Post-Game Talk: Pens vs Preds: Secondary Sid Leads the way

[eXile3]

I'm thoroughly unconvinced this is even close to being a playoff caliber team - the defense and goaltending need a total revamp, at minimum - but I am happy to see Sid back above a point per game.

Then you both over estimate the other teams, and underestimate how easy it is to get into the playoffs when 16 teams make it in.

I kind of agree with you though. I still don’t think we make it in. Our glaring issues are covered up enough against bad teams, and yes we’ll get the occasional win against a good team because it’s hockey, but we aren’t a good team ourselves.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The frustrating thing is that some of the problems with this team are fixable, if they wanted them to be.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

@Icarium @eXile3 @pistolpete11 @BlindWillyMcHurt

Not as sold on this. I'm seeing a notable lack of exertion since early November.
He's starting shifts in float mode when he's fresh. He wasn't doing this less than 2 months ago. Didn't seem to be a problem when he was outworking Sid in October, at 38 years old. That's including on the 2nd nights of back to backs.

This is not a case of him going 100% and the body just not cooperating, like Brind'Amour near the end or w/e. He is making a conscious choice not to move his legs. He is not out of breath.
Malkin's an emotional player. You guys will see that he will begin to move better again when the line works better, much like how he was moving better when Tomasino first arrived, for a bit.
Sid is the same way. Suddenly it's not a problem for him to be in beast mode night after night, after ghosting in October. Why? Cuz his line's firing on all cylinders and he's juiced.

This is largely due to the mental impact of Malkin's production dropping off. The physical is a smaller piece of the pie.

 

[The Old Master]

I guess I'm partly wondering if, I keep seeing people saying he can't zoom night in and night out and age is getting to him... do we extend his career and make it easier on him if he's at wing? I understand the pluses of him as a C, and I understand that's his best position.

It's not a real solution right now regardless, our C depth is worse than our W depth, but if you have to solve the L2 problem, and you only get one try to fix it, is the best chance finding him a W or just making him 1LW and finding a new 2C?

I know that the vast majority of people on this board will say find him a W, and I'm in no position to argue, but I am curious if anyone thinks he's reaching an age and gas tank level where it's better to play him at W more than C

as i grab the torch from blind willy and run. i think it would be good to move geno to wing "BUT" i would not use him as a typical wing. the new center (rh) would handle face offs on his strong side, and all defensive duties in the defensive zone. allowing geno to stay up high doing loops at the blue line. this would force the de to stay back to cover Geno, taking away the pinch. and reducing the ice geno would need to cover. Geno could do the faceoffs on his strong side when where it might give us the advantage. also, this would let Geno go anywhere he wants from our blueline up to behind our opponent's net.

 

[vodeni]

@Icarium @eXile3 @pistolpete11 @BlindWillyMcHurt

Not as sold on this. I'm seeing a notable lack of exertion since early November.
He's starting shifts in float mode when he's fresh. He wasn't doing this less than 2 months ago. Didn't seem to be a problem when he was outworking Sid in October, at 38 years old. That's including on the 2nd nights of back to backs.

This is not a case of him going 100% and the body just not cooperating, like Brind'Amour near the end or w/e. He is making a conscious choice not to move his legs. He is not out of breath.
Malkin's an emotional player. You guys will see that he will begin to move better again when the line works better, much like how he was moving better when Tomasino first arrived, for a bit.
Sid is the same way. Suddenly it's not a problem for him to be in beast mode night after night, after ghosting in October. Why? Cuz his line's firing on all cylinders and he's juiced.

This is largely due to the mental impact of Malkin's production dropping off. The physical is a smaller piece of the pie.

There is a little bit of truth in this. It will take a little. It of luck in finding the best combo for that li e. Need a forechecker that can actually be faster than dman and slow down zone exit. Also it would help to play switch Geno some players that have a generic sense of positioning in offensive and neutral zone. Bunting has zero spatial awareness and 53 has never played with him. I was hoping to see Glass up there and Sully obliged , but same thing happened, Glass was just skating around without apparent purpose. I still think that DOC may be the best forechecked put him on LW and audition for the RW, maybe give Jesse a chance. It can’t get much worse

…and there is always option of trading him, I bet there will be suitors

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

@Icarium @eXile3 @pistolpete11 @BlindWillyMcHurt

Not as sold on this. I'm seeing a notable lack of exertion since early November.
He's starting shifts in float mode when he's fresh. He wasn't doing this less than 2 months ago. Didn't seem to be a problem when he was outworking Sid in October, at 38 years old. That's including on the 2nd nights of back to backs.

