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GDT: Pens vs Blues (8PM EST)

Gurglesons said:
He's not good defensively.
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He's fine. He's a positive possession player, breaks even on expected goals, positive high danger shots against, and none of his even strength stats are skewed by competition or overly favorable zone starts.

He's the definition of steady, which is what a team in transition needs. He's not all offense like Grzelcyk. He's not a dumpster fire like Graves. He's a bit more skilled version of Timmins, and that's perfectly fine.
 
DesertedPenguin said:
He's fine. He's a positive possession player, breaks even on expected goals, positive high danger shots against, and none of his even strength stats are skewed by competition or overly favorable zone starts.

He's the definition of steady, which is what a team in transition needs. He's not all offense like Grzelcyk. He's not a dumpster fire like Graves. He's a bit more skilled version of Timmins, and that's perfectly fine.
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I’ll take Timmins over him all day.
 
Gurglesons said:
I’ll take Timmins over him all day.
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OK. Look, it's more of an exercise that I'd like to see Dubas improve the defenseman depth this summer while still ideally trading Karlsson (and Rakell) for assets.

So a 26 year old defenseman who has some skill but who won't cost a ton as a UFA is ideal. There are other ways to do this, too - offer sheet for Hague, a trade for someone blocked, etc.

But I think there is a window to clear the runway a bit for developing prospects, get younger overall, add more assets, and actually improve the overall defense to help the young goalies. Because as much as I liked the initial Karlsson move, he and Letang going on adventures in their own zone coupled with Graves and Grzelcyk is just not going to help Blomqvist and Murashov.
 
HandshakeLine said:
I don’t care about helping Blomqvist. I thought we were rebuilding or pivoting or whatever?
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You want to develop the goaltenders during this process, though. Leaving them on an island isn't going to help them. I'm willing to sacrifice some offense from the blue line in favor of less exciting defensemen who will be reasonably sound positionally for a couple years while the goalies adjust to the NHL.
 
DesertedPenguin said:
You want to develop the goaltenders during this process, though. Leaving them on an island isn't going to help them. I'm willing to sacrifice some offense from the blue line in favor of less exciting defensemen who will be reasonably sound positionally for a couple years while the goalies adjust to the NHL.
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I just don’t think Blomqvist is anything special and is probably just going to be cannon fodder. I wouldn’t compromise the rebuild on his account. Murashov is also most likely going to come down to earth and eventually drift around the league.
 
Tbh with Letang being liquid shit with his current usage, I'm not sure if I want to trade Karlsson so quickly. Trading Karlsson means there is no way you can put Letang in an easier role to see if that helps him.

Karlsson has a worse +/- than Letang, but Karlsson is only a -7 at 5v5 while Letang is a a -15. Letang will probably go from about a -15 at 5v5 to a -30 at 5v5 if you trade Karlsson due to the increase in responsibility Letang will get from that.
 
HandshakeLine said:
I just don’t think Blomqvist is anything special and is probably just going to be cannon fodder. I wouldn’t compromise the rebuild on his account. Murashov is also most likely going to come down to earth and eventually drift around the league.
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Goalies are unpredictable. But you have to at least give them an environment where they aren't under siege all of the time to truly determine what you have in them.

So, yeah, Blomqvist and Murashov may not be what we all hope they will become. But I'd rather give them a reasonable chance instead of playing them behind this current defense.
 
DesertedPenguin said:
Goalies are unpredictable. But you have to at least give them an environment where they aren't under siege all of the time to truly determine what you have in them.

So, yeah, Blomqvist and Murashov may not be what we all hope they will become. But I'd rather give them a reasonable chance instead of playing them behind this current defense.
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Yes, if you are competing and putting the resources into developing them. But that's counterproductive in our current situation (and let's be honest, that probably extends through next year too). If the idea is to "pivot" then we should plummet, and try to rebuild quickly. If we're going for a traditional rebuild we also want to plummet and spend a little more time at the bottom to restock the pond and get the pieces to build around.

