Proposal: Philadelphia - Colorado

[Richard88]

Or which player do the Flyers fans think they’ll lose?

for the Avs, I think it will come down to Graves or Jost. I don’t think Seattle would take JTC or Donskoi. Even if we wished they would. Esp JTC.

I doubt Jost gets exposed. Assuming that he's not demanding too much on his next contract he's really good value in the bottom 6 given his strong defensive awareness and PK ability.

I think Avs will go with this:

• Protected (7+3+1):
  • Mackinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog, Kadri, Burakovsky, Nichuskin, Jost
  • Makar, Girard, Toews
  • Grubauer

• Exposed:
  • Compher, Donskoi, O'Connor
  • Johnson (waives NMC), Graves
  • Francouz

• UFA: Saad, Calvert, Bellemare

If Johnson agrees to waive then I would think that Sakic would explore ways to trade Graves pre-expansion for a pick or two, in order to get value for him instead of nothing (perhaps from a team like Arizona who only have 1 Dman under contract next season), whilst also funneling Seattle towards one of Compher/Donskoi. Ron Francis might be tempted to select O'Connor though so that would be the only concern in that scenario.

 

[Starat327]

What position do you play on the Flyers?

"I have nothing useful to add to this conversation, but I need to speak loudest to confirm that I am, in fact, clueless."

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

33 year old Braun obviously wouldn't be the centerpiece of the package coming back. The deal is built around Timmins for Laughton, with Braun and Compher being secondary pieces to make cap and roster spots work.

I understand that move even less. 22 year old budding top 4 RHDs who can potentially replace EJ for the next decade don't exactly grow on trees. Why are we giving up a our (currently) best potential long term solution to our biggest need (EJ replacement) in an attempt to try to find a bandaid solution for a position where we have someone at least semi-capable, with some potentially really good pieces coming? I definitely trust Compher a lot more at 3C than I trust that EJ can stay healthy this season, so I'd much rather keep Timmins.

 

[Richard88]

I understand that move even less. 22 year old budding top 4 RHDs who can potentially replace EJ for the next decade don't exactly grow on trees. Why are we giving up a our (currently) best potential long term solution to our biggest need (EJ replacement) in an attempt to try to find a bandaid solution for a position where we have someone at least semi-capable, with some potentially really good pieces coming? I definitely trust Compher a lot more at 3C than I trust that EJ can stay healthy this season, so I'd much rather keep Timmins.

As I've said in a coupe of posts above, I reconsidered the trade after reading the responses and am in agreement that this isn't a smart trade for Colorado. We're better off waiting until the deadline and targetting a rental 3C from a non-playoff team with lesser assets than Timmins.

 

[Avelanche]

I would do this normally. I would guess Laughton just gets picked by Seattle or he makes jost or nuke get taken though.

 

[McJedi]

I doubt Jost gets exposed. Assuming that he's not demanding too much on his next contract he's really good value in the bottom 6 given his strong defensive awareness and PK ability.

I think Avs will go with this:

• Protected (7+3+1):
  • Mackinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog, Kadri, Burakovsky, Nichuskin, Jost
  • Makar, Girard, Toews
  • Grubauer

• Exposed:
  • Compher, Donskoi, O'Connor
  • Johnson (waives NMC), Graves
  • Francouz

• UFA: Saad, Calvert, Bellemare

If Johnson agrees to waive then I would think that Sakic would explore ways to trade Graves pre-expansion for a pick or two, in order to get value for him instead of nothing (perhaps from a team like Arizona who only have 1 Dman under contract next season), whilst also funneling Seattle towards one of Compher/Donskoi. Ron Francis might be tempted to select O'Connor though so that would be the only concern in that scenario.

LOCs are a dime a dozen. Avs would be very very lucky if that is all they lose to Seattle. High effort guy and I like him but come on.

The trade deadline? I know it’s closed in March. Does it reopen before the expansion draft? I tend to recall that it doesn’t so I’m not sure we can trade Graves after the season but before that draft.

I’d have suggested we expose Landy since he’d be a UFA but there isn’t a forward on your list worth protecting. So then I would just use the last slot on a pending UFA in Landy to avoid any drama. it’s not like I’d want to protect JTC or Donskoi. I’d be happy to have that cap space back if Seattle made the mistake of taking either player.

Graves can’t be protected in any scenario I see. He’s probably our Seattle sacrifice.

given we have Timmins, Helleson and Barron (2 goals and 5 points in his last 3 Q games) we can afford such a loss no problem.

Graves anchors our PK, #1 in the NHL, so he’s not going anywhere before this season concludes.

 

[Richard88]

LOCs are a dime a dozen. Avs would be very very lucky if that is all they lose to Seattle. High effort guy and I like him but come on.

