People owe Eric Tulsky an apology

[Blueline Bomber]

It was a combined transaction but when looking at the return for Necas and Rantanen from either side, Hall played zero part in it and it's stupid to consider Hall "part of the Necas return." Colorado and Chicago did not exchange any pieces in the trade. The Canes gave a 3rd round pick to Chicago for Hall and ~$4.5M cap hit. This really isn't difficult to comprehend. Canes could've easily just gotten Hall from Chicago completely independent of the Necas/Rantanen trade and probably for less than the 3rd with Chicago also giving us the cap space.

The Canes wanted both Rantanen and Hall, but couldn't reasonably take both at their full price. Chicago retaining 50% of Rantanen allowed the deal to happen. Thus, they (and therefore Hall) are intrinsically involved in that deal. So it's not wrong to include Hall as part of the return for Necas + Drury, as he is one of the players Carolina gained as part of that deal

 

[qcal1427]

Rantanen shooting percentage in Carolina: 5%
Jankowski shooting percentage in Carolina: 75%

Come on man

 

[thebestnic]

Habs fan coming in here like this. Man, the offer sheets really got to you, huh

I hate pretty much every team in the east so don't take it personally

 

[DaveG]

Did you know only 4 make the 3rd? Probably not, because you're a Canes fan.

pretty weak dig considering they made the conference final within the last 2 f***ing seasons.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I don't think Necas, Drury and a 2nd for Stankoven, 2 1sts and 2 3rds is all that great of value for Carolina, especially when they're a win-now team.

Just because Carolina didn't like Necas doesn't really make that value great.

Agreed.

In a vacuum yes they did well.

For a team that could make top 4 easily because the Metro only has the Capitals as a threat?

Id say they did poorly.

 

[Hawkaholic]

pretty weak dig considering they made the conference final within the last 2 f***ing seasons.

Thats true, I forgot they did that, because no one cares who doesn't make the SCF.

 

[Nikishin al Gaib]

Did you know only 4 make the 3rd? Probably not, because you're a Canes fan.

As a Hawks fan, are you sure you want to be going on the attack on other fanbases? I thought you all were used to looking the other way

 

[Hawkaholic]

As a Hawks fan, are you sure you want to be going on the attack on other fanbases? I thought you all were used to looking the other way

How original.

 

[Howie Hodge]

He'll get nothing, and like it!

 

[chaz4hockey]

the picks are nice but arent the team trying to win now? This is their window.

I suppose they can use those picks to trade for someone who actually wants to be in Carolina this summer or next trade deadline

“This is their window.”

Actually, even though they are still one of the NHL’s best, I’d suggest next year is the start of a new very competitive window.

A big part of their roster/future best players are sub-prime aged with Jarvis, Svetch, Blake, Nikishin, Morrow, KK (yes he is still young) with very young guys such as Nadeau and Artamonov projected as solid to very good goal scorers due up during the younger guys hitting their prime years.

I’d add, Aho and Slavin are not old and are in their early primes. Plus, the GM/“the Borg" (that’s what we call the assessment guys) have demonstrated great skill identifying lower cost but producing guys like Noesen, Robinson, Hall, Roslovic, Jankowski to fill the roster. I don’t doubt they will continue to be adept at finding the right guys to fill out the roster.

Open item is goaltending. They need to find a goaltending tandem that works going forward. Even with a solid core, please note that they have almost $40M in projected cap space next year. That’s significant for asset acquisition/leveraging their cap space (ie the Toronto deal to get Jarvis).

 

[NVious]

This is me rn

HOPE YOU SEE THIS JIRI

 

[PAZ]

Agreed.

In a vacuum yes they did well.

For a team that could make top 4 easily because the Metro only has the Capitals as a threat?

Id say they did poorly.

That was my initial reaction as well, but Rants has 10 pts/20 games since being traded from Colorado. Rants needs to step it up for me to consider they did poorly, because the longer he plays like crap the better it looks for Carolina.

They’re arguably a better team now than when Rants was on the team, although a worse team than keeping Drury and Necas.

 

[qcal1427]

The organizational philosophy is to continually compile assets in order to stay in the playoff race year over year, rather than go all-in for a window. The rationale being that the odds of winning a Cup during a specific season are very low, so it’s better to buy as many tickets as possible, and also avoid the poisonous effects of bad seasons.

They’ve only been at it for 5 years coming out of a rebuild, so time will tell whether that approach pays off.

Moneyball-brain at its peak and a loser philosophy. Since the 05 lockout how many cups were won by "stay in the race" teams? St. Louis in 2018?

Canes have the players and assets to really push for a deep run and I feel bad for their fans that ownership seems content with just being the 8th best team in the league in perpetuity

 

[Derailed75]

I don't think Necas, Drury and a 2nd for Stankoven, 2 1sts and 2 3rds is all that great of value for Carolina, especially when they're a win-now team.

Just because Carolina didn't like Necas doesn't really make that value great.

Rumor was they tried trading him in the offseason and the return wasn't all that great.

 

[Ignatius]

Not really. Colorado clearly lost. They traded a player who wanted to sign, and for a reasonable price, for a worse player. Dallas remains to be seen as Rantanen hasn’t exactly hit the ground running. Carolina definitely won as they essentially got a massive haul for Necas

It is incredibly easy to make such a statement outside of the context of what every team was seeking to accomplish in every step along the way. I can say with some certainty that Colorado and Carolina would have done their absolute best to maximize value from dealing Rantanen and both franchises likely fielded from countless offers from other franchises, both deciding what would work best at the time all things considered.

If you want to make a case that Carolina somehow magically traded Necas alone and ended up getting everything that they got from both Colorado and Dallas, be my guest and make your case. It's as if you read the first chapter and the last chapter in a book and think you know the whole story.

