People who think Nathan Mackinnon is the best player in the world, can we all just be kind of agree that… he’s not?

[Avsfan1921]

For the bold: No one is even doing that. Like two Oiler fans have said that and the others are neutrals. Game threads are cesspool, everyone is heated, of course they are going to be saying stupid shit. It’s an inflated thing that Avs fan use to just label any Oil argument against Nmac as "insecure". Like im not saying HfOil doesnt have homers. They do, but its exaggerated alot

The bolded is exactly why I respond to those who say stupid shit.

I had a conversation with another fan earlier today that spoke in absolutes that the reason MacKinnon doesn’t make poor passing decisions is because he needs to have the puck to be effective and he doesn’t use his line mates much. This view was a direct result of reading the pissed off reply’s in the first gdt when MacKinnon elected to shoot instead of pass.

MacKinnon does indeed make poor passing decisions, and does indeed pass with regularity.

I told them that what they said was very incorrect. MacKinnon passes way more than he should most nights and that a lot of times he is trying to force something that is not there.

The poster then said that they’ll defer to someone who watched him with regularity, and I doubt they will say that MacKinnon can’t use teammates again. That is how the echo chamber that is this site can be curbed imo.

In regards to hfoil and their fans, no most do not engage in these diatribes. But you have to be blind not to see that the majority of negative comments toward MacKinnon are coming from oil fans. Those are two separate distinctions. And those fans that are, are the ones I have a problem with.

 

[authentic]

Avs fan, so take it with what you will, but here's my take:

1. McDavid has the most raw talent in one package, but he's easier to shut down than Mack due to playing style. Connor plays more perimeter hockey and you can neutralize him by taking speed out of the middle. Similar to MacKinnon in some ways but Mack can be a bull in a China shop and will power through you when he wants to.

2. MacKinnon has been the better player for 2 calendar years, and has the most EVP in that time to show for it. Mack is older than McD and in his prime so it makes sense.

3. McDavid is/does have the better career, and his last playoffs proved a lot of doubters wrong,

4. Both have had some shortcomings in important do-or-die games, but in general I'd prefer MacK in a game 7 (coin flip)

5. Makar is a better argument for best player in the world with how much he can dictate the game. When he's on he can shutdown McDavid while outscoring him.


So while I don't think there's any doubt or much debate that Connor is the most talented player in the world, and perhaps best offensively, there's definitely periods of time when he's not the 'best' overall. Best is very subjective but my determination is how much they help you win a game. I'm not saying that trophy belongs to Mack when it's not McDavid either. I'm just a sucker for elite two-way players like Kopitar and Bergeron who do everything at both ends. Hence my Makar mention.

McDavid is definitely not easier to shutdown though. 26 goals and 95 points in his past 53 playoff games.

MacKinnon has 37 goals and 75 points in his past 63 playoff games which include his two peak playoff performances 4 and 5 years ago.

I guess you could say he’s the marginally better goal scorer but beyond that is there any real basis to the idea that MacKinnon doesn’t get shutdown as easily?

 

[PaulD]

Can’t we just be thankful we have both McDavid and MacKinnon? Along with Makar and an aging Sid still able to contribute to Canada’s A team. Why the incessant whining?

These guys have to sink a boat to float their own.
and the school yard
"My dad's stronger than your dad"

I saw both Sid and OV as pretty great
Gretz and Mario
Lafleur and Bossy
Roy and Hasek
Mack and McDavid.
Who was better.......depends what night.

 

[PaulD]

McDavid is definitely not easier to shutdown though. 26 goals and 95 points in his past 53 playoff games.

MacKinnon has 37 goals and 75 points in his past 63 playoff games which include his two peak playoff performances 4 and 5 years ago.

I guess you could say he’s the marginally better goal scorer but beyond that is there any real basis to the idea that MacKinnon doesn’t get shutdown as easily?

As opposed to Matthews who scores like 3rd line checker come play off time.
McDavid has been on a level all his own in some Oiler play off runs. When he is feeling it look out. Mack has had some pretty big play off games too.
On and given night they are the best in the league. As is Kucherov.

 

[Freaky Styley]

McDavid is definitely not easier to shutdown though. 26 goals and 95 points in his past 53 playoff games.

MacKinnon has 37 goals and 75 points in his past 63 playoff games which include his two peak playoff performances 4 and 5 years ago.

I guess you could say he’s the marginally better goal scorer but beyond that is there any real basis to the idea that MacKinnon doesn’t get shutdown as easily?

I guess it's just more from the eye test. When McDavid goes quiet he's almost invisible. I think when Mack is held off the scoresheet he's still very noticeable in other ways like his physicality and creating chances.

