Post-Game Talk: | Pens vs Sens | Loss | Pens 4 Refs 5

Who was worst?

  • Rust

    Votes: 6 16.7%
  • Ruh

    Votes: 4 11.1%
  • Refs

    Votes: 10 27.8%
  • Rully

    Votes: 16 44.4%

  • Total voters
    36
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orby

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Jun 16, 2013
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Line1 is super frustrating but line 2 has been really good lately and I'm sure that's in part due to Rakell. I bet if he ever makes the swap again line 2 starts struggling a bit because Rust has sucked this year.

What he *should* try (but won't) is Zucker-Sid-Rakell and Guentzel-Malkin-Rust. God forbid we try something new though. Gotta stick with the same stale combos.

I have thought (and said) Zucker with Sid was a good idea ever since we traded for him. I will admit that Zucker and Geno have developed good chemistry, but I liked what I saw of Zucker on L1 a few seasons ago and I've always been stumped as to why Sullivan was so reluctant to try it again when we know Guentzel plays well on both L1 and L2.
 

Pancakes

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I have thought (and said) Zucker with Sid was a good idea ever since we traded for him. I will admit that Zucker and Geno have developed good chemistry, but I liked what I saw of Zucker on L1 a few seasons ago and I've always been stumped as to why Sullivan was so reluctant to try it again when we know Guentzel plays well on both L1 and L2.
It's the same shit that Bylsma used to do. Remember when Kunitz-Malkin-Neal was insanely dominant and then Sid came back and Kunitz was immediately taken from Malkin?

We're really lucky that our recent run of shit play hasn't put us in a bad spot yet. Luckily the Isles/Buffalo/Florida are all struggling too. We continue to have games in hand and continue to maintain a better point percentage than those teams.

It feels like we probably will make it still despite every attempt not to.
 

Gurglesons

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Dec 18, 2009
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It's the same shit that Bylsma used to do. Remember when Kunitz-Malkin-Neal was insanely dominant and then Sid came back and Kunitz was immediately taken from Malkin?

We're really lucky that our recent run of shit play hasn't put us in a bad spot yet. Luckily the Isles/Buffalo/Florida are all struggling too. We continue to have games in hand and continue to maintain a better point percentage than those teams.

It feels like we probably will make it still despite every attempt not to.

That didn’t happen.

In 2012 when Sid was out and came back he played with Cooke and Kennedy.
 

LOGiK

Registered User
Nov 14, 2007
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Question for the Penguins players:
Malkin draws two penalties in a row, then scores after a very long shift. The opposition goalie looks extremely shaky: Do you:
a) Show some pride and desire to win and start fighting for pucks, hitting people, etc.?
b) Tighten up defensively and stop taking stupid penalties?
c) Try to test Talbot as much as possible?
d) None of the above, keep coasting like it's a pre-season game

Seriously, a 36 year old, injury-prone Malkin shouldn't be one of the few players going to the dirty areas and fighting for pucks along the boards. Line 1 is as a physical as figure skating nowadays. Sure, this is mostly on Sully for persisting with GCRust but all three players can play a lot more physically than that. They (and many of their colleagues) play like it's game 82, the playoff berth is secure and avoiding injuries is number one priority. The two most injury prone guys, Malkin and Zucker, are hustling the most. The way things are going one of them is going to get injured and the Pens will be even less physical.

Yes, we are a team built for speed and skill (in theory at least) and I would keep it that way but that doesn't mean being allergic to contact no matter what.
I watch a senator standing still (around his blue line on a breakout) waiting for the defender to get him the puck on the boards, and a penguin was pressing on the check and he gave it right to the guy standing still and the penguin (dont remember name) skated right up to him and turned away instead of finishing his hit. Doesn't matter his name because this is common practice.
The puck went to the other side of the boards and I think it was zucker, but he followed through with the body. So it was either zuckers line or a line change... don't care to look.

Yeah their lack of physicality is ... I don't know... it's not concerning... it's just bleh. They don't hit. Pittsburgh Peggy's.
 
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Darren McCord

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Dec 15, 2015
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That didn’t happen.

In 2012 when Sid was out and came back he played with Cooke and Kennedy.

