Philly Flu - urban legend or based in reality?

[seventieslord]

We've all heard that during the heyday of the Broad Street Bullies, opposing players would contract the "Philly Flu" prior to a game at the spectrum, ostensibly because they were afraid of playing the Flyers.

Now that game logs spanning the history of the NHL are available, this can be confirmed or refuted. If there are numerous instances of a player playing in the games both immediately before and immediately after a road game in Philadelphia, then the legend is confirmed.

But checking the records game by game and player by player would be too labor intensive. If anyone can quickly answer this question, I imagine @pnep can.

Click to read more...

 

[pnep]

Season	#PHI_FLU *
1967-68	7
1968-69	15
1969-70	15
1970-71	8
1971-72	11
1972-73	19
1973-74	17
1974-75	12
1975-76	9
1976-77	11
1977-78	13
1978-79	8
1979-80	18
1980-81	20
1981-82	28
1982-83	22
1983-84	11
1984-85	14
1985-86	16
1986-87	19
1987-88	22
1988-89	22
1989-90	25
1990-91	24
1991-92	23
1992-93	17
1993-94	20
1994-95	13
1995-96	17
1996-97	26
1997-98	19
1998-99	15
1999-00	21
2000-01	20
2001-02	13
2002-03	8
2003-04	15
2005-06	14
2006-07	12
2007-08	10
2008-09	15
2009-10	13
2010-11	12
2011-12	9
2012-13	9
2013-14	16
2014-15	19
2015-16	7
2016-17	12
2017-18	9
2018-19	17
2019-20	13
2020-21	2
2021-22	12
2022-23	13
2023-24	12

* - Skaters only

 

[pnep]

* - Skaters only

SEASONS_#PHI_FLU

tinyurl.com

 

[pnep]

* - Skaters only

SKATERS_#PHI_FLU

tinyurl.com

 

[Johnny Engine]

Question I have is, how prevalent are we assuming the Philly Flu was in the first place? Obviously teams weren't showing up with half their roster begging out of the game. If that was true you'd probably have some extreme cases that would be remembered as a famous moment along the lines of the Soviet Red Army walking off the ice. I'd I'm reading pneps numbers right, this is definitively not the case but I also don't think that's what the story would be.

Or if we're talking about a small handful of incidents where people in the dressing room knew or suspected the reason a teammate became unhealthy, does it take that many anecdotes before a narrative arises? Could the whole thing come from 3 or 4 stories, and if so, would that bust the myth or just add context to it?

The middle scenario in which you'd say, you either see it in the numbers or you don't, is that many or most games the Flyers played had one or two guys sitting out questionably. Again, looks like there's no support in the numbers for that.

 

[Staniowski]

The Philly Flu doesn't actually refer to players missing games when they played at the Spectrum (although it's often interpreted that way). It simply arises from the discomfort (in all it's forms) that teams, and players, felt in playing in Philadelphia in the mid-'70s. It was a discomfort that was probably unmatched in NHL history.

The Flyers were a very strong team, intimidating, dirty as hell, aggressive, ultra disciplined defensively...plus the Philly fans were hostile. Players didn't like playing there.

The idea of the Philly flu was a joke, or a way to explain why good players played poorly against this really good (and wild) Flyers team and their crazy fans.

The whole idea of players sitting out games is just a misinterpretation of the term.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Good heavens, he answered in the most thorough way possible in two hours...to this very specific prompt. I shouldn't be surprised at this point, but this is another one for the Legend of Pnep highlight reel...

Also, can we get a "was Ken Morrow soft?" thread...? Haha

 

[Gorskyontario]

Chris Nilan talked about knowing his teammates felt intimidated playing in Philly




I time stamped it, it was probably worse in the 70s.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Good heavens, he answered in the most thorough way possible in two hours...to this very specific prompt. I shouldn't be surprised at this point, but this is another one for the Legend of Pnep highlight reel...

Also, can we get a "was Ken Morrow soft?" thread...? Haha

And Ken Morrow didn't even play in the NHL during the "Bullies" days.

 

[Michael Farkas]

And Ken Morrow didn't even play in the NHL during the "Bullies" days.

Heh, good point. A residual flu, perhaps...