The trade deadline? I know it’s closed in March. Does it reopen before the expansion draft? I tend to recall that it doesn’t so I’m not sure we can trade Graves after the season but before that draft.

I’d have suggested we expose Landy since he’d be a UFA but there isn’t a forward on your list worth protecting. So then I would just use the last slot on a pending UFA in Landy to avoid any drama. it’s not like I’d want to protect JTC or Donskoi. I’d be happy to have that cap space back if Seattle made the mistake of taking either player.

Graves can’t be protected in any scenario I see. He’s probably our Seattle sacrifice.

given we have Timmins, Helleson and Barron (2 goals and 5 points in his last 3 Q games) we can afford such a loss no problem.

Graves anchors our PK, #1 in the NHL, so he’s not going anywhere before this season concludes.

I get that O'Connor isn't the highest profile player, but given a choice between selecting Compher, Donskoi, or O'Connor, it's gotta at least be tempting to go with the young guy signed at league minimum. Remember that capspace is going to be Seattle's biggest asset, and selecting a low caphit player like him enables them to have more capspace to swing a big trade or two to take on cap dumps for 1st round picks.

Trades can be made at any point in the year. The deadline only stipulates that players have to be acquired before that deadline to be able to play in the playoffs. But in theory anyone can make a trade after the deadline, they just wouldn't be able to play in the playoffs. There's also precedent with a pre-expansion trade as Tampa did the Drouin-Sergachev trade just a few days before the 2017 expansion draft, and that enabled them to protect Namestnikov as well.

 

[Hockeypete49]

Well done on your homework, but I pass on this deal. Scott is a very underrated player who brings way more to the table than just points.

 

[skagittarius]

Protecting: Giroux, Couts, Konecny, Voracek, Hayes, Patrick, Lindbom, Provy, Sanheim, Myers

I'm not sure Lindblom gets protected. I know it's a great story with him being back and he's still finding his game, but right now JVR, NAK, and Laughton are more valuable to the team IMO. NAK is one of the few forwards playing an effective heavy forechecking game. Laughton and NAK are better skaters too.

 

[McJedi]

I get that O'Connor isn't the highest profile player, but given a choice between selecting Compher, Donskoi, or O'Connor, it's gotta at least be tempting to go with the young guy signed at league minimum. Remember that capspace is going to be Seattle's biggest asset, and selecting a low caphit player like him enables them to have more capspace to swing a big trade or two to take on cap dumps for 1st round picks.

Trades can be made at any point in the year. The deadline only stipulates that players have to be acquired before that deadline to be able to play in the playoffs. But in theory anyone can make a trade after the deadline, they just wouldn't be able to play in the playoffs. There's also precedent with a pre-expansion trade as Tampa did the Drouin-Sergachev trade just a few days before the 2017 expansion draft, and that enabled them to protect Namestnikov as well.

Given the choice of LOC, JTC or Donny, it’s LOC all day. Unless Donskoi appealed to Seattle for some reason.

JTC isn’t worth much right now. His offensive game is just too hollow. He’s not a horrible player like Lucic but he’s not worth his contract either. I’d consider trading an asset of value to Seattle to take JTC. Maybe even our 2021 1st rounder assuming it falls 29-32 OA. That’s as much to protect a Graves or Jost then it says about JTC, but I’d be happy with the result if Seattle ends up with JTC and a pick.

 

[Tripod]

I'm not sure Lindblom gets protected. I know it's a great story with him being back and he's still finding his game, but right now JVR, NAK, and Laughton are more valuable to the team IMO. NAK is one of the few forwards playing an effective heavy forechecking game. Laughton and NAK are better skaters too.

Lindblom was on a 30 goal, 49 point pace last year before getting cancer. For sure it took a toll on his body and we are seeing that this year. But next year he should be able to get back to what he was becoming and I 100% expect them to protect him.

NAK was on a 30 point pace last year and he is a 4th liner now and going forward. He will be exposed.

Laughton is a UFA so he doesn't need protecting and I expect he will get an offer elsewhere to play in the top 9. In Philly, he should only get that with injuries though when he does, he produces.

 

[Flyer lurker]

I'm not sure Lindblom gets protected. I know it's a great story with him being back and he's still finding his game, but right now JVR, NAK, and Laughton are more valuable to the team IMO. NAK is one of the few forwards playing an effective heavy forechecking game. Laughton and NAK are better skaters too.

