People are not Ready for the Massive Cap Increases

[SirSamofHouseBennett]

It's nice to see the new PA boss actually being proactive and not like Fehr who was just looking for a reason to strike.

When was the last time the players were on strike? All the recent labour disruptions were owner lockouts.

Facts matter.

 

[SirSamofHouseBennett]

Fair enough. I would just like to see more flexibility for teams when players are no longer meeting the performance the team initially paid for (sans injury). I mean, I get the PA would start a riot over such a statement but I lean toward equality and fairness when it comes to contracts. If I don't meet the requirements of my clients' contracts, I would be in breach and could lose the contract or get sued. An athlete does well for a year, gets the big deal, and pulls the rug out from the team making roster moves difficult? Nah, that bothers me. Campbell, Jarry, Marleau, Murray, Clarkson, etc are all situations I wish the teams had more flexibility.

So what about fairness when a player is significantly underpaid or is your fairness only a 1 way street?

Guaranteed contracts cut both ways but some fans only want the upside guaranteed for owners.

 

[SEALBound]

So what about fairness when a player is significantly underpaid or is your fairness only a 1 way street?

Guaranteed contracts cut both ways but some fans only want the upside guaranteed for owners.

Totally agree, which is why I supported the owners position in 2013 of 5 year max lengths. I would also implement an "option" year at the end where an player can opt out a year early or the team can terminate a year early.

You're right though, it does cut both ways. Some players opt for the security though and that's their decision. But shortening max lengths and adding the option year would work towards balancing "fairness" if there are major discrepancies in pay vs performance. I would tend to believe that there are more circumstances of bad value contracts vs woefully undervalued contracts though.

Some examples: I bet the Penguins would opt out of the final year on Kevin Hayes and I bet Sam Bennett would have opted out of the last year of his undervalued contract.

There are about to be a ton of "value" contracts though, especially in three years. I feel bad for the players that opted for team friendly, long-term deals.

 

[Crazy Cizikas]

No the poster strictly relies on numbers and nothing else, which is obviously wrong. Doesn’t use a combo of eye test and numbers.
Also if using eye test, live viewing is by far the preferred method.

I lost my patience for stat watchers when my brother, who is a stat watcher, complained about a slump of Jordan Herbal. He complained about Eberle without even bothering to watch him or learning his name. He just went by what he read on paper (or screen, I guess).

 

[eojsmada]

When was the last time the players were on strike? All the recent labour disruptions were owner lockouts.

Facts matter.

Takes two to tango in any negotiation and when a labor dispute forces one into ceasing operations for any period of time, both sides are at fault. Fehr was never one to really start sitting down with the owners until the year that the CBA was ending. Fehr was fairly animus towards the owners and yes that was his style. So even if he didn't strike, he most certainly pushed the owners into a work stoppage.

As is evidenced under Marty Walsh, you can actually have discussions at any time and resolve disputes. And this era of "peace" was certainly not because of anything that Fehr did. It's because Fehr isn't there.

It's a de fide strike when Fehr is involved. Because he loves to antagonize owners to the point that the shutter doors and say, "See!! They're locking us out!", when in fact he exacerbated the issue to force that situation. He did it in baseball and they still haven't fully recovered from his past shenanigans.

 

[holy]

It will just take a few years as active deals expire but then all the cap space will be used up (less teams that don’t/can’t spend to the cap). In five years everything will be the same, players will just have bigger numbers attached to them.

Hell is the comfortable spot for everyone to be in.

 

[TheFinalWord]

I didn’t say that they will be forced to go watch and pay more. I said that they WILL pay more.

To be fair, the cap has gone up because fans HAVE paid more. Us good fans have paid it forward so the NHL players wouldn't have to live on subsistence level.

 

[coolboarder]

This will allow for RFA to be weaponized and teams will not be using first rounder in a trade anymore in the near future and see RFA being a weaponize to grab a good young players to speed up their rebuilding. 1st rounder will only help teams years down the road while RFA will help the team immediately so giving up their first will be worth it now with increased cap.

 

[3074326]

I don’t have the time or crayons to reply to everything you said that was wrong and not cited. But you just stay here all day talking from ignorance.

I don’t know enough about the situation to determine right and wrong, but you’re definitely acting like a loser

I’m giving Seal the W

(I actually like reading these discussions because it helps me understand more, disappointed to see this end like an argument in elementary school)

 

[Jared Dunn]

I think you're right for the most part but that the big counteracting force is that surprisingly few teams will have owners willing to spend the full $113.5M.

On paper it's an extra $816M into the system. My guess is that after internal budgets though you're only looking at around half of that, with probably only 10 or so teams willing to spend all the way to the max.