 

[Johnny Engine]

The Philly Flu doesn't actually refer to players missing games when they played at the Spectrum (although it's often interpreted that way). It simply arises from the discomfort (in all it's forms) that teams, and players, felt in playing in Philadelphia in the mid-'70s. It was a discomfort that was probably unmatched in NHL history.

The Flyers were a very strong team, intimidating, dirty as hell, aggressive, ultra disciplined defensively...plus the Philly fans were hostile. Players didn't like playing there.

The idea of the Philly flu was a joke, or a way to explain why good players played poorly against this really good (and wild) Flyers team and their crazy fans.

The whole idea of players sitting out games is just a misinterpretation of the term.

This of course sounds a lot more plausible than any of the other options (though a tiny number of incidents where someone sat out isn't impossible), but I'd still like to see something concrete on the etymology of the phrase.
A quick google turns up a small handful of articles that claim its both - missing games and playing scared - but none of them have any support for the part about missing games, nor any clue as to who coined the phrase. I did see a story about Clarke telling Larouche that he'd kill him if he touched the puck, and Larouche relenting, and that lines up with what I already thought about what Flyers games were like.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Needless to say "the Philly Flu" is not something that most players of the time would ever own up to, or for that matter share stories of, even now years after their retirement from the game.

However, I have talked to many players of the time and when asked about "the Philly Flu" they will confirm it's existence (with examples) but only off the record. Because of that I will not name those who suffered from "the flu" but will only say that it did exist and was more common than many want to believe.

For example, a long-time Toronto Maple Leafs once admitted and I quote "If any player says they weren`t scared playing Philly, then they aren`t telling the truth."

There are countless examples of players coming down with "fake injuries" before playing Philly in those years, told by many rookies who were pressed into action as their replacements. Trust me.

Also in talking to some of the reporters of the time, I have also been privy to many other examples of "the Philly flu", some of them including players who reside in the hallowed halls of the Hockey Hall of Fame.

To attribute specific names goes against the ingrained mentality of a player; however, plenty of opponents mentioned they had teammates who would come down with the ailment. Walt McKechnie was one who was quoted about having such teammates. Joe Micheleti said something about it, regarding teammates. Mike Richter mentioned it though I think that was more when he was younger based on his memories. Dave Poulin, from when the Spectrum closed, said after he was traded, that he had mates who were intimidated; so that extended into the 90s. Brad Marsh said prior to coming to the Flyers, he knew guys who would suddenly come up with issues.

We have these two HFboards users in particular who sound confident that the missing-games interpretation is a real one, and in particular @Canadiens Fan, also known as Todd Denault, is a published author whose research involves interviews with primary sources.

What they don't have is a bead on the original etymology, as Denault is operating in a world where the Philly Flu is already out in the air, and he's presumably asking his source "what's this I keep hearing about", at which point they might be inclined to yes-and him instead of challenging the idea.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

We have these two HFboards users in particular who sound confident that the missing-games interpretation is a real one, and in particular @Canadiens Fan, also known as Todd Denault, is a published author whose research involves interviews with primary sources.

I've also heard this as a likely etymology over the last 35 years or so.

 

[seventieslord]

@pnep thanks for that info. For comparisons sake, what do the numbers look like if we're talking about the Pittsburgh flu, or the Los Angeles flu?

 

[CMitchelli]

We've all heard that during the heyday of the Broad Street Bullies, opposing players would contract the "Philly Flu" prior to a game at the spectrum, ostensibly because they were afraid of playing the Flyers.

Now that game logs spanning the history of the NHL are available, this can be confirmed or refuted. If there are numerous instances of a player playing in the games both immediately before and immediately after a road game in Philadelphia, then the legend is confirmed.

But checking the records game by game and player by player would be too labor intensive. If anyone can quickly answer this question, I

We've all heard that during the heyday of the Broad Street Bullies, opposing players would contract the "Philly Flu" prior to a game at the spectrum, ostensibly because they were afraid of playing the Flyers.

Now that game logs spanning the history of the NHL are available, this can be confirmed or refuted. If there are numerous instances of a player playing in the games both immediately before and immediately after a road game in Philadelphia, then the legend is confirmed.

But checking the records game by game and player by player would be too labor intensive. If anyone can quickly answer this question, I imagine @pnep can.

On paper, and in terms of number of "feared" fighters, it seems like the "peak" Broad Street Bullies should have been LESS intimidating than in later years.