Lindblom also has the most long term potential than the players mentioned. With Hart, Sanheim and Patrick to lesser extent getting raises in off season you need to make tough choices salary wise in flat cap world and keep the cost controlled choices.
NAK fills a specific need better but is not the better player.
Laughton out Frost in I don't see team losing that much next season.
JVR on fire but lets wait until end of season before we ever think of protecting him on ED. If he puts up a 58 point 50 game season with ppg in playoffs then lets revisit.

 

[Richard88]

How do Avs and Flyers fans feel about this trade proposal now a 6 weeks later?

 

[ponder719]

From a Flyers perspective, I think I'd be good with the Laughton/2nd for Timmins version. Braun hasn't been great, but he's at least been consistent, so we kind of need to hang on to him for now, and Compher would complicate our cap situation at a time when complications are seriously suboptimal. If you still needed to balance out the deal with a forward from Colorado and a defenseman from Philly, we could take Calvert or Bellemare for Hagg, perhaps (I say this with absolutely no idea if Calvert or Bellemare are important to your run this year, so if that's a problem, I totally get it) or we could ship Elliott your way if Francouz is done for the year.

 

[Richard88]

From a Flyers perspective, I think I'd be good with the Laughton/2nd for Timmins version. Braun hasn't been great, but he's at least been consistent, so we kind of need to hang on to him for now, and Compher would complicate our cap situation at a time when complications are seriously suboptimal. If you still needed to balance out the deal with a forward from Colorado and a defenseman from Philly, we could take Calvert or Bellemare for Hagg, perhaps (I say this with absolutely no idea if Calvert or Bellemare are important to your run this year, so if that's a problem, I totally get it) or we could ship Elliott your way if Francouz is done for the year.

Fair enough on not wanting Compher's contract.

Calvert and Bellemare are important, but I wouldn't say that they're immovable. If we acquire Laughton then Bellemare would be a bit redundant as we could put Jost or Compher at 4C instead; Bellemare's PK faceoffs are important though. Calvert has had injury problems but his game is ideally suited to the playoffs so I don't think Sakic will want to move him. We're more likely to keep those two guys as self-rentals as they're both on expiring contracts.

If we did need to move out a contract though maybe it's worth considering, but Hagg would definitely not be someone Avs would want back. The savings from Bellemare to Hagg is only $200k so it's kinda pointless, and Avs are already very deep at LHD. Elliott would be more interesting. If money needs to be balanced perhaps Pateryn could be included too - $2.25m caphit, but only $1.175m in the minors.

 

[ponder719]

Yeah, I don't see Philly having a problem taking Pateryn back, since he expires at the end of the year. Raw cash is never really the problem for us; it's always cap space. Honestly, we might even use him, since we've been reduced to relying on Nate Prosser recently.

 

[Tripod]

that deal is even worse for the Flyers today.

JDC is still way overpaid and has 4 pts on the season. The Flyers have 12 forwards with more points and still have Frost who is injured all year. No use at all for JDC.

Laughton....is Laughton. He just keeps on producing at ES. He is top 50 in the league in ES scoring for forwards...doesn't play on the PP as he is a PKer.

Braun has played well all season and has been playing next to Provy on the top pairing for a bit. He has been on the ice for the least amount of ES goals against for our D....only 13. Sanheim a team worst 33, Myers 24, Provy 23, Ghost 20.

AND we are the ones giving up a 2nd?

 

[Richard88]

that deal is even worse for the Flyers today.

JDC is still way overpaid and has 4 pts on the season. The Flyers have 12 forwards with more points and still have Frost who is injured all year. No use at all for JDC.

Laughton....is Laughton. He just keeps on producing at ES. He is top 50 in the league in ES scoring for forwards...doesn't play on the PP as he is a PKer.

Braun has played well all season and has been playing next to Provy on the top pairing for a bit. He has been on the ice for the least amount of ES goals against for our D....only 13. Sanheim a team worst 33, Myers 24, Provy 23, Ghost 20.

AND we are the ones giving up a 2nd?

Fair enough, thanks for weighing in. The 2nd would need to be there given that Laughton is a pending UFA and Timmins is a long-term solution at RHD. I doubt Timmins gets moved for a bottom 6 rental straight up.

 

[Tripod]

Fair enough, thanks for weighing in. The 2nd would need to be there given that Laughton is a pending UFA and Timmins is a long-term solution at RHD. I doubt Timmins gets moved for a bottom 6 rental straight up.

and that's fine....but Laughton has been playing as a top 6 scorer as ES for the past 2 years....again...top 50 in ES scoring this year....which obviously averages to 2nd on teams.

He doesn't get the spotlight at all

43 ES pts in 74 games the last 2 years....so 48 pt pace/82 games

 

[Richard88]

and that's fine....but Laughton has been playing as a top 6 scorer as ES for the past 2 years....again...top 50 in ES scoring this year....which obviously averages to 2nd on teams.

