenda of relocation to KC, while Matt was on a plane back to Chicago.

 

[ATHF]

It actually wouldn't surprise me at this point to learn that Matt has an evil long lost identical twin named Michael who has secretly been in negotiations to buy the team and move it to gain revenge against his brother for stealing Jenny. It was Michael, posing as Matt, who crashed the Cupcake Summit and revealed his true agenda of relocation to KC, while Matt was on a plane back to Chicago.

I thought they were cancelling all of the soap operas....that all sounds like something out of Pine Valley...

 

[Killion]

Sure it's a business, but it's more than that too. Hockey, like most sports, has a soul that deserves nurturing too.

Sure it does. But that "soul" is nowhere in evidence from Major Junior to the Pro's, replaced by the dollar bill my friend. Its all business. No room for sentimentality. Your only as good as your next shift.

 

[Killion]

I thought they were cancelling all of the soap operas....that all sounds like something out of Pine Valley...

Apparently you havent been paying attention ATHF. In addition to a Matthew Hulsizer Doppleganger named Michael wreaking havoc in Phoenix by way of Pine Valley; we have "The Balkan" possibly buying the Thrashers in Atlanta, an International Crime Lord who comes to us by way of General Hospital.

 

[Fugu]

I think there may be a misinterpretation how these disclosure of document requests actually work. If you or I want a document, we do not get to say, "I want any and all documents pertaining to this." and an entity, public or private just releases them. First, the request needs to be specific. "Please provide the AMULA for Jobing.com Arena and any work papers associated with it" or "Please provide all documents generated by a named party from this date to that date on a topic."

Once the request is received, it needs to be reviewed, the documents need to be gathered, then reviewed for responsiveness, then reviewed for attorney client privilege, any information that cannot be released needs to be redacted, the redactions need to be annotated with the reason for the redaction, the documents then need to be converted to a format that eliminates meta-data like .pdf, then indexed and finally delivered. This is a lengthy process and is not likely to be done in days or even weeks. It usually takes months.

I think their opinion of running a sports business is irrelevant. However, they seem to have had a right to ask for documents, as they did, and it seems that COG had several truckloads to deliver after the bond market was "chilled". Obviously, COG could have ignored these requests (the legality of failing to comply I leave to the legal guys) and closed the deal. They apparently delivered more docs and haven't closed the deal.

 

[CGG]

Actually, as I understand it a 7th Canadian team actually hurts the 6 Canadian teams, because they will have to share media revenues with them. As I understand it, CBC feels a team in Winnipeg has no value add for the network, doesn't hurt them and doesn't help CBC either. I would suspect the 6 Governors don't really want a team in Winnipeg, but that CBC just doesn't care one way or the other.

...

On the other hand, I would think the reverse is possibly true in the US. A Phoenix team moving to Canada might give each of the remaining 23 a slightly larger slice of the pie.

There are national TV contracts with CBC, TSN, RDS, VS and NBC. All of that revenue, regardless of the country it came from, gets split 30 ways. Having a 7th team in Canada doesn't cut into the share of CBC money that the other 6 teams get.

The only argument of any significant impact on other Canadian teams is local TV money. I'm going to guess that Manitoba is somehow in the Toronto Maple Leafs TV region, someone can correct me if I'm wrong. So, in theory, Toronto can be upset that they'll lose 1 million potential viewers from their fifedom as that will now be "Winnipeg TV area" from now on, although I'd argue that local TV areas are becoming increasingly insignificant and almost all games are available on TV / online if you really want to watch them.

Any argument beyond a potentially lower local TV contract for Toronto, or and projecting of unwelcomeness from any of the other Canadian owners, is wishful thinking or at the very least, misguided.

I'd like to know how it is that you understand that CBC feels Winnipeg adds no value. Extend that to TSN as well, since they have a national TV deal too. Understanding that any TV station's main goal is to maximize viewership, I'll ask these three simple questions, let me see if you still hold the same opinion:

(1) Would TSN rather be showing a Detroit - Phoenix round one series or a Detroit - Winnipeg round one series nationally in Canada?

(2) What would pull in better ratings on the CBC Saturday late game, Vancouver-Atlanta or Vancouver-Winnipeg?

(3) Would CBC rather show a Stanley Cup final that has one Canadian team or two American teams? Think the CBC would prefer a Florida-Phoenix final or a Florida-Winnipeg final? Which series would attract more viewers in Canada?

 

[Roughneck]

^^^

Manitoba is part of Sportsnet West so they're in Flames and Oilers territory.

 

[Killion]

.....and it seems that COG had several truckloads to deliver after the bond market was "chilled".

