Phoenix LXVII; Route66 - Aftermath

[blues10]

Against my better judgment, I'll ask these questions:

1) Who, specifically, benefits from this "acting job"?
2) What, specifically, does the entity(s) in Answer 1 gain because of the "acting job"?

*Note: Specifically means "be specific". IE- "They gain time" is not specific. Who/What exactly is gained by Jamison staging a fake purchase of the Coyotes?

It is my belief that GJ has been trying unsuccessfully for the past several years to secure investors to purchase the Coyotes. The "acting" is GJ "acting" as if he has investors when in fact he is still looking for investors. "Acting" as if he will be the majority owner when he most likely will be arena manager. The NHL would gain from his "acting" if he were to actually secure the investors required to purchase the team, keeping an NHL franchise in that geographic location and looking to "grow" the game. Not to mention the NHL's desire not to leave $300+ million in subsidies sitting on the table and to never be cashed in.

As for his job in NYC, pure speculatuion. Somewhere along the lines of TNSE being paid $5 million for their pursuit of the Coyotes in 2010 whic was reported in the media. I simply think GJ would like an NHL job instead of the cash. Maybe his office will be in California.

It's brief but I need to have my kid at the rink for a 12pm skate, good thing it is only 5 minutes away. Always a factor when buying a home, how close is the rink?

 

[CasualFan]

The "acting" is GJ "acting" as if he has investors when in fact he is still looking for investors.

The NHL would gain from he is "acting" if he were to actually secure the investors required to purchase the team, keeping an NHL franchise in that geographic location and looking to "grow" the game. Not to mention the NHL's desire not to leave $300+ million in subsidies sitting on the table and to never be cashed in.

By "acting" like he has investors, Jamison is going to fool other potential investors into a commitment? Do I have that correct? The NHL and Jamison are engaged in elaborate theatre to secure investors?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

why do u think we just had approved a MOU to end the lockout?

NHL Legal probably would've taken a lot longer to write the CBA, that it took to end the lockout....

the reason GJ hasn't been approved is because NHL Legal HAS BEEN DILIGENTLY working on the CBA.... IF YOU remember Bettman's introduction of GJ, Jamison's charge was getting a lease from Glendale, before the lockout imposed all league business to cease...

 

[Killion]

Jamison definitely wants this to go through, but that is perhaps easy to understand if he is not the one who has to put up the big money to make it happen.

Ya, I believe so as well. Its really completely implausible to suggest otherwise, that he's simply a marionette who's strings are being pulled by the NHL as there simply isnt a plausible explanation for them doing that. The reasons offered up ranging from "to give the appearance that he's a serious option thus providing artificial leverage in setting the stage for negotiations with potential Relo purchasers" really doesnt make any sense. Nor does the theory that he plans to purchase the team & then move it or sell it himself hold much water, as the terms of the Agreement strictly forbid such, and why would the NHL cut him in like that if even legally it was kosher? That Seattle, the only destination that would make any sense for Jamison who combined with Hansen & others is the end-game in say 4-5yrs? Never say never, but Man, thats a serious stretch.

By "acting" like he has investors, Jamison is going to fool other potential investors into a commitment? Do I have that correct? The NHL and Jamison are engaged in elaborate theatre to secure investors?

I love a good Conspiracy Theory, but ya, not seeing one here, and this one, "well, everyone else is buying in, guess I might as well", again, implausible. Fact is, the guy's a facilitator, a titular head to a group of investors. In addition to being removed from his natural environment of Northern California, I think he's also out of his depth, in deep water and in trouble in trying to stitch this thing together in Arizona.

Throughout, over the past year, theres been a lack of professionalism exhibited from what little has been shown that is extremely disquieting, and I mean everything from his website to his almost childlike pronouncements, lacking detail, substance. He strikes me as being a Passenger type personality as opposed to an 'A' type Driver. Admittedly due to the dysfunction of the COG & the Lockout he's had some obstacles to "wait out" but still, doesnt strike me as being a "Closer", the kind of individual capable of closing the sale, let alone affecting a full on resurrection of the franchise & building. I could be Dead Wrong, but I doubt it.

