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Perceptions? Expectations? Illusions?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ron*
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Ron*

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Disclaimer: I would like to see constructive, thoughtful posts in this thread. Finger-pointing at other posters by name is a sure way to get this thread closed and the discussion stunted. Thanks!

Was reading the highly critical posts in the GDT last night (even more critical than most GDTs, if you can believe that) while watching the NBCSN crew and the intermission crews give their impression of the Kings' players and their play recently.

It was vastly, vastly different.

While the crews praised and exhibited Kopitar's play, some posters were criticizing it. Other posters criticized other players while the NBCSN crew and intermission crew praised and replayed examples of outstanding plays made by the Kings' players.

My question is: Why, as fans, do we tend (easily) to criticize a player and their play? Why don't we look at the POSITIVE plays a player makes, and post the same in the GDT? I do see these from time to time (and try to point them out myself), but the GDTs (this season in particular) seem incredibly highly critical of players and the team's play. (This also includes the PGTs when they have been built.)

Generally, I am more inclined to post something good that a player does during the game than some bonehead thing he does (Muzzin). (Yeah, maybe I am personally too critical of Muzzin, but the whole dumpster fire thing is more of a good-luck charm in the GDTs than anything else. I actually enjoy seeing Muzzin make good plays.)

Which brings up another point. Are posters generally being sarcastic about a player but generally really likes the player? Are some posters here just naturally unhappy that a player is not playing up to expectations? Or are the posters not allowing for a certain degradation of players in their career? (For example, I was pretty unhappy with Williams' play last night but did not exhibit that unhappiness in the GDT...then he makes that nice play to tie the game up.)

Are posters exhibiting their expectations (might be too high) about this team's abilities day-to-day? Perhaps, are they illusions about this team's chances for another Cup this season?

I guess at the end of the day what I am asking is why do the posts in the GDTs this season seem more acrimonious (anyway, to me, "perceptions" there is that word again) than in years' past?
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Most posters tend to exaggerate about a certain player's individual performance, which I have been seeing all season long. I assure you I'm guilty of that myself.
 
Ron said:
Disclaimer: I would like to see constructive, thoughtful posts in this thread. Finger-pointing at other posters by name is a sure way to get this thread closed and the discussion stunted. Thanks!

Was reading the highly critical posts in the GDT last night (even more critical than most GDTs, if you can believe that) while watching the NBCSN crew and the intermission crews give their impression of the Kings' players and their play recently.

It was vastly, vastly different.

While the crews praised and exhibited Kopitar's play, some posters were criticizing it. Other posters criticized other players while the NBCSN crew and intermission crew praised and replayed examples of outstanding plays made by the Kings' players.

My question is: Why, as fans, do we tend (easily) to criticize a player and their play? Why don't we look at the POSITIVE plays a player makes, and post the same in the GDT? I do see these from time to time (and try to point them out myself), but the GDTs (this season in particular) seem incredibly highly critical of players and the team's play. (This also includes the PGTs when they have been built.)

Generally, I am more inclined to post something good that a player does during the game than some bonehead thing he does (Muzzin). (Yeah, maybe I am personally too critical of Muzzin, but the whole dumpster fire thing is more of a good-luck charm in the GDTs than anything else. I actually enjoy seeing Muzzin make good plays.)

Which brings up another point. Are posters generally being sarcastic about a player but generally really likes the player? Are some posters here just naturally unhappy that a player is not playing up to expectations? Or are the posters not allowing for a certain degradation of players in their career? (For example, I was pretty unhappy with Williams' play last night but did not exhibit that unhappiness in the GDT...then he makes that nice play to tie the game up.)

Are posters exhibiting their expectations (might be too high) about this team's abilities day-to-day? Perhaps, are they illusions about this team's chances for another Cup this season?

I guess at the end of the day what I am asking is why do the posts in the GDTs this season seem more acrimonious (anyway, to me, "perceptions" there is that word again) than in years' past?
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Yes, about both team and individual players.

We've seen them at their absolute peaks, and their regular seasons are meh at best in general. I think we're collectively guilty of projecting their peak expectations on their daily games. To be honest, though, this may be the first year we really 'expect' a cup/playoffs the way we do based on history, because we were also miserable down the stretch in 2012 and 2014. This year resembles 2013 more in every way.

I don't think people are truly negative--most posters like just about every player--it's just a combination of expectations clashing with reality and wishing for their success. Just my two cents.
 
I was surprised by the negativity in the game thread yesterday. Declarations that we suck, once down 2-1 the game was over, trashing player A and B.

I hope the fan base isn't turning into a bunch of entitled, whiny Lakers fans.

My guess is that we just had an influx of immature (or drunk) posters.

The Kings did not play poorly last night. They played well on the road against one of the top teams and managed a point.
 
