Peters/Aliu Incident (UPD: no longer Flames HC)

[Svechhammer]

One extremely important thing here is that this far there (apparently) has been zero incidents under his current contract in Calgary. The contracts he served at time have already been ended in whatever way, and the incidents may have played a part in those decisions. There is no legit cause of termination that would have happened under the Calgary contract.

The coach obviously will go when he's told to go, but if there was a union for coaches it would warrant a union case.

The public opinion in a case like this in North America of 2019 obviously distorts everything, but I'm not sure "caving in for the public opinion" is the correct way either. It might give the populus a bad incentive to actively seek out anything that could be perceived as a transgression in a singled-out person's conduct since he entered a League affiliate to demand team management or coaches removed from his current employment. How they play out Peters will be a precedent.

That being said, it's not impossible that there may be some kind of actual or implied "general NHL Code Of Conduct" to which the coaches and other personnel of any team are contractually obligated to in "Standard Coach's Contract", which might greenlight a termination.

Akin to SPC Paragraph 2:



It maybe hard to legally apply such thing to conduct that happened prior the contract, but unlegally you can get out of any contract by paying money.

But: is it "honest", "moral", "fair play" and "non-detrimental" to let the mob rule dictate whether you continue to fulfill or not fulfill your legal obligations as an employer to a coach whose transgressions happened before your time?

The statement on that would obviously be hard to make at the face of the public opinion, and it's clear that the ensuing dustraction it would then become to the franchise would warrant a termination.

Still, in criminal law, the principle of "Ne bis in idem" is a corner stone. You don't get punished but once for one crime, and Peters may have already had the punishment in the form of his previous employment having been ended. We did already speculate if the Hurricanes organization asked for his resignation in and as the aftermath of the previous happenstances and other team personnel making it an issue. Technically that would cover for the Canes-era transgression not warranting further action in his later employment.

If his previous employment in Chi Town wasn't continued because he was considered a dick and the players stopped playing for him partially because of the Aliu incident... that's a thing to consider.

Unfortunately, it wont matter. pr wise, There is no way they can continue forward with him as their coach and it not be a complete and utter disaster. Most, if not all, contracts have a clause in there that basically says termination can occur if the coach's name becomes a PR stain on the organization. At this point they're likely just figuring out if there was enough there to void the buyout.

Just imagine the scene the first night that Peters returns to the bench if they don't fire him. There would be constant protests inside and outside literally every venue visit from both inside and mainly outside the hockey community. The league is going to want this over and done with as soon as possible.

 

[Lempo]

Unfortunately, it wont matter. pr wise, There is no way they can continue forward with him as their coach and it not be a complete and utter disaster. Most, if not all, contracts have a clause in there that basically says termination can occur if the coach's name becomes a PR stain on the organization. At this point they're likely just figuring out if there was enough there to void the buyout.

Just imagine the scene the first night that Peters returns to the bench if they don't fire him. There would be constant protests inside and outside literally every venue visit from both inside and mainly outside the hockey community. The league is going to want this over and done with as soon as possible.

This is what will happen.

 

[Roboturner913]

Caving to public pressure is simply part of doing business. So called “cancel culture” is far from this new phenomenon many people seem to think it is, this sort of thing has gone on for decades.

they’re gonna have to fire him, the look is just too bad. It’s not worth it for them to do anything else, especially since they’ve been disappointing on the ice as well.

 

[Lempo]

"Dustraction" is btw a word now.

It's what killed the dinosaurs. (Alvarez hypothesis - Wikipedia)


It would be very F26 if people came to lurk here in absence of a main board thread and found a dinosaur discussion.

 

[SvechneJerk]

Triceratops was a horney dinosaur. True story.