That didnt last long. Bylsma also mixed his lines up wayyyyy more during the game.

For better or worse Bylsma had all kinds of lines throughout the game.

Bylsma never hit this level of line stubborness.
 

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Missed it due to The SHOT. Doesn't sound like I missed much.

I'll just copy my statement from the Ducks game:

Although we got the 2 1 point, this was another absolutely unacceptable outcome.

Honestly, when is enough is enough?
 

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Briefly. The very next season KCD was a thing again
He only spent a couple games with Cooke and Kennedy. And even the plural may be generous.

Kunitz stayed with Malkin and Neal. Crosby got Sullivan and Dupuis. Then it was back to CSK.
 
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BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
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Complaining about goaltending and the refs is honestly pretty lame when the team gets outshot 2:1 and there was a like 20+ minute stretch where they managed one shot on goal. It would be like if you were playing a video game with your buddy and whipping the shit out of him but he hung in there due to button mashing and luck then once you finally beat him he starts grousing about his controller being shitty and having glare just on his side of the TV. I feel like some of you are going some distance to not see what's in front of you.

These guys can barely or flat out cannot hang with the dregs. At least right now. Pretending that subbing in a new backup goaltender will right the ship is pretty hilarious. Frankly this whole GDT should be devoted to how miraculous it is that they potted 4 on like 18 shots and even managed a point. Lower that bar, people.
 

Gurglesons

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He only spent a couple games with Cooke and Kennedy. And even the plural may be generous.

Kunitz stayed with Malkin and Neal. Crosby got Sullivan and Dupuis. Then it was back to CSK.

My point was more than Bylsma was more willing to break up Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis than Sullivan is GCR.

In reality we actually only saw KCD as the regular line in one playoff run. We've seen it win 3 straight failed playoff runs with Sully.
 

Pancakes

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He at least ran it in the playoffs in 2012 unlike the new moron.
Regardless, my original point was that it's crazy that Guentzel is never tried with Malkin and Zucker never with Crosby. What's the worst that could happen? We lose a game? That's already happening. We didn't even deserve a point last night.

And if Sullivan is doing it for some other reason like oh I know Sid wants to play with Jake well then my answer to that is...tough shit. Sid is sucking ass on the ice anyways so if Sullivan is worried he'll pout if he takes Guentzel away then it's like oh well, he pouts. That line is already losing us games so it's not like Sid playing worse is a big threat for me.
 
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Gurglesons

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Regardless, my original point was that it's crazy that Guentzel is never tried with Malkin and Zucker never with Crosby. What's the worst that could happen? We lose a game? That's already happening. We didn't even deserve a point last night.

And if Sullivan is doing it for some other reason like oh I know Sid wants to play with Jake well then my answer to that is...tough shit. Sid is sucking ass on the ice anyways so if Sullivan is worried he'll pout if he takes Guentzel away then it's like oh well, he pouts. That line is already losing us games so it's not like Sid playing worse is a big threat for me.

Well, that's also my point. Even an idiot as big as Bylsma split up Kunitz and Sid.

Complaining about goaltending and the refs is honestly pretty lame when the team gets outshot 2:1 and there was a like 20+ minute stretch where they managed one shot on goal. It would be like if you were playing a video game with your buddy and whipping the shit out of him but he hung in there due to button mashing and luck then once you finally beat him he starts grousing about his controller being shitty and having glare just on his side of the TV. I feel like some of you are going some distance to not see what's in front of you.

These guys can barely or flat out cannot hang with the dregs. At least right now. Pretending that subbing in a new backup goaltender will right the ship is pretty hilarious. Frankly this whole GDT should be devoted to how miraculous it is that they potted 4 on like 18 shots and even managed a point. Lower that bar, people.

Thank god for the Zucker - Malkin combination.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
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Crosby most have a hell of a bratty, shitty, uncoachable. egotistical side that he has kept closely guarded for nearly 20 years if he is basically running the lines due to his inflexible demands.

Or maybe it could just be the coach is brainlocked and won't coach.

Thank god for the Zucker - Malkin combination.

For now. They are both at near max effort in order to try to pull these guys out of their dive but it can't keep up.
 