 

[Killion]

the reason GJ hasn't been approved is because NHL Legal HAS BEEN DILIGENTLY working on the CBA.... IF YOU remember Bettman's introduction of GJ, Jamison's charge was getting a lease from Glendale, before the lockout imposed all league business to cease...

HUTCH, this theory that "all league business was/is to cease during a Lockout or Strike" simply doesnt stand up to history nor really to logic. The Ducks sale was finalized during the last Lockout, numerous Sponsorship commitments were made throughout 04/05 and again just this past fall & so on & so forth. The games might stop on the ice, sure enough, but they dont stop in the auction houses, on the sales floor's nor in the boardrooms. Things dont just grind to a complete halt, be it at the NHL or club levels. Business elsewhere carrys on as usual, particularly so in the case of a franchise sale. Now, did the Lockout impede the process in Arizona? Sure, but no more so than did the municipal election in Glendale, the referendum & ballot issues, Doans signing, any other number of factors. The NHL, Jamison, whomever, multi-tasking.

 

[Whileee]

By "acting" like he has investors, Jamison is going to fool other potential investors into a commitment? Do I have that correct? The NHL and Jamison are engaged in elaborate theatre to secure investors?

I think that Jamison has been "acting" like he has investors so that he could convince the COG to approve a lease agreement that would provide a big subsidy, while he continued to search around for actual investors. The ruse was to keep the COG on a string, not the NHL. This is the same game plan enacted by IEH. They managed to convince the COG enough that they had the finances to complete the purchase to secure an exclusive negotiating window. Eventually, the COG discovered what I think the NHL already knew by then --- IEH was just hoping to get the capital together and wanted an approved lease and some time to peddle it to potential investors.

Sadly, that has been Jamison's pattern as well, with the main difference being that he managed to gain the favor of Joyce Clark and a few other council members while he continued to stonewall them on the status and identity of his investors.

So far, the balance of evidence appears to favor the view that he has misrepresented his success in securing investors. How else do you explain stories like this (http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/story/2012-08-08/phoenix-coyotes-sale-back-on-track-as-greg-jamison-reportedly-secures-investors), in the context of the continued delays in completing the purchase and the recent reports indicating that he is still searching for investors?

 

[blues10]

By "acting" like he has investors, Jamison is going to fool other potential investors into a commitment? Do I have that correct? The NHL and Jamison are engaged in elaborate theatre to secure investors?

No, by acting like he has investors he was able to secure a $300+ subsidy from the COG that he then has been trying to sell to potential investors.

It is a very good plan if he ends up securing all of his investors.

Edit: see post #831 - That pretty much sums it up

 

[Whileee]

why do u think we just had approved a MOU to end the lockout?

NHL Legal probably would've taken a lot longer to write the CBA, that it took to end the lockout....

the reason GJ hasn't been approved is because NHL Legal HAS BEEN DILIGENTLY working on the CBA.... IF YOU remember Bettman's introduction of GJ, Jamison's charge was getting a lease from Glendale, before the lockout imposed all league business to cease...

If Jamison had secured the investors and was just waiting to get the attention of the NHL, I think we would have heard about progress by now. Remember, the NHL season is ramping up, and if Jamison and the NHL had an agreement, we would have heard about it now to generate interest and sell more tickets in the Coyotes' market. The continued silence at this stage can only damage the profitability for the coming season, so I highly doubt that it is due simply to the need to work out some of the administrative issues with the NHL as the sale process proceeds.

 

[MNNumbers]

I think that Jamison has been "acting" like he has investors so that he could convince the COG to approve a lease agreement that would provide a big subsidy, while he continued to search around for actual investors. The ruse was to keep the COG on a string, not the NHL. This is the same game plan enacted by IEH. They managed to convince the COG enough that they had the finances to complete the purchase to secure an exclusive negotiating window. Eventually, the COG discovered what I think the NHL already knew by then --- IEH was just hoping to get the capital together and wanted an approved lease and some time to peddle it to potential investors.