Something to do with human psychology. It's much easier to criticize than to compliment and everyone wants to see a perfect team. If you get a 95% on an exam those two or three questions you get wrong stand out much more than the ones you get right. Even if you get a 2% you're still going to be looking at the answers you get wrong. Pretty sure no one goes through just the correct answers and compliments themselves. Unless we are getting 100s (Stanley Cup) most will always be critical of the team. Of course this a terrible way to discipline people or treat the team, but they don't access this website (at least I think they don't).
 
Muzzin's been a revelation this year (he's easy to pick on but he's really been good!). Kopitar's defensive abilities absolve him of whatever offensive slumps he may go through. Sekera's been a great pick-up. Carter brings it every night. Gaborik as well. Doughty gets too cute sometimes but he's the man, Williams too... and on and on. People forget we're missing Martinez and Pearson, who will be impact players when they return.

It's a great team. The only frustrating/amazing thing is that it seems as though they can dial back their play almost on-demand and then turn it back up when needed.

They're quite content to do barely enough to squeak by in the regular season and then go balls out for the playoffs. I think we're all worried that they may cut it too close one of these years, but so far... no reason to doubt they can't do it again.

So yes, I think when people show frustration in GDT's it's mainly because we've seen all of them play so much better and they are good enough to not have put themselves (and the fans) in such a nail-biting position.

You take the good with the meh.
 
I think Sutter says it best when he says you can't win every game.

The parity in the league is so very close.

I am so grateful for this team. Been a fan since 89 and this team is special for what they have accomplished. I never thought they would win one let alone two Stanleys.

At this point, they either scrape their way into the playoffs or they miss it and have an absurdly small chance at McDavid.

If they make the playoffs all bets are off.

It's been a rough year but they are still in it at this point. I will give them my full support. We are talking about human beings here, not computer animated players on NHL ???. So much goes into professional sports that we the fans never see.
 
Ron said:
My question is: Why, as fans, do we tend (easily) to criticize a player and their play? Why don't we look at the POSITIVE plays a player makes, and post the same in the GDT? I do see these from time to time (and try to point them out myself), but the GDTs (this season in particular) seem incredibly highly critical of players and the team's play. (This also includes the PGTs when they have been built.)
Click to expand...

Fans are emotionally invested and watch every game. We're not parents, and we don't know the players(which makes our emotional investment sort of weird, but that's just how being a fan works), so it's easy to criticize. Mistakes lead to goals. Mistakes get criticized.

We have no control over what happens on the ice or in the room as fans, so I would think it's easier to get frustrated when we're so into something, yet have no agency in the result. Same with people who go after the smallest detail in a movie or tv show, and can forget how much they like the movie or tv show in general.

If it's worse this year, I would have to say that's probably because of what the Kings are trying to accomplish(back to back, 3 in 4). They're living on the edge, so we as fans live on that same edge(again, with no way of doing anything about it). The same way players always say that in the moment, they're not thinking about the bigger picture. When they retire, and get a chance to think about it, then it'll sink in. It's a playoff race, they've given away points all season long, so how great the 2012 run was doesn't matter right now. It's why aren't you scoring/holding onto a lead tonight?

Then we make broad pronouncements that this guy can't play, this or that can't/won't happen, etc. We don't know. You couldn't predict 2012, 2014, or even 2013 for that matter. Stoll in 2012, anyone predicting he was going to score the series winner in OT in Vancouver? Penner that same year? He couldn't buy a goal or an effort for most of that season, and scores the goal that sends the Kings to the Final. That's why we don't stop watching, no matter how much we think they suck in the moment.
 
I have to keep reminding myself that we truly are in the same boat as previous years. I think the main issue is that we see the brilliance of this team offensively and defensively come playoff time and hope for a piece of it to translate to the regular season.

Thinking back to the summer time, we all salivated at the prospect of a full season of Kopitar/Gaborik and That 70's Line. They've had their moments throughout the regular season but aren't of that playoff level, but it's not the playoffs anyways.

This team has plenty of a shot at making the playoffs, and when it comes, we can laugh at how "disappointed" we were with this regular season and enjoy whatever success we watch the Kings achieve.
 
Brad Doty said:
Yes, about both team and individual players.

We've seen them at their absolute peaks, and their regular seasons are meh at best in general. I think we're collectively guilty of projecting their peak expectations on their daily games. To be honest, though, this may be the first year we really 'expect' a cup/playoffs the way we do based on history, because we were also miserable down the stretch in 2012 and 2014. This year resembles 2013 more in every way.

I don't think people are truly negative--most posters like just about every player--it's just a combination of expectations clashing with reality and wishing for their success. Just my two cents.
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Expectations.

Read a GDT from 2010. Yeah, there's always the negative Nancy's, but it wasn't as much about the win as it was about seeing a player develop.