McDavid definitely wins the stats battle. I still think in a game 7 though I trust MacKinnon's drive to win more than McDavid, that's all I can really say. It seems it takes an entire team to blanket MacKinnon but McDavid it can be more of a zone/isolation. We will see how both perform this Thursday as well.

Like I said though it's just more personal opinion. I'm sure MacK having a Cup and 2 primary points in game 6 to win it is tilting it for me. Connor was amazing last year but couldn't seal the game 7 victory. Would love to see this playoff rematch. Again, I think Makar outshines both when he's on, and actually Colorado's most important player (hence the Conn Smyhe).

 

[authentic]

As opposed to Matthews who scores like 3rd line checker come play off time.
McDavid has been on a kevel all his own in some Oiler play off runs. When he is feeling look out. Mack has had some pretty big play off games too.
On and given night they are the best in the league. As is Kucherov.

Funny Matthews outscored Kucherov in each series they faced each other, while heavily outperforming any Tampa player defensively as well. He wasn’t even part of the conversation though.

 

[PaulD]

Funny Matthews outscored Kucherov in each series they faced each other, while heavily outperforming any Tampa player defensively as well. He wasn’t even part of the conversation though.

Play offs

Matthews 55g 48 pts

Kucherov 147g 167pts

 

[flyfysher]

All I care about is that Mack is on the Avs. As a result of which he earned a SC championship and he makes his linemates better.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Funny Matthews outscored Kucherov in each series they faced each other, while heavily outperforming any Tampa player defensively as well. He wasn’t even part of the conversation though.

Funny how at the end of the day one is universally acknowledged as a gutless loser and the other is a playoff stud though

 

[Toby91ca]

Even this year with an actual goalie in net, McDavid has the highest PPG of anyone in the league (taking away empty net points). If that's your so-called "down season", that basically just tells the story.

Not that I think it matters at all, but McDavid does not have the highest PPG with goalie in net.

 

[authentic]

Play offs

Matthews 55g 48 pts

Kucherov 147g 167pts

Thanks for the reminder

I was just pointing out the myth in your statement.

Funny how at the end of the day one is universally acknowledged as a gutless loser and the other is a playoff stud though

I suppose. When you haven’t been past the 1st round more than once that’s how it goes. Funny how that poster brought up Matthews though when he wasn’t even part of this thread

 

[PaulD]

Thanks for the reminder

I was just pointing out the myth in your statement.



I suppose. When you haven’t been past the 1st round more than once that’s how it goes. Funny how that poster brought up Matthews though when he wasn’t even part of this thread

examples a fair game when fans try bashing aspects of Mackinnons ( or any other stars game)

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I’m struggling to comprehend the guy who has 9 more assists than the next closest player in the NHL having “tunnel vision.”

Brain rot is real.

 

[Romang67]

I guess it's just more from the eye test. When McDavid goes quiet he's almost invisible. I think when Mack is held off the scoresheet he's still very noticeable in other ways like his physicality and creating chances.

McDavid definitely wins the stats battle. I still think in a game 7 though I trust MacKinnon's drive to win more than McDavid, that's all I can really say. It seems it takes an entire team to blanket MacKinnon but McDavid it can be more of a zone/isolation. We will see how both perform this Thursday as well.

Like I said though it's just more personal opinion. I'm sure MacK having a Cup and 2 primary points in game 6 to win it is tilting it for me. Connor was amazing last year but couldn't seal the game 7 victory. Would love to see this playoff rematch. Again, I think Makar outshines both when he's on, and actually Colorado's most important player (hence the Conn Smyhe).

Because game 7 is such an uncommon event in hockey, I decided to look up how they do in elimination games. MacKinnon has faced elimination 13 times in his career, while McDavid has faced elimination 14 times.

While playing one more game, McDavid has 13 more points in elimination games than does MacKinnon, for a record of 8-6-0 compared to MacKinnon's 6-7-0.

 

[Fatass]

Because game 7 is such an uncommon event in hockey, I decided to look up how they do in elimination games. MacKinnon has faced elimination 13 times in his career, while McDavid has faced elimination 14 times.

While playing one more game, McDavid has 13 more points in elimination games than does MacKinnon, for a record of 8-6-0 compared to MacKinnon's 6-7-0.

McKinnon led his club to the Cup. That’s why I tier him above McDavid. If McDavid leads a club to a Cup then he moves into the higher tier.
These great players are separated by minutiae. But ask them about how they value the Cup. To them that’s the key to their legacy.,

 

[logan5]

No one right now has the impact Quinn Hughes has in all 3 zones. The puck simply does not stay in the defensive zone when he is on the ice. No defenceman gets the puck out of the zone with control better than Hughes, and he is at a 100 point pace. Simply no one tilts the ice as much as Quinn Hughes. Best player on the planet right now. There is a huge bias towards picking a forward because of all the point production, so overall impact gets overlooked from a d man.