Dave Shultz vs three or more of Paul Holmgren, Mel Bridgman,
Behn Wilson, Glen Cochrane and
Dave Hoyda.

The peak Bullies also had Bob Kelly, Andre Dupont, Don Saleski, Ed Van Impe, etc., but none of these guys were particularly feared as fighters.

 

[pnep]

@pnep thanks for that info. For comparisons sake, what do the numbers look like if we're talking about the Pittsburgh flu, or the Los Angeles flu?

​

Season	#PIT_FLU
1967-68	10
1968-69	13
1969-70	2
1970-71	17
1971-72	4
1972-73	6
1973-74	18
1974-75	11
1975-76	14
1976-77	7
1977-78	19
1978-79	9
1979-80	15
1980-81	13
1981-82	18
1982-83	18
1983-84	10
1984-85	26
1985-86	19
1986-87	25
1987-88	24
1988-89	18
1989-90	17
1990-91	31
1991-92	32
1992-93	14
1993-94	20
1994-95	17
1995-96	16
1996-97	19
1997-98	18
1998-99	25
1999-00	20
2000-01	17
2001-02	9
2002-03	20
2003-04	16
2005-06	23
2006-07	7
2007-08	24
2008-09	12
2009-10	23
2010-11	14
2011-12	17
2012-13	6
2013-14	14
2014-15	14
2015-16	16
2016-17	11
2017-18	11
2018-19	6
2019-20	14
2020-21	3
2021-22	11
2022-23	13
2023-24	13

​

* - Skaters only

 

[pnep]

* - Skaters only

SEASONS_#PIT_FLU

tinyurl.com

 

[pnep]

* - Skaters only

SKATERS_#PIT_FLU

tinyurl.com

 

[pnep]

For comparisons sake

Season	#PHI_FLU	#PIT_FLU
1967-68	7	10
1968-69	15	13
1969-70	15	2
1970-71	8	17
1971-72	11	4
1972-73	19	6
1973-74	17	18
1974-75	12	11
1975-76	9	14
1976-77	11	7
1977-78	13	19
1978-79	8	9
1979-80	18	15
1980-81	20	13
1981-82	28	18
1982-83	22	18
1983-84	11	10
1984-85	14	26
1985-86	16	19
1986-87	19	25
1987-88	22	24
1988-89	22	18
1989-90	25	17
1990-91	24	31
1991-92	23	32
1992-93	17	14
1993-94	20	20
1994-95	13	17
1995-96	17	16
1996-97	26	19
1997-98	19	18
1998-99	15	25
1999-00	21	20
2000-01	20	17
2001-02	13	9
2002-03	8	20
2003-04	15	16
2005-06	14	23
2006-07	12	7
2007-08	10	24
2008-09	15	12
2009-10	13	23
2010-11	12	14
2011-12	9	17
2012-13	9	6
2013-14	16	14
2014-15	19	14
2015-16	7	16
2016-17	12	11
2017-18	9	11
2018-19	17	6
2019-20	13	14
2020-21	2	3
2021-22	12	11
2022-23	13	13
2023-24	12	13

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Confirmed that the Steel City Sniffles claimed more sick days than the Philly Flu at the peak of the Broad Street Bullies.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Penguins escaped a lot of goons it appears at a glance. Makes sense considering we've had very freewheeling offense for much of our history...

 

[seventieslord]

Just looking at 1972-73 through 1979-80 (that's kind of their heyday, right?) the total for Pittsburgh flu is 99, and 108 for Philly, which is more, but not enough to be considered statistically significant.

and yes, I noticed that the players getting the Pittsburgh flu tended to be enforcers. Is this because Pittsburgh has most often been a run and gun team where enforcers are "needed" less?

 

[Michael Farkas]

I'd suggest so, yeah. Also, our true heavyweight history is not very strong. Fight knowledge is not my expertise, but I feel like the Pens fight card would be among the weaker ones out there.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Just looking at 1972-73 through 1979-80 (that's kind of their heyday, right?) the total for Pittsburgh flu is 99, and 108 for Philly, which is more, but not enough to be considered statistically significant.

I think in terms of stories that have passed around over the years, 9 separate incidents of someone deciding they didn't feel like playing against the Flyers and coming up with an injury excuse is something that would be noticed and spoken about.
That's one if the "could be true" scenarios in my first post.