Now we have two cups and everyone seems to think we should blow teams out, or at least win every night. The expectations are through the roof.

The funny thing is A) it doesn't really matter until the playoffs (as long as we get in of course) and B) if you look at the standings, we are 15 points back of Anaheim with two games in hand. That's nine more wins from being the best team in the league. The level of parity is at an all-time high when 15 points separates you from being the top team in the league or possibly not being in the playoffs at all.

Remember the late 80's Ron? The year before we got Gretzky, Calgary was tops in the league with 105 points. LA made the playoffs with 68 points. Toronto made it in with 52 points and they were the second worst team in the league, only one point up on Minnesota.

Yes, different league with only 21 teams and different standards to make the playoffs but the point still stands that parity is far more noticeable now. The volume of one goal games is high, we have points for loser teams now, yet because we won the cup we should be world beaters in people's eyes. Kopitar's having a bad year? Clearly he's nearing the end of his peak status. Quick's struggled the last 15 games? Let's start Jones because clearly the bets clutch goalie in the game has lost it. DL didn't buy out Richards last off-season, he's losing his touch. Sutter's line combos are weird and the team is barely in the playoffs, clearly the team isn't listening to him.

I guess life would be boring without idiots to argue with though, huh Ron?
 
Ron said:
I guess at the end of the day what I am asking is why do the posts in the GDTs this season seem more acrimonious (anyway, to me, "perceptions" there is that word again) than in years' past?
Click to expand...

I think we, as fans, have definitely placed higher expectations on this team given what they've done the last couple seasons. I speak for myself when I say that its growing increasingly hard for me to see this team 'coast' through the regular season and only really play to their potential when they absolutely have to. In a way I think its cathartic for some people to post harsh criticism on here even if it is unwarranted or excessive at times. As a rule I try to keep myself from being negative about the team and try to post constructively (unless is about Stoll). This season I think is an exception because the team does look a little more tired than usual and their play is lackadaisical often. As others have said, the boys are still in the thick of it so no one, especially fans, should count them out just yet, its just bad for all of our nerves and blood pressure to watch them struggle as they have.
 
RoyalVoyager said:
Thinking back to the summer time, we all salivated at the prospect of a full season of Kopitar/Gaborik
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40 goals and 90 points. Instead, maybe 25 goals, and maybe a career low in points. Kopitar and Gaborik didn't come out and say they were hitting those numbers. Lombardi didn't promise those numbers. We make those numbers up ourselves.

Us fans are always in a weird spot. Our brains work against us. It's usually better or worse in our minds than it actually is. Give up a goal, lose a game, go on a losing streak, they're terrible. Score a goal, win a game, go on a winning streak, everything is fine. Every point in the standings counts, but that one game on November 9th, it's not make or break. Yet you can look back on that game and ask what if.

You want to be a fan and just ride the wave. What are we watching for if not that? You also want to look at things more objectively. Not easy to do both.
 
I think a lot of it has to do with how novel blowing a 3rd period lead is for this fanbase. It's a crap feeling no matter who your team is, but for the Kings even before they were all-around elite, they were unbelievably good at locking down games late. Going into the playoffs in 2010, I remember them having some absurd streak of like 100-plus games where they didn't lose in regulation if they had a third period lead. It was over the course of a couple seasons, well before they were Stanley Cup champs. That was our identity, to a large extent. They'd show that stat in every broadcast it seemed like.

Meltdowns, if you can call them that, just bring out the worst in people. If you're flipping between the board and tv, you're going to type out a 6 word post, and then flip back. not a lot of rationality involved, but at the same time, the person who typed it probably doesn't really think we suck.

And more generally, if someone needed to see the Kings playing at the level they do in the playoffs over the last three years to become a fan, they're going to see the dips in the regular season as absolutely unwatchable tedium (1-0 loss to Buffalo?) Not accusing people on the board of that, but more generally in watercooler type discussions.
 
we all love the team and expect them to live up the expectations of TWO TIME Champs!
Although this reg season has been quite a challenge...i don't think anyone would complain (or not as much) if they were 6/8 points in the playoffs.
 
I just can't relate to the negative posts as I've always tried to put myself in the position of those guys out there on the ice. Their actions are the result of split second decisions. No time to stop and think of what they'll do. They've made it to the NHL with their talent and no way am I about to constantly ***** and moan about them. Hockey is a fun sport to watch and why ruin that fun by being mad all the time at certain players.
 
Sutter pours bourbon said:
Meltdowns, if you can call them that, just bring out the worst in people. If you're flipping between the board and tv, you're going to type out a 6 word post, and then flip back. not a lot of rationality involved, but at the same time, the person who typed it probably doesn't really think we suck.
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I generally agree with this. The ones who really annoy me are the ones that post "we suck" and when you and several others point out reasons we don't, they either ignore them and continue posting BS or they argue by making up BS like "we were cup champs, we aren't anymore."