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My point was more than Bylsma was more willing to break up Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis than Sullivan is GCR.

In reality we actually only saw KCD as the regular line in one playoff run. We've seen it win 3 straight failed playoff runs with Sully.
He was, due to extenuating circumstances and the complete and utter league-wide dominance of a line. That had much more to do with not breaking up Kunitz-Malkin-Neal than a willingness to break up Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis. Bad example.

We didn't see KCD a couple times in the playoffs because Dupuis got hurt a few times. The one time everyone was healthy and there was a decision to make, Bylsma elected to keep Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis together and put HOF RIGHT wing Jerome "Iggy" Iginla on the left wing with Malkin and Neal.

2008 - Duper and Hossa
2009 - Guerin and Kunitz
2010 - Guerin and Kunitz
2011 - Sid was hurt
2012 - Sullivan and Dupuis
2013 - Kunitz and Dupuis
2014 - Kunitz and Gibbons (Duper was hurt)
2015 - Kunitz and Hornqvist (Johnston, Bylsma was gone then)

Now, if you're bitching about Sullivan not switching it up, that's fine. I agree. But using Bylsma and Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis as any sort of evidence hardly supports the argument.
 
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Pancakes

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Crosby most have a hell of a bratty, shitty, uncoachable. egotistical side that he has kept closely guarded for nearly 20 years if he is basically running the lines due to his inflexible demands.

Or maybe it could just be the coach is brainlocked and won't coach.
It could just be that he makes his line preferences known when the coaches talk to him and that's why they stubbornly stick to these combos against all sense.

Like I doubt Sid is saying give me xyz wingers or else. But probably Sullivan asks him for input his linemates and Sid says oh I think Rusty and Jake would go well with my game and there you have it.

I think that's all it is. It's not Sid demanding anything, it's coaches giving his opinions too much weight.

Or the alternative is that the coaching staff genuinely thinks these line combos are the best for the team and they aren't relying on Sid's opinion to inform those decisions.

But I don't particularly care why they're doing it. I just want them to stop and do something - anything - else :laugh:
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
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It could just be that he makes his line preferences known when the coaches talk to him and that's why they stubbornly stick to these combos against all sense.

Like I doubt Sid is saying give me xyz wingers or else. But probably Sullivan asks him for input his linemates and Sid says oh I think Rusty and Jake would go well with my game and there you have it.

I think that's all it is. It's not Sid demanding anything, it's coaches giving his opinions too much weight.

Or the alternative is that the coaching staff genuinely thinks these line combos are the best for the team and they aren't relying on Sid's opinion to inform those decisions.

But I don't particularly care why they're doing it. I just want them to stop and do something - anything - else :laugh:

Oh I agree. I think of course Sid makes his preferences known. But something tells me he's not gonna start throwing chairs and kicking trashcans across the room if Mike "Supercoach" Sullivan could see a way to have a quick sit down chat and explain to him that by his estimation the team needs a spark and some adjustments need at least TRIED. This guy has a near Cowher-like reputation for his hard-nosed, take-no-guff approach but won't have a discussion with his captain? lol... OK.
 

Gurglesons

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He was, due to extenuating circumstances and the complete and utter league-wide dominance of a line. That had much more to do with not breaking up Kunitz-Malkin-Neal than a willingness to break up Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis. Bad example.

We didn't see KCD a couple times in the playoffs because Dupuis got hurt a few times. The one time everyone was healthy and there was a decision to make, Bylsma elected to keep Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis together and put HOF RIGHT wing Jerome "Iggy" Iginla on the left wing with Malkin and Neal.

2008 - Duper and Hossa
2009 - Guerin and Kunitz
2010 - Guerin and Kunitz
2011 - Sid was hurt
2012 - Sullivan and Dupuis
2013 - Kunitz and Dupuis
2014 - Kunitz and Gibbons (Duper was hurt)
2015 - Kunitz and Dupuis (Johnston, Bylsma was gone then)

Now, if you're bitching about Sullivan not switching it up, that's fine. I agree. But using Bylsma and Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis as any sort of evidence hardly supports the argument.