Hiring IronMountain Shredding Services outta Treetown to deliver the documents in the form of confetti didnt help.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Hiring IronMountain Shredding Services outta Treetown to deliver the documents in the form of confetti didnt help.

Its been reported that Conrad Black was driving the shredding truck.

 

[pegcity]

^^^

Manitoba is part of Sportsnet West so they're in Flames and Oilers territory.

Prior to Sportsnet west containing all prairie provinces, there was a sportsnet central, which I'm assuming they would re-start.

 

[Killion]

Its been reported that Conrad Black was driving the shredding truck.

..... Bernie Madoff inside ramming documents through the shredder for 15 cents an hour. No A/C. In Phoenix.

 

[DeathToAllButMetal]

When I listened to Goldwater's "suggestions" I felt they were sufficiently uninformed about the business of sports to be taken very seriously. I really don't want to get into politics, but they seem very much like the wave of Tea Party backed state governors in the midwestern and southern US. They don't truly represent the taxpayers of Glendale or Arizona, but rather a right wing political agenda. They are a member of a group that regularly disparages Canada for the health care system; mantains an anti-labor position and wants to reset the calendar to 1955. Politics indeed make strange bedfellows.

How on earth does demanding that a municipality not give $200 million to a guy to buy a hockey team make GW some kind of radical right fringe group? I don't see how that represents anything but common sense. Maybe GW is pretty right on a lot of issues -- I assume they are, but haven't researched it enough to check -- but in this case, they're straight-up fighting for the taxpayer and trying to kill a ludicrous case of government lining somebody's pocket for very sketchy reasons.

 

[Cornwall OHL]

Prior to Sportsnet west containing all prairie provinces, there was a sportsnet central, which I'm assuming they would re-start.

Sportsnet West is Sportsnet Central

Pacific = BC and Yukon
West = Prairies + NWT and NT
Ontario = Ontario except for Ottawa region
East = Quebec, Atlantic and Ottawa region
One = All of Canada

 

[bodybreak]

Prior to Sportsnet west containing all prairie provinces, there was a sportsnet central, which I'm assuming they would re-start.

Don't ever remember a Sportsnet Central channel, but Winnipeg's regional viewing area is rumoured to include all of Manitoba, northern Ontario (likely up to Thunder Bay) and some/all of Saskatchewan. I would also add Nunavut to that, based on geography. Winnipeg will be getting it's own area, not sharing what Edmonton/Calgary currently have 3 ways.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

I think their opinion of running a sports business is irrelevant. However, they seem to have had a right to ask for documents, as they did, and it seems that COG had several truckloads to deliver after the bond market was "chilled". Obviously, COG could have ignored these requests (the legality of failing to comply I leave to the legal guys) and closed the deal. They apparently delivered more docs and haven't closed the deal.

Any citizen has the right to ask for documents under "Sunshine" Laws, the local equivalents to Freedom of Information Act. I'm saying there is a process involved. One must request specific documents, and the process I explained needs to take place. without those reviews, redaction and annotation, there is a risk of significant liability. There are several posters very familiar with this. Art Vandelay does this for a major company in the Phoenix area. This is part of my area of expertise in the technology field and of course any posters who are practicing litigators would know this as well. FOIA disclosures are very structured.

There are national TV contracts with CBC, TSN, RDS, VS and NBC. All of that revenue, regardless of the country it came from, gets split 30 ways. Having a 7th team in Canada doesn't cut into the share of CBC money that the other 6 teams get.

The only argument of any significant impact on other Canadian teams is local TV money. I'm going to guess that Manitoba is somehow in the Toronto Maple Leafs TV region, someone can correct me if I'm wrong. So, in theory, Toronto can be upset that they'll lose 1 million potential viewers from their fifedom as that will now be "Winnipeg TV area" from now on, although I'd argue that local TV areas are becoming increasingly insignificant and almost all games are available on TV / online if you really want to watch them.

Any argument beyond a potentially lower local TV contract for Toronto, or and projecting of unwelcomeness from any of the other Canadian owners, is wishful thinking or at the very least, misguided.

I'd like to know how it is that you understand that CBC feels Winnipeg adds no value. Extend that to TSN as well, since they have a national TV deal too. Understanding that any TV station's main goal is to maximize viewership, I'll ask these three simple questions, let me see if you still hold the same opinion:

(1) Would TSN rather be showing a Detroit - Phoenix round one series or a Detroit - Winnipeg round one series nationally in Canada?

(2) What would pull in better ratings on the CBC Saturday late game, Vancouver-Atlanta or Vancouver-Winnipeg?