He doesn't get the spotlight at all

43 ES pts in 74 games the last 2 years....so 48 pt pace/82 games

One could also say that he's more of a winger than C, and that he doesn't have great possession metrics.

It's not only about him in this trade though. What other teams do you think would be willing to trade a young RHD with top 4 ceiling for a rental?

 

[Tripod]

One could also say that he's more of a winger than C, and that he doesn't have great possession metrics.

It's not only about him in this trade though. What other teams do you think would be willing to trade a young RHD with top 4 ceiling for a rental?

I know....but on sheer value...we can trade Laughton for a 2nd...and maybe a 2nd+. We can trade Braun for likely a 2nd+ as well.

And yes Timmons has that upside....Braun is that still. Not an ideal top 4....but he can complement the better PMD. Both Provy and Sanheim have played better with Braun as that reliable vet at their side.

JDC given his production vs cap hit....has negative value.

So any deal...whatsoever...needs to be re-set with JDC as not part of the trade.

 

[TheKingPin]

OP, are you available to become our new GM in Philly?

For Avs fans. Laughton is playing very well. Who knows how consistent or long that will be. But he would be a good player for you guys.

 

[Richard88]

I know....but on sheer value...we can trade Laughton for a 2nd...and maybe a 2nd+. We can trade Braun for likely a 2nd+ as well.

And yes Timmons has that upside....Braun is that still. Not an ideal top 4....but he can complement the better PMD. Both Provy and Sanheim have played better with Braun as that reliable vet at their side.

JDC given his production vs cap hit....has negative value.

So any deal...whatsoever...needs to be re-set with JDC as not part of the trade.

Sure, you can trade Laughton for a 2nd, or 2nd+. But a 2nd doesn't get you a 22 year old NHL-ready RHD with top 4 upside, which is Philadelphia's biggest need.

Braun might still be a middle pair Dman at times, but he's also 34 years old and thus has very little value.

As for Compher (it's JTC, not JDC), his value may be slightly negative due to the flat cap, and it's certainly valid to want him removed from the trade, but a bad 21 game stretch doesn't negate the fact that he produced at a 39 point pace (0.48 ppg) since the 2017/18 playoffs until this year, including 0.515 ppg in 33 playoff games. He's also playing out of position which affects his game a lot - most notably since his average distance from goal when shooting is much higher as a C than a RW, which is problematic as he's a player who thrives with crashing the net, but is less effective on the perimeter. A team who can put him at RW again can get good value for him if the Avs sell low on him.

 

[Tripod]

Sure, you can trade Laughton for a 2nd, or 2nd+. But a 2nd doesn't get you a 22 year old NHL-ready RHD with top 4 upside, which is Philadelphia's biggest need.

Braun might still be a middle pair Dman at times, but he's also 34 years old and thus has very little value.

As for Compher (it's JTC, not JDC), his value may be slightly negative due to the flat cap, and it's certainly valid to want him removed from the trade, but a bad 21 game stretch doesn't negate the fact that he produced at a 39 point pace (0.48 ppg) since the 2017/18 playoffs until this year, including 0.515 ppg in 33 playoff games. He's also playing out of position which affects his game a lot - most notably since his average distance from goal when shooting is much higher as a C than a RW, which is problematic as he's a player who thrives with crashing the net, but is less effective on the perimeter. A team who can put him at RW again can get good value for him if the Avs sell low on him.

Actually....a young RHD is our need in the land where everyone wants youth. What the need is a vet/prime RHD who can actually play great defense.

The Flyers have Voracek, Konecny, Farabee at RW....no need for JT there.
The Flyers currently have Couts, Hayes and Giroux at C....no need there
The Flyers have JVR, Lindblom and Laughton at LW....no need there

Then the Flyers have Patrick and Frost. They have no need at all for a 3 million dollar depth player. Even if JVR got picked in expansion and Laughton got traded or not resigned, and Raffl not resigned they still can ice:

Giroux Couts Konecny
Lindblom Hayes Farabee
Frost Patrick Voracek

And have Aube-Kubel, Bunnaman, Twarynski, Laczynski, Sandin, Kase, Allison, etc... for cheap 4th line depth.

there is no deal the Flyers would make to take on JT. If they wanted a 3+ million depth player, they will just re-sign Laughton.

 

[Richard88]

Now that Colorado have some capspace due to Johnson being on LTIR perhaps a contract like Compher doesn't need to be sent back.

Moneypuck puts Philadelphia's chance of making the playoffs at 11.5%, so it seems reasonable to assume that they'll be sellers.

With that in mind, how about a trade like Laughton + Braun for Timmins + 3rd?