 

[CanesUltimate11]

Moneyball-brain at its peak and a loser philosophy. Since the 05 lockout how many cups were won by "stay in the race" teams? St. Louis in 2018?

Canes have the players and assets to really push for a deep run and I feel bad for their fans that ownership seems content with just being the 8th best team in the league in perpetuity

They grabbed the best rental forward on the market last year and did worse then the year before where they didn't swing for the fences in trades. You tell me which solution was better.

 

[ijuka]

I mean, Jankowski has 75% shooting% and ixG of 1.34 while having 6 goals.

Cool I guess, but is this sustainable?

 

[qcal1427]

They grabbed the best rental forward on the market last year and did worse then the year before where they didn't swing for the fences in trades. You tell me which solution was better.

Process > results. Guentzel was incredible for them and a much better solution than not having Guentzel.

 

[bleedgreen]

I don't think Necas, Drury and a 2nd for Stankoven, 2 1sts and 2 3rds is all that great of value for Carolina, especially when they're a win-now team.

Just because Carolina didn't like Necas doesn't really make that value great.

And Hall.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Moneyball-brain at its peak and a loser philosophy. Since the 05 lockout how many cups were won by "stay in the race" teams? St. Louis in 2018?

Canes have the players and assets to really push for a deep run and I feel bad for their fans that ownership seems content with just being the 8th best team in the league in perpetuity

I mean, they’re 5th in the league right now as you’re ripping them for not competing hard enough.

In regards to having the players and assets, I think we’re maybe a bit spoiled with seeing the level of success this group has achieved without the typical assets of a contender.

Jarvis - Aho - Blake
Svechnikov - Kotkaniemi - Roslovic
Martinook - Staal - Stankoven
Hall - Jankowski - Robinson

Slavin - Burns
Walker - Gostisbehere
Orlov - Chatfield

Andersen
Kochetkov

Does that actually look like a Cup contending roster? I don’t think so and neither did many people coming into this season. I still have strong misgivings about that group heading into the playoffs, because it’s so obviously an unconventional team build with no top-20 player on the roster severely limited depth down the middle.

This is a team that in the past 2 years has lost Guentzel, Necas, Skjei, Pesce, Teravainen, Noesen, Kuznetsov, Fast, Bunting, DeAngelo, Drury, Raanta, Stepan, Stastny, and de Haan. That group alone could probably beat the Sharks, and that’s just the guys the Canes lost. But they just keep winning, and they’re in a position to add a lot going forward, and draft their way to the next core rather than having to strip down for a rebuild.

Again, time will tell if it results in a dream run for a Cup. But it’s really hard to criticize the management group when they are getting results FAR beyond expectations.

 

[theVladiator]

Can't wait to see them lose in the 2nd round again.

Solid chirp.

Also, a Hawks fan chirping anybody is a comedy bonus.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

The Canes wanted both Rantanen and Hall, but couldn't reasonably take both at their full price. Chicago retaining 50% of Rantanen allowed the deal to happen. Thus, they (and therefore Hall) are intrinsically involved in that deal. So it's not wrong to include Hall as part of the return for Necas + Drury, as he is one of the players Carolina gained as part of that deal

hopeless

 

[Empoleon8771]

And Hall.

They traded that extra 4th for Hall in the deal.

 

[qcal1427]

This is a team that in the past 2 years has lost Guentzel, Necas, Skjei, Pesce, Teravainen, Noesen, Kuznetsov, Fast, Bunting, DeAngelo, Drury, Raanta, Stepan, Stastny, and de Haan. That group alone could probably beat the Sharks, and that’s just the guys the Canes lost. But they just keep winning, and they’re in a position to add a lot going forward, and draft their way to the next core rather than having to strip down for a rebuild.

That's the problem with the "sustainable contender" BS, it's always looking forward and never now. They were in a position to add a lot this year and they didn't.

Again, time will tell if it results in a dream run for a Cup. But it’s really hard to criticize the management group when they are getting results FAR beyond expectations.

Their expectations should be to win a cup. They have not even won a conference finals game.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I mean, they’re 5th in the league right now as you’re ripping them for not competing hard enough.

In regards to having the players and assets, I think we’re maybe a bit spoiled with seeing the level of success this group has achieved without the typical assets of a contender.

Jarvis - Aho - Blake
Svechnikov - Kotkaniemi - Roslovic
Martinook - Staal - Stankoven
Hall - Jankowski - Robinson

Slavin - Burns
Walker - Gostisbehere
Orlov - Chatfield

Andersen
Kochetkov

Does that actually look like a Cup contending roster? I don’t think so and neither did many people coming into this season. I still have strong misgivings about that group heading into the playoffs, because it’s so obviously an unconventional team build with no top-20 player on the roster severely limited depth down the middle.

This is a team that in the past 2 years has lost Guentzel, Necas, Skjei, Pesce, Teravainen, Noesen, Kuznetsov, Fast, Bunting, DeAngelo, Drury, Raanta, Stepan, Stastny, and de Haan. That group alone could probably beat the Sharks, and that’s just the guys the Canes lost. But they just keep winning, and they’re in a position to add a lot going forward, and draft their way to the next core rather than having to strip down for a rebuild.

Again, time will tell if it results in a dream run for a Cup. But it’s really hard to criticize the management group when they are getting results FAR beyond expectations.

Their center depth is more unconventional than it is shallow. Both Kotkaniemi and Staal are basically elite 3rd line centers and Jankowski, even when you discount the wild shooting streak he is on, is producing analytical metrics comparable to some of the best 4th liners in the game.