I'd be more optimistic and say at least half the league will be cap teams but we're almost definitely gonna see more budget teams than ever

 

[Cancuks]

The NHL is already watered down. Look at some of the rosters in the lines thread. Most teams have 3rd liners on their first line, AHL scrubs in their lineup, guys with 1 or 2 goals in 30 or 40 games, 7th defensemen playing forward. Long term injuries seem to be more and more common. Not sure if players are milking it or no one has a pain threshold anymore. What's going to happen is the top players are going to get paid as are the middle guys just like now and the 3rd and 4th liners will be squeezed out because they want $3-$5 million each now and teams will refuse to pay it. So the league will end up like the NBA.

 

[qc14]

I'd be more optimistic and say at least half the league will be cap teams but we're almost definitely gonna see more budget teams than ever

Yea I'm fascinated to see what happens. I think the good thing is that there are no more Melnyks and Meruelos in the league that will barely be above the floor. On the other hand though, my guess is that we'll see some surprising internal caps -- my money's on Colorado, Nashville, and Carolina.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

I don't think people are really understanding what will likely happen with the massive cap jumps in the oncoming years. It's not as simple as saying it's going up 10%, so new signings will just be a 10% increase on previous comparables.

In any given year, there are 2-4 prize free agents that are difference makers. Then there are usually 8-10 depth players that are solid, followed by all the rest which are replacement level or slightly above.

Every single team will have a huge amount of cap space. Take a look at the thread asking which teams are positioned to exploit the new jumping cap. Every single team could be named.

There are not enough quality players to meet the demand. What's going to happen is that teams will enter the season with a great deal of cap space, because they won't be able to find players that are measurably better than their prospects that will be graduating.

Extra cap space that isn't used is wasted. If you end the year with 15 million and never spend it, you don't get a benefit. This is going to sound ridiculous, but a team would be better off paying Rantanen 18 million than letting that cap space sit by with no options. Of course term and future contracts need to be a factor, but this will be less of a worry than in previous years due to the cap jumping every single year for the foreseeable future. Deals will only get worse each year as cap inflation continues to build.

I imagine a big effect of all this will be that contracts with perceived negative value today will actually have positive value tomorrow. Jones, Nurse, Huberdeau, Stephenson, and others. Teams would be better off paying Huberdeau for 60 points and hoping he can find a spark and reclaim some of his former glory, than letting that money rot or spending 9 million on a player with a 60 points ceiling that is more likely to produce 40-50.

Maybe I'm out to lunch, but the supply of quality players available to sign is incredibly small, and the demand is about to explode.

The biggest problem, in my humble opinion, is teams giving bjg (or even huge) contracts to ordinary players in order to meet the cap floor.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Yea I'm fascinated to see what happens. I think the good thing is that there are no more Melnyks and Meruelos in the league that will barely be above the floor. On the other hand though, my guess is that we'll see some surprising internal caps -- my money's on Colorado, Nashville, and Carolina.

Colorado has the richest owner in the league


They might have an internal cap when they're rebuilding, but they certainly won't while they're contenders.

 

[qc14]

Colorado has the richest owner in the league


They might have an internal cap when they're rebuilding, but they certainly won't while they're contenders.

He's also one that is notoriously pretty stingy and already has three other bigger and more expensive toys to fund as well. I know I'm leaning pretty heavily into the way that they and some of the insiders have talked about the Rantanen deal, and that it would be surprising. All just conjecture!

 

[VaporTrail]

It seems to me that fans are ready for massive cap increases

 

[TS Quint]

I don’t know enough about the situation to determine right and wrong, but you’re definitely acting like a loser

I’m giving Seal the W

(I actually like reading these discussions because it helps me understand more, disappointed to see this end like an argument in elementary school)

So you have no idea what is going on but I’m the loser? You don’t sound like you are trying to learn anything with this troll post. If you have a question about what I have said I will answer you if you ask politely instead of talking down from a position of ignorance like Seal did.

Colorado has the richest owner in the league


They might have an internal cap when they're rebuilding, but they certainly won't while they're contenders.

Not from what I see and from what I can find, he’s not particularly close either.

 

[mouser]

Colorado has the richest owner in the league


They might have an internal cap when they're rebuilding, but they certainly won't while they're contenders.

Not from what I see and from what I can find, he’s not particularly close either.

Most recent Forbes list has Kroenke, Anschutz, and Samueli all tied for the lead.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Most recent Forbes list has Kroenke, Anschutz, and Samueli all tied for the lead.

Feel like it’s really hard to calculate wealth of billionaires/UNW except for their shares of public companies.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I'd look to Forbes Franchise Values more so than the personal wealth of the owners. Teams pay expenses out of their revenue, they will only dip into Owner's pocket on rare occasions.

 

[TS Quint]

Most recent Forbes list has Kroenke, Anschutz, and Samueli all tied for the lead.

Can you show me the link. My crappy Google searches aren’t showing any of those guys approaching $74B

 

[cbcwpg]

The biggest problem, in my humble opinion, is teams giving bjg (or even huge) contracts to ordinary players in order to meet the cap floor.

This.

The problem isn't having a cap, it's having a floor. Having to pay 4th liners large 7 figure salaries or having to overpay your teams best players to meet the floor, is the issue.