 

[Roboturner913]

My kid tells me was never a such thing as Brontosaurus, apparently they mistook a bunch of different and similar subspecies to be one megaspecies and now they’re having to rejigger the whole Brontosaurus knowledge base. So there’s that

 

[Lempo]

My kid tells me was never a such thing as Brontosaurus, apparently they mistook a bunch of different and similar subspecies to be one megaspecies and now they’re having to rejigger the whole Brontosaurus knowledge base. So there’s that

For a moment that was the case, but after developments Bronto is back to stay.

The Brontosaurus Is Back

The moral of the story: be a Brontosaurus, not an Apathysaurus.

 

[Joe McGrath]

I’ve learned more about dinosaurs in the last year from my 4 year old than any person should know.

 

[Roboturner913]

I’ve learned more about dinosaurs in the last year from my 4 year old than any person should know.

Do you plan on sharing, or ..... ?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Muller had a team that was trying to be a playoff team still. Peters got a rebuilding team that was built for the minors.

Below is the last year of Muller and first year of Peters rosters. Are you trying to say that replacing 51 games of Ruutu (16 points) and replacing Malhotra and Bowman with McClement and Malone is the difference between "trying to be a playoff team" and a "rebuilding team"? C'mon bleed. Not doubt there were puts in takes in terms of how games played, but to say that the roster given to Peters was a "rebuilding" roster doesn't hold much water. Sure, at the deadline, a couple of guys (Sekera, Tlusty, Harrison) were moved out, but Peters "got" the same roster Muller had the season before.

13/14	14/15
Eric Staal	Eric Staal
Jordan Staal	Jordan Staal
Jeff Skinner	Jeff Skinner
Elias Lindholm (rookie)	Elias Lindholm
Alex Semin	Alex Semin
Jiri Tlusty	Jiri Tlusty
Nathan Gerbe	Nathan Gerbe
Riley Nash	Riley Nash
Patrick Dwyer	Patrick Dwyer
Tuomo Ruutu	Victor Rask
Manny Malhotra	Jay McClement
Drayson Bowman	Brad Malone
Justin Faulk	Justin Faulk
Andrej Sekera	Andrej Sekera
Ron Hainsey	Ron Hainsey
Jay Harrison	JM Liles
Brett Bellemore	Brett Bellemore
Gleason/Liles	Tim Gleason
Khudobin	Khudobin
Ward	Ward
Peters

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I think it’s reimagining the past to try to take credit away from those teams now. We were headed in the right direction that definitely had a big failure the fourth season. Under Peters we went from being a dump and chase team to a possession based one where forwards held the puck longer, and dmen charged plays in the neutral zone. In the end we needed better forwards and better goaltending to make the system work. We did a good job of blunting the others teams offense, we had the puck a ton more. In the end it failed like any other system would here because it lacked the key ingredient we have now. Money.

As I showed above, what's "reimagining' the past is saying Peters inherited a "rebuilding" team. It's simply not true. No doubt the team got younger when Hanifin, Slavin and Pesce were added, but I would say that even as rookies (at least Pesce and Slavin), they weren't worse than the Jay Harrison's and Brett Bellemore's of the world.

At the end of the day, you are what your record says you are. Peters did some good things with this team so I'm not saying he was a bad coach, I just don't think he was as good as you seem to think he was.

 

[Negan4Coach]

My kid tells me was never a such thing as Brontosaurus, apparently they mistook a bunch of different and similar subspecies to be one megaspecies and now they’re having to rejigger the whole Brontosaurus knowledge base. So there’s that

Is that like how they keep telling us Pluto isn't a planet, and then it was again briefly and now its not again just to f*** with us?

 

[The Stranger]

How do you guys pronounce diplodocus?

dip-LO-do-cus or duh·plaa·duh·kuhs

Always was a hot-button issue growing up.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Do you plan on sharing, or ..... ?

What do you want to know? How many spikes a Stegosaurus has on its tail? What characteristics define a dinosaur in the ankylsaura family? What’s the difference between a dinosaur and pre-historic reptile?

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

What do you want to know? How many spikes a Stegosaurus has on its tail? What characteristics define a dinosaur in the ankylsaura family? What’s the difference between a dinosaur and pre-historic reptile?