(3) Would CBC rather show a Stanley Cup final that has one Canadian team or two American teams? Think the CBC would prefer a Florida-Phoenix final or a Florida-Winnipeg final? Which series would attract more viewers in Canada?

The questions are irrelevant because it isn't my opinion. According to John Shannon on Rogers Sportsnet, who was an executive with CBC running Hockey Night in Canada, he was told this by CBC executives

 

[Confucius]

The questions are irrelevant because it isn't my opinion. According to John Shannon on Rogers Sportsnet, who was an executive with CBC running Hockey Night in Canada, he was told this by CBC executives

Well the execs that held that opinion should be canned, because they're morons.

Especially since it seemed like every other Saturday Maclean from CBC was drumming the why not Winnipeg drum on HNIC.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Well the execs that held that opinion should be canned, because they're morons.

Especially since it seemed like every other Saturday Maclean from CBC was drumming the why not Winnipeg drum on HNIC.

That was ron's personal opnion.

And its true. But it is more just a team than Winnipeg. If Edmonton lost a team and there was talk of getting it back it would be the same argument.

 

[Kitsune]

Hot stove said that Jerry Cogliano is trying to get a group together to buy the team......

 

[Fugu]

Any citizen has the right to ask for documents under "Sunshine" Laws, the local equivalents to Freedom of Information Act. I'm saying there is a process involved. One must request specific documents, and the process I explained needs to take place. without those reviews, redaction and annotation, there is a risk of significant liability. There are several posters very familiar with this. Art Vandelay does this for a major company in the Phoenix area. This is part of my area of expertise in the technology field and of course any posters who are practicing litigators would know this as well. FOIA disclosures are very structured.

I've seen these types of documents. Not fun to read through the black outs.

I guess I'm missing your point. COG has known since the beginning the challenge would be there from GWI. I don't guy that the timing and technical difficulty of producing these documents had anything to do with it. I think they and the NHL underestimated GWI and figured they could blow them off.

 

[htpwn]

Hot stove said that Jerry Cogliano is trying to get a group together to buy the team......

How the hell does Bettman keep convincing people to consider buying this basketcase?

 

[TGOTC]

Hot stove said that Jerry Cogliano is trying to get a group together to buy the team......

It's Colangelo. At least get the name right, he's a sports GOD over here. You guys better hope for an expansion team or something because when Colangelo gets his sights on something, it gets done.

 

[BrianSTC]

I'm lost again - are we now arguing over what social policies GWI may or may not support?

This argument loses me as well.

What difference does it make what "social" policies the GWI does and does not support?

So unless all Coyotes fans are liberals and ONLY conservatives want them to leave, I really don't understand this argument.

 

[pirate94]

It's Colangelo. At least get the name right, he's a sports GOD over here. You guys better hope for an expansion team or something because when Colangelo gets his sights on something, it gets done.

I'll correct you. Bettman met with Colangelo.

Bettman also met with former Arizona Diamondbacks and Phoenix Suns owner Jerry Colangelo this week, according to sources familiar with the situation. Whether that meeting was to gauge Colangelo and other local interest in the team or to solicit input about the sale is not clear.

I'm not sure why someone who had zero interest until now in a team that loses that much money would all of a sudden be hot to trot for it. Hey if you think he's buying it and it's a done deal, awesome. I'd say it's far from the truth.
Sports GOD or not, he obviously knows finances....and that's why he hasn't weighed in at all.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

I've seen these types of documents. Not fun to read through the black outs.

I guess I'm missing your point. COG has known since the beginning the challenge would be there from GWI. I don't guy that the timing and technical difficulty of producing these documents had anything to do with it. I think they and the NHL underestimated GWI and figured they could blow them off.

Sorry if I didn't explain well. The City has no obligation nor would it be prudent to anticipate what disclosures anyone might request nor place them in a hold repository due to risk of liability. They would be advised by counsel to simply comply with specific requests. Once a document is requested, the process of review for responsiveness, then review for confidentiality, redaction and annotation would commence. This takes a significant effort.

We can take this to pm if you like. I've been involved in FOIA process for the US Federal Government and disclosure for large corporations and I'm happy to go into significant detail with you.

The point is, responding is not a rapid process. It's actually complicated, quite expensive and time consuming.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

This argument loses me as well.

What difference does it make what "social" policies the GWI does and does not support?

So unless all Coyotes fans are liberals and ONLY conservatives want them to leave, I really don't understand this argument.

It's not an argument, but rather an observation.

The fans who just want this deal stopped because they desperately want a team in Winnipeg are cheering every move by a group that regularly disparages the Canadian system. I'm just observing the irony of it all.