Sadly, that has been Jamison's pattern as well, with the main difference being that he managed to gain the favor of Joyce Clark and a few other council members while he continued to stonewall them on the status and identity of his investors.

So far, the balance of evidence appears to favor the view that he has misrepresented his success in securing investors. How else do you explain stories like this (http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/story/2012-08-08/phoenix-coyotes-sale-back-on-track-as-greg-jamison-reportedly-secures-investors), in the context of the continued delays in completing the purchase and the recent reports indicating that he is still searching for investors?

Whileee (that's an interesting name on a Coyotes board, btw), Killion, CF and others -

I agree with this explanation of GJ's motives. I think there may be more to it in the case of the NHL, however. Let me try this:

NHL (Bettman, etc) interprets their situation like this: "We don't ever want to leave any city. If there is a separation between the NHL and a city in which there is a club, it is going to be because of the city, not the NHL." That is the way they view themselves publicly. It is their self-image of their public image. (those of us on this board know more details, but those things don't enter into how they think they have convinced others to think of them) Therefore, before the Coyotes can leave Phoenix, there has to be a strong public statement that "We don't want them here any more." "We can't make an agreement like that." Not in Phx, but elsewhere, it might go "We won't build an arena on those terms." Now, back to PHX. As far as I know, Glendale has never made a "Good bye" statement to the team, since it has been under NHL control. Therefore, the NHL wants to play the thing out as long as possible in the area, until there finally comes a "Good bye" from Glendale. Only then can there be a relocation (at least is the way the NHL sees it).

Now, I know that's a lot of Psychology, but if that's true, then it sheds a different light on the league appreciating GJ showing a little interest in the team, even if every one knows it won't go any where. They need him to play out the role of "Interested buyer with needs from the lease" until, finally, the CoG says "No way." It seems this point is nearing...

So, anyway, that's one perspective....

 

[CasualFan]

Jamison had to act like he had investors in order to convince a municipal government that did not require him to disclose his investors? That is a clever ruse. Seems a little unnecessary though, dont you think? Isn't it more likely that by this point, the city (Beasley, Skeete, and by extension the council) all understood they were lobbing up $300MM in the hope JIG would do this, not because they thought he had already done it?

 

[Whileee]

Jamison had to act like he had investors in order to convince a municipal government that did not require him to disclose his investors? That is a clever ruse. Seems a little unnecessary though, dont you think? Isn't it more likely that by this point, the city (Beasley, Skeete, and by extension the council) all understood they were lobbing up $300MM in the hope JIG would do this, not because they thought he had already done it?

That's one possible explanation. It begs the question as to why Jamison would even bother discussing his progress in securing investors over the past year ("weeks, not months", etc., etc.).

I think it's reasonable to speculate that the political situation in Glendale played into this as well. Acting as though he had investors might have been meant to provide a bit of political support for his backers on council, and perhaps even to support the sales tax increase.

Whatever the reason, it seems that Jamison has given an overly optimistic impression of his progress in securing investors. Time will tell whether his latest efforts have been more successful.

 

[rj]

By "acting" like he has investors, Jamison is going to fool other potential investors into a commitment? Do I have that correct? The NHL and Jamison are engaged in elaborate theatre to secure investors?

If you're a rich person and you're being asked to jump out of an airplane, it provides you some comfort if there are other rich people that are jumping out beside you, because it tells you "no, I'm not a fool, there are other people willing to take this leap". But I do agree with this...

I think that Jamison has been "acting" like he has investors so that he could convince the COG to approve a lease agreement that would provide a big subsidy, while he continued to search around for actual investors. The ruse was to keep the COG on a string, not the NHL.

...because the NHL would never want to portray themselves as being in a position of weakness in relations with the City of Glendale.