This is not a case of him going 100% and the body just not cooperating, like Brind'Amour near the end or w/e. He is making a conscious choice not to move his legs. He is not out of breath.
Malkin's an emotional player. You guys will see that he will begin to move better again when the line works better, much like how he was moving better when Tomasino first arrived, for a bit.
Sid is the same way. Suddenly it's not a problem for him to be in beast mode night after night, after ghosting in October. Why? Cuz his line's firing on all cylinders and he's juiced.

This is largely due to the mental impact of Malkin's production dropping off. The physical is a smaller piece of the pie.

On the surface at least it seems like you agree with me perhaps more than you think. Though I would say that him being 38 and having sustained a careers-worth of knee injuries is playing more than a small piece of the pie.

I kinda hope he just gets traded, too. There is nothing for him here and he isn't going to get any help. I feel like the coach is more interested in sticking it to him half the time as opposed to actually trying to buoy him in any kind of honest way. Hell look at the difference between how Sullivan talks about Sid while he's slumping and how he talks about Malkin. Like I said earlier... were I him I would not be happy either if I started off this year on fire with a line that was working for me only to be moved around, oblige and be repaid by having to carry around a bunch of trash.

EDIT: That all sounds perhaps a bit melodramatic lol... but I mean... I think at this point it might be the best thing for everyone and it would be a lot more fun to watch him actually have some success to end his career. I can't help but think whoever he went to would actually want him and would treat him as such. Dude is 38 and not what he was but he could still make a little noise for a team that sets him up to succeed. Plus the team could probably get another one of those incredible second round picks or something! Heck maybe MORE!

 

[AuroraBorealis]

On the surface at least it seems like you agree with me perhaps more than you think. Though I would say that him being 38 and having sustained a careers-worth of knee injuries is playing more than a small piece of the pie.

I kinda hope he just gets traded, too. There is nothing for him here and he isn't going to get any help. I feel like the coach is more interested in sticking it to him half the time as opposed to actually trying to buoy him in any kind of honest way. Hell look at the difference between how Sullivan talks about Sid while he's slumping and how he talks about Malkin. Like I said earlier... were I him I would not be happy either if I started off this year on fire with a line that was working for me only to be moved around, oblige and be repaid by having to carry around a bunch of trash.

EDIT: That all sounds perhaps a bit melodramatic lol... but I mean... I think at this point it might be the best thing for everyone and it would be a lot more fun to watch him actually have some success to end his career. I can't help but think whoever he went to would actually want him and would treat him as such. Dude is 38 and not what he was but he could still make a little noise for a team that sets him up to succeed. Plus the team could probably get another one of those incredible second round picks or something! Heck maybe MORE!

Geno is not a victim. He had Rakell more than Sid in the last 2 seasons. Bunting is a terrific even-strength winger too, and he got a lot of him. He's better than Rakell, career-wise.
Geno never even gets minutes cut when he's clearly slacking or taking idiotic penalties. Always 16+, no matter what. The leash for some bottom-sixers is completely different. He got 18:33 when he was a -4 vs Columbus for example.

There is no accountability with any of our core. Sullivan fears upsetting the apple cart. Look how bad EK and Letang were. There was no punishment. No yelling at them. No healthy scratches or period benchings. All he did was just change their partners. Sid also got a pass for a pitiful effort in October.
Sullivan will work with them to improve them, but that's only when they're cooperating.
He just handles it politically. It's how he's kept his job this long, and why the core doesn't hate his guts.

As for the knee thing, I'll buy that when I don't see clear evidence that he can skate when he wants to.

Here's an example: Florida Panthers - Pittsburgh Penguins - Dec 3, 2024 | NHL.com
Look at the replay of his goal. At his stop and starts, turning and hustle when engaged. This is from early December.
We've gotten this kinda movement very little from him since November. Just in spurts, when he's in the mood.

Yes, he needs a linemate combination that will turn him on more. And yes, it is his fault for not trying his best until that happens.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Alright nevermind. Have a nice weekend I guess.

 

[Icarium]

We've gotten this kinda movement very little from him since November. Just in spurts, when he's in the mood.

Maybe we can ask Mario to make another return. You know, when he is in the mood since that can apparently beat minor details like age.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Sad to say, but I think they could win tomorrow, like seriously. They just keep finding ways to win despite giving up the 1st goal early on. That's not suppose to happen.

New Jersey's goaltending is inconsistent enough that it is plausible, even if it ends up becoming a track meet kind of game.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Maybe we can ask Mario to make another return. You know, when he is in the mood since that can apparently beat minor details like age.