It's like they simply want to be right no matter what, even if no one agrees with them and it's to the detriment of the team they claim to support.

I hope posters support their friends and family much better than they support their team.
 
taz346 said:
I just can't relate to the negative posts as I've always tried to put myself in the position of those guys out there on the ice. Their actions are the result of split second decisions. No time to stop and think of what they'll do. They've made it to the NHL with their talent and no way am I about to constantly ***** and moan about them. Hockey is a fun sport to watch and why ruin that fun by being mad all the time at certain players.
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Sometimes you'd swear we have about 70 Bobby Orr's as posters on this board. They all know what should have happened, played the game and never made a mistake. They give no room for error, and it's a game like you said, fast paced, intense and on a world class stage. Of course mistakes will happen.
 
taz346 said:
I just can't relate to the negative posts as I've always tried to put myself in the position of those guys out there on the ice. Their actions are the result of split second decisions. No time to stop and think of what they'll do. They've made it to the NHL with their talent and no way am I about to constantly ***** and moan about them. Hockey is a fun sport to watch and why ruin that fun by being mad all the time at certain players.
Click to expand...

Especially in last night's game. There are some games I watch and say "yeah, I could have made that decision/pass" (obviously no way I could, just from a bird's eye view), then there are games last night where every little move, passing option, and move out of a check is a marvelous work of art and vision, these guys see plays 5 moves ahead, and they really highlight why they're NHLers and we're on a message board and in beer leagues.

Some of the breakouts by both teams were just like...you were all just blanketed by forecheckers, how the hell are you coming out 3-on-2?

Regardless, as fans, it's tough to relinquish 'control' of expectations when your team has won cup/WCF/cup in successive years and is now in danger of not even having a shot because of plays completely uncharacteristic of them along that run. It's frustrating and people express that in different ways. I always talk about just enjoying the ride but that becomes very very hard to do sometimes!
 
I really think it stems from the fact the base as a whole is now expecting this team to make the playoffs and I think they should. But with the way things are right now there is a real fear that it won't happen. And that is also justified.
I know I don't expect this team to win the presidents trophy, even though I think they are probably capable of doing so. But not sure at what cost. But seeing this team year in year out just making it within the last week of the year into the playoffs is tough. I'd like a bit more room for error. And I think it also doesn't help when the team doesn't play for 2-3 days and when the team gets back into action they could be out of a playoff spot yet again. That creates frustration. They won't lose control of if they can or can't make it but just seeing them on the outside is enough to kind of go over the edge.
 
Ron, I want to say that at least at this site people concentrate of finding fault with players. I left a certain site after being part of it for over 10 years because people there were spending so much time finding fault with other posters because they didn't agree with their opinion. Personal attacks for differing opinions are much worse.
 
These are the best years this franchise has ever seen and we're right in the middle of it. People are scared it will be over soon so they're hypercritical of everything.
 
Something you're not taking into consideration is that NBCSN and the folks that were commenting on the players during intermission are doing national coverage. What that means is that they're not watching the Kings on a consistent basis as fans, Fox Sports, or the radio crew do.

They try their best to remain knowledgeable, but their focus is spread thin so you sometimes get very vanilla opinions that can be formed by looking at popular articles and stat lines that give them some insight. The problem being that it can be a very shallow read and create false impressions.

An example would be if a casual observer were to take a glance at the Power Play Percentage the conclusion could be drawn that with a ranking of 11th overall that the Kings are rocking it. Fans that see it on a game-to-game basis knows that it doesn't always deliver in the clutch and the stats don't paint an accurate picture of the struggles.

Heck, during last year's playoff run NBCSN had the Carolina Hurricanes play-by-play person covering one of the Kings games. After a sequence where Jonathan Quick made a good play to move the puck he commented how he's a very good passer, while Kings fans are well aware that Quick has some... "issues" in that department.

Jim Fox and Bob Miller have both commented in recent games that Kopitar is struggling offensively, but you don't hear about anything like that in non-Kings telecast because they're probably looking at the raw numbers (53 points in 67 games, second on the team in scoring) and move on to emphasizing other points like the Robitaille initiated Selke stuff to focus on his defensive skills instead.

Not that Kopitar doesn't deserve it, but the point I'm making is that people who don't have a vested interest in the Kings are going to gobble up whatever facts they can quickly assimilate and spit it back out to the audience.

Fans of the Kings and local media are specifically rooting for one club and focus their time into looking up information on their team. They essentially have their fingers monitoring the pulse of the team and can tell when something is weird with the club because they're watching every televised game to notice the ups and downs the club might experience over the course of an entire year.

Casual fans, outside observers, and national broadcast folks will only be knowledgeable to a certain extent and after that I take anything that comes out of their mouths with a grain of salt unless they can prove otherwise.
 
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