What would happen if a T-Rex and a Triceratops got into a fight? Who would win?

 

[Joe McGrath]

How do you guys pronounce diplodocus?

dip-LO-do-cus or duh·plaa·duh·kuhs

Always was a hot-button issue growing up.

It’s pronounced differently on each of the 100 shows he watches. I think we settled on the 2nd one though.

Watching the Jim Henson conpany’s sitcom “Dinosaurs” back as an adult and with the benefit of all this new actual dinosaur knowledge makes me think it might be the smartest show ever created.

 

[Joe McGrath]

What would happen if a T-Rex and a Triceratops got into a fight? Who would win?

Triceratops traveled in packs to avoid this. One on one the T-Rex would likely win.

 

[Lempo]

What do you want to know? How many spikes a Stegosaurus has on its tail? What characteristics define a dinosaur in the ankylsaura family? What’s the difference between a dinosaur and pre-historic reptile?

Did some of them have feathers as some have recently suggested?

 

[Joe McGrath]

Yes quite a few

 

[Lempo]

I heard them velociraptors in reality were pretty much a bunch of glorified chicken.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Good to see this thread isn’t about food.

edit: until Lempo s last post

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

Triceratops was a horney dinosaur. True story.

ACCORDING TO CERTAIN HYPOTHESES, TRICERATOPSES ACTUALLY DIDN’T EXIST. THEY ARE JUST BABY TOROSAURUS.

My kid tells me was never a such thing as Brontosaurus, apparently they mistook a bunch of different and similar subspecies to be one megaspecies and now they’re having to rejigger the whole Brontosaurus knowledge base. So there’s that

AS LEMPO SAID. IT WAS SO FOR QUITE SOME TIME. BUT IN 2015, THEY FOUND ENOUGH ANATOMICAL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN BRONTOSAURUS AND APATOSAURUS.

How do you guys pronounce diplodocus?

dip-LO-do-cus or duh·plaa·duh·kuhs

Always was a hot-button issue growing up.

IF YOU LOOK UP THE LATIN PRONUNCIATION... THAT’S THE RIGHT ONE.

What do you want to know? How many spikes a Stegosaurus has on its tail? What characteristics define a dinosaur in the ankylsaura family? What’s the difference between a dinosaur and pre-historic reptile?

I WANT TO KNOW IF YOUR KID WATCHED ALL THE “WALKING WITH” EPISODES.

Triceratops traveled in packs to avoid this. One on one the T-Rex would likely win.

NOT TO MENTION THAT TRICERATOPSES HAD SMALLER BRAINS AND HAD NEXT TO NO PROTECTION FROM SIDES AND REAR.

I heard them velociraptors in reality were pretty much a bunch of glorified chicken.

NOW LOOK UP UTAHRAPTOR. THAT’S WHAT THEY ACTUALLY SHOULD HAVE USED.

2 METRES TALL WITH ALL THE SPEED, PACK HUNTING AND SICKLE CLAWS YOU EXPECT WITH IT.

BY THE WAY, DROMEOSAURID (RAPTOR) INTELLIGENCE IS LARGELY OVERESTIMATED BY PUBLIC.

THEY WERE SMART COMPARED TO OTHER SPECIES ... OF THEIR GEOLOGICAL PERIOD.

SO PRETTY DUMB VS RECENT DAY MAMMALS.

 

[Lempo]

NOW LOOK UP UTAHRAPTOR. THAT’S WHAT THEY ACTUALLY SHOULD HAVE USED.

... yes. This is bad news.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Our end of the Peter’s saga is a bit overblown, that’s becoming clear. The two moments Jordan mentioned are the only things that happened as best we know, unless more comes out. Francis didn’t turn a blind eye to anything. Maybe more will continue to come out.