 

[GuelphStormer]

instead of an elaborate, coordinated and cunning effort of dozens of people, i prefer to think there are just a lot of really really stupid folks who have either stumbled or been dragged into this mess and have actually come to convince themselves that they are behaving responsibly and being effective. it really is an extraordinary story.

 

[Whileee]

instead of an elaborate, coordinated and cunning effort of dozens of people, i prefer to think there are just a lot of really really stupid folks who have either stumbled or been dragged into this mess and have actually come to convince themselves that they are behaving responsibly and being effective. it really is an extraordinary story.

That's a difficult theory to refute...

 

[OthmarAmmann]

13 business days left in January.

Tick tock, GJ, tick tock.

 

[CasualFan]

That's one possible explanation. It begs the question as to why Jamison would even bother discussing his progress in securing investors over the past year ("weeks, not months", etc., etc.).

I think it's reasonable to speculate that the political situation in Glendale played into this as well. Acting as though he had investors might have been meant to provide a bit of political support for his backers on council, and perhaps even to support the sales tax increase.

Whatever the reason, it seems that Jamison has given an overly optimistic impression of his progress in securing investors. Time will tell whether his latest efforts have been more successful.

To me, that sounds a lot different than Jamison is just an actor who is seeking a reward from the NHL for his theatrical effort. That sounds more like Jamison is point man of some rogue group who's selling the city that he can get this done. And now he's out trying to get it done. Not much of a thespian, beyond perhaps vocalizing his belief in his own abilities to put the investment group together.

 

[Dado]

The MOU is out. Including revenue sharing details. What is the consensus here on how much better (if better at all) this makes the Coyotes' situation?

 

[Whileee]

To me, that sounds a lot different than Jamison is just an actor who is seeking a reward from the NHL for his theatrical effort. That sounds more like Jamison is point man of some rogue group who's selling the city that he can get this done. And now he's out trying to get it done. Not much of a thespian, beyond perhaps vocalizing his belief in his own abilities to put the investment group together.

I don't for a moment think that Jamison has been mugging for the NHL to get some sort of ill-defined reward.

I think he genuinely wants to have a sports and entertainment business that operates the Coyotes and the Jobing.com arena.

I think he has had much more difficulty securing investors than he has intimated. His lack of candor is probably because if he had been forthright in his difficulties in securing investors, he perceived some risk that Glendale would shut him out and move on while he still hoped to secure investors.

 

[Edgar Halliwax]

So, how many fans were at the "first" practice for the Dogs today. Just curious...

 

[GuelphStormer]

To me, that sounds a lot different than Jamison is just an actor who is seeking a reward from the NHL for his theatrical effort. That sounds more like Jamison is point man of some rogue group who's selling the city that he can get this done. And now he's out trying to get it done. Not much of a thespian, beyond perhaps vocalizing his belief in his own abilities to put the investment group together.

ok, so he's not acting ... but do you think he is taking orders and/or special insight from nhl HQ re: his actions in phoenix?

a) do you think jamison and bettman/daly/etc. have regular conversations about this?
b) if so, do you think those conversation involve strategy for extracting money from glendale?
c) do you think jamison has informed bettman/daly/etc. who his potential investors are?
d) do you think jamision was informed by bettman/daly/etc. about the league's intentions/strategies/actions during the lockout, specifically in recent weeks and as it related to the timing of purchasing the coyotes?

there is an old distinction i used to use in class ... corporatism and instrumentalism. one is the state working in the interest of capital, the other is at its behest. both results are the same, but the motivation is different.

while jamsion may not be acting at the behest of the nhl, is he working in its interest (strategically with respect to glendale or tickets sales this year, for example)?

 

[Whileee]

The MOU is out. Including revenue sharing details. What is the consensus here on how much better (if better at all) this makes the Coyotes' situation?

I think it will be difficult to know for sure. They have been a very low payroll team, so I expect that regardless of the new rules, payroll can go nowhere but up.