2014 was Kunitz and Stempniak. 2015 was Kunitz and Hornqvist.

But Bylsma was willing to split up Kunitz and Sid. Sullivan has refused to split up Jake and Sid outside of 2018 when Jake was young and Sullysma wanted to punish him.
 

Honour Over Glory

#firesully
Jan 30, 2012
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No, because there are obviously teams with two bad goalies.

He currently has the worst save percentage, worst GAA, worst adjusted GAA, and worst GSAA of his career. His quality start percentage is 48th out of goalies with at least 10 appearances.

Jarry is 9th in GSAA. DeSmith is 36th in 18 games. Goalies who have played 10-18 games who rank ahead of DeSmith:

Filip Gustavsson, MIN
Kevin Lankinen, NSH
Craig Anderson, BUF
Alex Stalock, CHI
Ilya Samsanov, TOR
Pavel Francouz, COL
Sam Montembault, MON
Thomas Greiss, STL
Semyon Varlamov, NYI
Akira Schmid, NJ
Jeremy Swayman, BOS
Joonas Korpisalo, CBJ
Adin Hill, VGK
David Rittich, WPG
Daniel Vladar, CGY
I still wish we had Filip.

2014 was Kunitz and Stempniak. 2015 was Kunitz and Hornqvist.

But Bylsma was willing to split up Kunitz and Sid. Sullivan has refused to split up Jake and Sid outside of 2018 when Jake was young and Sullysma wanted to punish him.
Yeah he had him with Cullen on the 4th line and inadvertently allowed Cullen to mentor him a little and made him feel comfortable, then Jake started producing again and has been attached to Crosby's hip ever since.

I do recall there was some joke by Sid about how they'd have to fight him to take Guentzel off of his line or something? Sullivan has catered to that line despite everything telling him that it needs to be changed up.
 

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2014 was Kunitz and Stempniak. 2015 was Kunitz and Hornqvist.

But Bylsma was willing to split up Kunitz and Sid. Sullivan has refused to split up Jake and Sid outside of 2018 when Jake was young and Sullysma wanted to punish him.
I fixed 2015. It was indeed Horny.

2014 was a split between Gibbons and Stempniak but in the 2nd round, Gibbons started the wing with Sid.

Bylsma was willing to split Kunitz up ONCE. Again, due to not wanting to split up Kuntiz-Malkin-Neal.

Bylsma had just as much lineup stubbornness and Sullivan has now. We can agree to that but to suggest that Bylsma was better about splitting guys up? Lol, no. There's zero foundation or evidence for that. The argument I will MAYBE accept is that Bylsma get a smidge more leeway because he actually had less to work with. Sullivan has Rust, Rakell, Kapanen, and even McGinn. Byslma actually has fairly little.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
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Like I completely get that you let your players work through things. Especially your best players.

But what team keeps a mixed-results line together for YEARS?
 
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Honour Over Glory

#firesully
Jan 30, 2012
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I fixed 2015. It was indeed Horny.

2014 was a split between Gibbons and Stempniak but in the 2nd round, Gibbons started the wing with Sid.

Bylsma was willing to split Kunitz up ONCE. Again, due to not wanting to split up Kuntiz-Malkin-Neal.

Bylsma had just as much lineup stubbornness and Sullivan has now. We can agree to that but to suggest that Bylsma was better about splitting guys up? Lol, no. There's zero foundation or evidence for that.
Bylsma's ace was the three headed monster with Kunitz, Crosby, Malkin, that was the ace he had. If anything Bylsma would juggle stuff far too much when things didn't work, but then would go back to status quo after a few games. Sullivan will almost exclusively do the same swaps only and then would only do changes based on injuries but would plug in new guys with the same usage as the previous player.

Bylsma also didn't destroy the bottom 6 with the kind of usage Sullivan utilizes, but both were stubborn assholes.
 
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BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
36,103
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Bylsma is laughable but at least he did things like double shift Crosby/Malkin on other lines and/or play them together when they needed offense. These days you get Big Jeff for nearly 17 minutes when they need offense.

One was decidedly more effective than the other.

EDIT: Canceling practices now huh? Pretty soon they will be vet optional like the Edzo days!
 
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