Pete Rose passes away

Reality Check

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May 28, 2008
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I’ve never seen this, but Chad Curtis wasn’t exactly known for being the best teammate.
In fact, Curtis was a bigger dirtbag than Rose ever was. On and off the field.

But this was a topic at the time.

I also faintly remember being in my room and playing with my toys, while my tv played in the background. Lead story on ABC(didn't have cable yet) news was Rose being banned from MLB.

Then the commissioner croaked not even two weeks later.
 

HuGort

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I don't like what he did, no one should. That being said, he's right when he says that Ohtani was basically off the hook because of his interpreter. And all of the gambling in our face today in sports is just sickening. Rose did wrong, but man oh man was he ever born at the wrong time. They embrace gambling now. Not among the players, but still.

From his on-field play, he should be in there. Look, the guy is dead, and perhaps he wasn't the nicest guy but Baseball keeps shooting themselves in the foot here. All of the great players who took roids aren't in, Rose isn't in either. There are a lot of greats not in there. How do you tell the story of baseball without Pete Rose?
I think it's to discourage future players from betting on baseball
 
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Cas

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I don't like what he did, no one should. That being said, he's right when he says that Ohtani was basically off the hook because of his interpreter. And all of the gambling in our face today in sports is just sickening. Rose did wrong, but man oh man was he ever born at the wrong time. They embrace gambling now. Not among the players, but still.

From his on-field play, he should be in there. Look, the guy is dead, and perhaps he wasn't the nicest guy but Baseball keeps shooting themselves in the foot here. All of the great players who took roids aren't in, Rose isn't in either. There are a lot of greats not in there. How do you tell the story of baseball without Pete Rose?
There's no actual evidence that Ohtani did anything wrong, so this is a false equivalence (along with the fact that you can't bet on games you're participating in, which Rose eventually admitted to doing).

Additionally, the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum does "tell the story of baseball" with Pete Rose - his accomplishments are told in the big museum that covers the history of baseball in expensive detail. He just doesn't get a plaque, the honor that he doesn't deserve, which is telling in and of itself.

Honestly, the "story of baseball" angle is one of the most problematic and irritating ways to frame the honor of having a plaque. You can't "tell the story of baseball" without Fred Merkle either, but you can "tell the story of baseball" without Billy Williams. That's not the point, it's never been the point, and it's just a crutch invented to try and justify giving Pete Rose an honor he doesn't deserve, because he wouldn't know honor if it gave him odds on a horse race.
 

kingsholygrail

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Rose was banned permanently. He's still banned, and unless taken off the Permanently Ineligible list, will remain so until the end of time.
There won't be baseball at the end of time. Might not even make it to the end of this century.
 

Voight

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There's no actual evidence that Ohtani did anything wrong, so this is a false equivalence (along with the fact that you can't bet on games you're participating in, which Rose eventually admitted to doing).

Additionally, the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum does "tell the story of baseball" with Pete Rose - his accomplishments are told in the big museum that covers the history of baseball in expensive detail. He just doesn't get a plaque, the honor that he doesn't deserve, which is telling in and of itself.

Honestly, the "story of baseball" angle is one of the most problematic and irritating ways to frame the honor of having a plaque. You can't "tell the story of baseball" without Fred Merkle either, but you can "tell the story of baseball" without Billy Williams. That's not the point, it's never been the point, and it's just a crutch invented to try and justify giving Pete Rose an honor he doesn't deserve, because he wouldn't know honor if it gave him odds on a horse race.

I dont see how he doesn't "deserve" the honor. Hes literally one of the best players of all time.
 
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Cas

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I dont see how he doesn't "deserve" the honor. Hes literally one of the best players of all time.
Because he doesn't deserve any honors. He doesn't deserve a statue, he doesn't deserve a plaque, he doesn't deserve a retired number. He does not deserve to be honored.

How good he was as a baseball player does not play into it. Peter Edward Rose does not deserve any honors - not now, not ever.
 
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The grudge the league holds over Giamatti’s death is insane. Guy was a chain smoking overweight guy.
 

VaCaps Fan

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He originally banned Rose from baseball, but died a week later. He was going to work with Pete to get him back into the league. Fay Vincent blamed Rose for his death and banned him from the HOF in 1991.
 

kingsholygrail

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Because he doesn't deserve any honors. He doesn't deserve a statue, he doesn't deserve a plaque, he doesn't deserve a retired number. He does not deserve to be honored.

How good he was as a baseball player does not play into it. Peter Edward Rose does not deserve any honors - not now, not ever.
Your zeal is pretty amazing considering all the cheaters that are in the Hall right now.
 
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Blitzkrug

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Your zeal is pretty amazing considering all the cheaters that are in the Hall right now.
And which cheaters would those be? the majority of the major players from the steroid era have essentially been barred from the hall of fame.

Hard to feel sorry for Rose when he willingly agreed to the HOF ban to save his own ass from further investigation into his gambling.
 

GKJ

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Pete Rose’s hubris killed Pete Rose’s path to redemption. If he simply adhered and disclosed his transgressions, he likely would not have had a lifetime ban, or at least it would have been lifted. But he didn’t for years, and only moved on it when he believed it would benefit him to do it. He regretted being caught more than actually doing it.

Now, none of this is to mean that those who are/were fans of his aren’t allowed to feel bad that he has passed on.


“How do you tell the story of baseball without Pete Rose?”

I can do it quite quickly.

Everyone acknowledges he was a significant part of two franchises at the peak of their existences, setting a number of records, went to a shit ton of All-Star Games, providing a number of memorable moments, owning a very distinct and endearing style of play, over a very long period of time. All of which is overshadowed by later actions, forgiven only by some, others not for very specific reasons, and was ultimately his own worst enemy, for doing something that, even if changing times should make it able to look past some of it, was unforgivable at the time he did it and failed to show any contrition unless it served himself (which doesn’t really qualify as contrition), and his hubris didn’t seem to allow him to understand the weight of that to the point that he did not get to live to see it resolved and had to be litigated again upon his passing.

Feel like that covers the short version.

I’ve been hearing about the story of baseball my entire life. Pete Rose is not not part of it because he’s not in the Hall of Fame. In fact, it’s one of the more significant stories in baseball history, it’s so big that it’s impossible not to. He’s just the only one who isn’t in it despite a playing record that otherwise would. It’s actually a very specific part of the story.
 
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kingsholygrail

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And which cheaters would those be? the majority of the major players from the steroid era have essentially been barred from the hall of fame.

Hard to feel sorry for Rose when he willingly agreed to the HOF ban to save his own ass from further investigation into his gambling.
Hank Aaron admitted to using amphetamines for one.
 
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Had he done a better job admitting he bet on baseball, rather than releasing his biography with the self pitying title My Prison Without Bars during Hall of Fame induction week I think he would have got in.
 
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