Although I agree with your premise (the stuff in Carolina is a bit overblown), I disagree with your conclusion. Francis *did* turn a blind eye. He decided Peters was worth having a few players punched in the head. If he had investigated thoroughly and not taken Peters at his word, he may have found more. But he didn't want to. That's on RF.

What allegedly happened in Rockford is in a completely different category, as far as I’m concerned, from what apparently happened to Michel Jordan and the anonymous defenseman. The former is an offense worthy of termination, the latter is a stern talking to, at most. Imagine the pearl clutching that would be taking place if every player was live tweeting their experience under Lavi, Mo, or even Muller.

I wonder if anyone can honestly put aside the stuff that happened in Rockford when thinking about Peters’ time here. It’s not THAT bad. It’s not “Ron Francis should be fired in Seattle” bad. By all accounts it seems like the physical “abuse” stopped as fast as it started. Unless there’s more to come.
The other stuff is just “I hated my coach.” It’s as old as time.

You all are treating these as "events" that occurred, instead of looking at what they *mean.* Looking at the entire picture (Aliu, McMorrow, Jordan, Brindy, Tlusty, more we don't know) we see a coach who is a bad person. How can a person with character like this be the face of your hockey franchise? You can explain away individual incidents -- as Peters has tried (hilariously) to do -- but in the end, you're left with a picture of a man who has very poor character.

Yeah, for real. He should know better. In this day and age, you admit nothing. Deny, deny, deny, make counter-accusations. Groveling for these types of offenses just generates even more mob action.

Still, **** him, burn him down. Saying that to somebody under your command is disgusting.

Although I really DGAF if he whacked Jordan in the head on the bench though. I mean this is a sport where people are allowed to punch each others faces with bare knuckles, for christsakes.

And I don't see how this reflects poorly on RF. "Oh, your coach whacked a couple of rookies around, you should have known that meant he was a dedicated white-supremacist"

Again, what pisses me off to no end with folks who think the way you do is putting words in other's mouths. You have *never* seen the words you quoted above come from any of us. *Nobody* is saying anything close to that. But you can't make points without going to extremes like that. What that *should* tell you is that your points aren't valid. But for some reason, you don't have that self-awareness.

All Francis should have known is that Peters wasn't a great person. Add that to the fact that he wasn't a world-beating coach and that the players hated him, and he shouldn't have been extended.

I just can't see a scenario that Calgary and the NHL could spin to justify keeping him in place, even in your hypothetical.

See above. Peters is a bad man of poor character. This is clear. He's gone. The NHL is involved to protect Calgary (and Carolina).

His one legit chance to save his ass was this apology, and he ****ed it up.

It's like some people have no idea what actual remorse looks like.

Narcissism is a helluva drug.

 

[57special]

Excuse me if this has been already covered, but did Peters punch a guy in the head when the player had his helmet on? Because that's kind on a double ow, to me.

Usually bullies pick on those who are vulnerable (players on the bubble, not stars). They are cowards at heart. I wish the guys who were hit turned around and beat the crap out of him. The Aliu thing...tell us how you really feel, Peters. Again, a bully.

I've met some great people in sports, but every once in a long while you run into creeps that make your blood run cold. I have no idea if Peters is one of those guys, or if these two incidents are isolated, and not indicative of his character. I do know of a former player/coach who was involved in a horrible, isolated incident that basically ruined any chance that he might be a head coach of anything past the ECHL level, whereas he seemed to be on track to be a NHL HC before that. Sad, because it was a truly isolated, accidental incident in which no one was hurt(at least physically), and amends were made, but the optics are so bad that he can never escape them.

 

[The Stranger]

Is that like how they keep telling us Pluto isn't a planet, and then it was again briefly and now its not again just to **** with us?

What do you want to know? How many spikes a Stegosaurus has on its tail? What characteristics define a dinosaur in the ankylsaura family? What’s the difference between a dinosaur and pre-historic reptile?

My kids have a dinosaur book by the Smithsonian that says pterodactyls weren't dinosaurs...I was like GTFO.