Maybe we can assess players fairly for a change, instead of just defending favorites

 

[BusinessGoose]

I'm fine with Geno as Sid's wing

My issue is that it's REALLY a one line team at that point. That's all. I dont even think Geno at C is all that great anymore, anyway.. He's lost such speed, how is he supposed to be the main defensive forward?

He's much better as a trailer into the zone and setting others up at this point. We just don't have good enough players to put with him to finish anything, and he's not getting into scoring position or shooting well enough to do it on his own.

 

[canadianguy77]

It’s also not crazy to say that it takes Sid a bit to get revved up and Geno gets more tired and his production drops off as the games start to become more frequent. There has to be seasons of evidence for that. Pay attention to the breaks. The times when they have 4 or 5 days off. Geno does better in the games coming off those breaks. Sid seems to do worse.

 

[canadianguy77]

Geno is not a victim. He had Rakell more than Sid in the last 2 seasons. Bunting is a terrific even-strength winger too, and he got a lot of him. He's better than Rakell, career-wise.
Geno never even gets minutes cut when he's clearly slacking or taking idiotic penalties. Always 16+, no matter what. The leash for some bottom-sixers is completely different. He got 18:33 when he was a -4 vs Columbus for example.

There is no accountability with any of our core. Sullivan fears upsetting the apple cart. Look how bad EK and Letang were. There was no punishment. No yelling at them. No healthy scratches or period benchings. All he did was just change their partners. Sid also got a pass for a pitiful effort in October.
Sullivan will work with them to improve them, but that's only when they're cooperating.
He just handles it politically. It's how he's kept his job this long, and why the core doesn't hate his guts.

As for the knee thing, I'll buy that when I don't see clear evidence that he can skate when he wants to.

Here's an example: Florida Panthers - Pittsburgh Penguins - Dec 3, 2024 | NHL.com
Look at the replay of his goal. At his stop and starts, turning and hustle when engaged. This is from early December.
We've gotten this kinda movement very little from him since November. Just in spurts, when he's in the mood.

Yes, he needs a linemate combination that will turn him on more. And yes, it is his fault for not trying his best until that happens.

He also gets a little bit of juice when he gets a new linemate and no one wants to talk about that.

If I’m Sullivan, to maximize Geno, I’m switching out one of his wingers every 5-10 games because it seems to get him excited to play. He just gets up to play when he has a new linemate. I can’t explain it, but a smart coach would capitalize on that aspect of 71’s psyche.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

He also gets a little bit of juice when he gets a new linemate and no one wants to talk about that.

If I’m Sullivan, to maximize Geno, I’m switching out one of his wingers every 5-10 games because it seems to get him excited to play. He just gets up to play when he has a new linemate. I can’t explain it, but a smart coach would capitalize on that aspect of 71’s psyche.

Yeah, that'd make sense. Not much to lose by trying.

I'd chalk that boost up to him feeling like he has to live up to teammates' expectations when they get him, combined with how he enjoys setting guys up. Then it wears off.

 

[Icarium]

Maybe we can assess players fairly for a change, instead of just defending favorites

It's precisely because Malkin is my favourite that I would love it if you are right and his play of late is because he is moody or sulking or whatever. Because that might actually change pretty soon for the better.

Him getting younger is a little less likely.

Seriously, when other players fall off a cliff because of age, we accept that. I don't recall anyone saying "Carter/Kunitz/Guerin/whoever needs to stop sulking". Just because a guy is a superstar doesn't mean time doesn't exist for him. Very few guys age like Pavelski. Kessel is younger than Malkin and he can't even find an NHL team willing to sign him, for instance.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

It's precisely because Malkin is my favourite that I would love it if you are right and his play of late is because he is moody or sulking or whatever. Because that might actually change pretty soon for the better.

Him getting younger is a little less likely.

Seriously, when other players fall off a cliff because of age, we accept that. I don't recall anyone saying "Carter/Kunitz/Guerin/whoever needs to stop sulking". Just because a guy is a superstar doesn't mean time doesn't exist for him. Very few guys age like Pavelski. Kessel is younger than Malkin and he can't even find an NHL team willing to sign him, for instance.

I feel like you're just resorting to stereotypes and looking for cookie-cutter answers instead of actually paying attention to what he's doing.

He is making an active choice to float on shifts, at the very start of them, when his tank is full. His legs are not extending. His turning is lazy. His forechecking is lazy.
His determination on the walls has weakened. His playmaking is more careless. His willingness to backcheck is disappearing.

Malkin was our best player in October, including in heavy schedule situations. He was even pretty solid defensively.
I don't buy that the death knell came in 2 months.
Plus I see sporadic shifts where his skating suddenly re-emerges, because he sees a chance at easy offense.

You will see a stretch later on when he can suddenly move fine again, and I will ping you when that happens.