 

[hockey20000]

hes been top 3 now for awhile and basically 1b really even if your top player in the world u can still have a bad game lol

 

[VinikToWinIt]

Jesus, MacKinnon and Rant are empty net merchants.

Jesus was actually a full net merchant.

 

[Romang67]

McKinnon led his club to the Cup. That’s why I tier him above McDavid. If McDavid leads a club to a Cup then he moves into the higher tier.
These great players are separated by minutiae. But ask them about how they value the Cup. To them that’s the key to their legacy.,

I mean, I personally think that's dumb nonsense, but it's certainly a take many people have. I'd question any argument that would drop Ray Bourque to somewhere around 15th greatest D-man all time had he not left Boston and chased a cup with the Avs (where he only succeeded in his second season).

 

[authentic]

Because game 7 is such an uncommon event in hockey, I decided to look up how they do in elimination games. MacKinnon has faced elimination 13 times in his career, while McDavid has faced elimination 14 times.

While playing one more game, McDavid has 13 more points in elimination games than does MacKinnon, for a record of 8-6-0 compared to MacKinnon's 6-7-0.

What are their exact stats? Also could you do Kucherov and Matthews?

 

[benfranklin]

Lol this thread was begging for the dawg to come out and dominate after it. Him and Sid have been great.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

Because game 7 is such an uncommon event in hockey, I decided to look up how they do in elimination games. MacKinnon has faced elimination 13 times in his career, while McDavid has faced elimination 14 times.

While playing one more game, McDavid has 13 more points in elimination games than does MacKinnon, for a record of 8-6-0 compared to MacKinnon's 6-7-0.

Maybe my count is off but this is from last year looking at games in MacGinnons prime. Which excludes his rookie year - that may be the missing games since I only have 11.

Dallas game 6:
Dallas game 5: 1g 1a (on the PP)
Seattle game 7: 1a (on the PP)
Seattle game 6:
Vegas game 6: 2a (one on the PP)
Dallas game 7:
Dallas game 6: 1g 1a (Eng)
Dallas game 5: 1g 1a
Sharks game 7:
Sharks game 6:
Nashville game 6: 1a

In 11 games facing elimination he had 10 points. 9 of which he faced a goaler. And 6 of those at 5 on 5.

It's not bad considering that if facing elimination its usually a superior team. But five out of eleven games going scoreless is not good enough.

 

[Fatass]

I mean, I personally think that's dumb nonsense, but it's certainly a take many people have. I'd question any argument that would drop Ray Bourque to somewhere around 15th greatest D-man all time had he not left Boston and chased a cup with the Avs (where he only succeeded in his second season).

like I already pointed out; these greatest players are separated by tiny amounts. If we asked them about their legacies, I think they’d say the Cup is very important. Imo that’s why McDavid had his explosive rant in the dressing room after going down 0-3 to Florida in the Final. There is a pressure on the greatest to win the Cup they feel because they know it’s the Cup that cements their legacy.
McKinnon was a key piece in the Avs Cup. He’s also a great player we can argue about as up there with McDavid as one of the game’s current best. IMO McKinnon gets the edge because of his Cup.

 

[Romang67]

What are their exact stats? Also could you do Kucherov and Matthews?

MacKinnon has 3 goals and 7 assists for 10 points in 13 games, while McDavid has 8 goals and 15 assists for 23 points.

Kucherov has 2 goals and 9 assists for 11 points in 16 games. I know you didn't ask, but Marner has 2 goals and 9 assists for 11 points in 14 games.

Matthews isn't in the top 300 all time, so he's not listed.

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You're gonna have to go find the Matthews one yourself. I'd guess a point or two below Marner in the same number of games.

 

[authentic]

MacKinnon has 3 goals and 7 assists for 10 points in 13 games, while McDavid has 8 goals and 15 assists for 23 points.

Kucherov has 2 goals and 9 assists for 11 points in 16 games. I know you didn't ask, but Marner has 2 goals and 9 assists for 11 points in 14 games.

Matthews isn't in the top 300 all time, so he's not listed.

Skater Records - Playoffs | NHL Records

Explore detailed NHL skater records from the Stanley Cup Playoffs, including achievements by career, year, series, game and period.

records.nhl.com

You're gonna have to go find the Matthews one yourself. I'd guess a point or two below Marner in the same number of games.

Oh, I was wondering about Marner too actually but just as I remembered he has better stats in elimination games than Kucherov! Tells you all you need to know about this stat really. Although it’s not surprising to me McDavid is way ahead of the rest. Patrick Kane like.