The revenue sharing amount seems a bit vague, since a team's actual share is going to be fungible and determined to some degree by a "Committee". So, it seems that the Coyotes' share will be partly determined by the financial performance of other teams in need. If a few other teams are in greater trouble than the Coyotes, then less share would go to the Coyotes, I would think. I wonder whether the AMF will count towards HRR. If so, it might actually offset revenue sharing if it increases the Coyotes revenue compared to another team. Or could the "committee" decide that the Coyotes don't need as much revenue sharing because of their large subsidy and sweet lease agreement, even if the AMF is not counted as HRR per se?

 

[Whileee]

ok, so he's not acting ... but do you think he is taking orders and/or special insight from nhl HQ re: his actions in phoenix?

a) do you think jamison and bettman/daly/etc. have regular conversations about this?
b) if so, do you think those conversation involve strategy for extracting money from glendale?
c) do you think jamison has informed bettman/daly/etc. who his potential investors are?
d) do you think jamision was informed by bettman/daly/etc. about the league's intentions/strategies/actions during the lockout, specifically in recent weeks and as it related to the timing of purchasing the coyotes?

there is an old distinction i used to use in class ... corporatism and instrumentalism. one is the state working in the interest of capital, the other is at its behest. both results are the same, but the motivation is different.

while jamsion may not be acting at the behest of the nhl, is he working in its interest (strategically with respect to glendale or tickets sales this year, for example)?

I expect that Bettman knows exactly where Jamison stands in terms of his search for investors.

If Jamison is likely to fail in getting investors, Bettman and the NHL have no interest in sharing that with the COG and the public. They probably would like the COG to extend the option on this lease agreement for as long as possible in case someone does step forward to purchase the team, and to maintain the perception that there is hope so that ticket sales don't crash this year. If the deal falls through, they would prefer to have the COG pull the plug. So, if no sale is completed by January 31 and the COG pulls the plug, I expect the NHL to say that they are disappointed, they still had hopes for a local sale, etc., etc.

 

[aqib]

why do u think we just had approved a MOU to end the lockout?

NHL Legal probably would've taken a lot longer to write the CBA, that it took to end the lockout....

the reason GJ hasn't been approved is because NHL Legal HAS BEEN DILIGENTLY working on the CBA.... IF YOU remember Bettman's introduction of GJ, Jamison's charge was getting a lease from Glendale, before the lockout imposed all league business to cease...

Didn't Jamison and the NHL supposedly come to an agreement in May? If thats the case they should be able to just dust off the contract and sign it.

 

[Mightygoose]

Didn't Jamison and the NHL supposedly come to an agreement in May? If thats the case they should be able to just dust off the contract and sign it.

From the presser in May, Bettman stated very early that it wasn't an agreement, just an 'understanding'.

All that needed to be done was the lease (take two) and Jamison finalizing his 'equity package'

So one would think they're all ready to sign and they're all set to go....in a matter of weeks not month...

 

[mesamonster]

I think that Jamison has been "acting" like he has investors so that he could convince the COG to approve a lease agreement that would provide a big subsidy, while he continued to search around for actual investors. The ruse was to keep the COG on a string, not the NHL. This is the same game plan enacted by IEH. They managed to convince the COG enough that they had the finances to complete the purchase to secure an exclusive negotiating window. Eventually, the COG discovered what I think the NHL already knew by then --- IEH was just hoping to get the capital together and wanted an approved lease and some time to peddle it to potential investors.

Sadly, that has been Jamison's pattern as well, with the main difference being that he managed to gain the favor of Joyce Clark and a few other council members while he continued to stonewall them on the status and identity of his investors.

So far, the balance of evidence appears to favor the view that he has misrepresented his success in securing investors. How else do you explain stories like this (http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/story/2012-08-08/phoenix-coyotes-sale-back-on-track-as-greg-jamison-reportedly-secures-investors), in the context of the continued delays in completing the purchase and the recent reports indicating that he is still searching for investors?

At least MH put $25MM in escrow to show he was halfway serious! What has GJ done to show how serious his intentions are? Absolutely nothing!