But we're determined to get back to the postseason as fast as possible, in which case, we shouldn't even be bothering with Blomqvist or Murashov really, but finding a way to get rid of Jarry and Ned and sign better, established goalies. We should be moving whoever can be moved on the blue line and rebuilding it because there's nothing there worth building around.
 
Like I'm normally sympathetic to the idea we should make our goalies' lives easier, but right now, we literally do not care if we let in a bazillion goals outside of pride.
 
HandshakeLine said:
Like I'm normally sympathetic to the idea we should make our goalies' lives easier, but right now, we literally do not care if we let in a bazillion goals outside of pride.
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Making modest improvements and changes to the defense isn't going to drastically impact the ability to win or lose, largely because the Penguins' best players are going to be another year older and others will be traded.

Malkin is a year older. Letang is a year older. Ideally Karlsson and Rakell are traded.

Consider next year being a year where you're further clearing space/roster spots for the incoming build-up to contention. Replacing Karlsson with guys like Hague and Perbix, or similar players on similar deals, isn't a huge impact in wins/losses. That happens when you add all-star caliber players. Plus, with at least one young goalie (Blomqvist) ideally getting reps, there will still be bumps in the road.
 
Pancakes said:
The Penguins shouldn't try to compete next year or even the year after with McKenna and Dupont available.

I hope Dubas stays patient. Play some kids next year and keep building.
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This is where I am. Trying to finesse this is way more riskier of a rebuild (and silly IMO) than just clearing deadweight and starting over.
 
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HandshakeLine said:
This is where I am. Trying to finesse this is way more riskier of a rebuild (and silly IMO) than just clearing deadweight and starting over.
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It's a copycat league and right now Washington is the expectation every non-contender has. Stupid I know, but because they see it happen once now every owner wants it for their team. Even though Washington has not accomplished anything in the postseason yet.
 
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Then they should have been way more proactive about getting usable current assets (not 2027 picks) if they wanted to do that. I keep hearing people say "they're rebuilding" but they're not seemingly doing that completely, but also nobody's really acquiring the kind of players we need to compete now. I just really still don't get how we're supposedly going to pull this off without hitting on some absolute gems in this draft who are a year out at max.
 
Pancakes said:
The Penguins shouldn't try to compete next year or even the year after with McKenna and Dupont available.

I hope Dubas stays patient. Play some kids next year and keep building.
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I 100% agree with your premise!

However, Calling these kids up now was to create a spark and it did and we accumulated three out of four points as a result. If you're tanking (again my strong preference) you don't do that. After the road trip we just had, we should have let it be and just mailed in the rest of the season. Unfortunately this team is choosing the opposite. And it's a real shame because we could have gotten a really nice piece for the future in this draft and by the day we're blowin that opportunity. At least to get a core piece for the future.
 
Ryder71 said:
I 100% agree with your premise!

However, Calling these kids up now was to create a spark and it did and we accumulated three out of four points as a result. If you're tanking (again my strong preference) you don't do that. After the road trip we just had, we should have let it be and just mail in the rest of the season. Unfortunately this team is choosing the opposite. And it's a real shame because we could have gotten a really nice piece for the future in this draft and by the day we're blowin that opportunity.
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I think it’s pretty clear that yet again the GM and the coach are at cross purposes.

Which is now, what, the third time this has happened?
 
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HandshakeLine said:
I think it’s pretty clear that yet again the GM and the coach are at cross purposes.

Which is now, what, the third time this has happened?
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But Dubas called these kids up. That's on him. He should have left them down there after an embarrassing road trip and just sulk the rest of the season. I simply don't understand when you're this close to the end of the season this sort of mindset. You're just hindering the ability to draft a very talented draft pick, for what? The kids should have stayed in the minors, wins/points now only hurt us.
 
Ryder71 said:
But Dubas called these kids up. That's on him. He should have left them down there after an embarrassing road trip and just sulk the rest of the season. I simply don't understand when you're this close to the end of the season this sort of mindset. You're just hindering the ability to draft a very talented draft pick, for what? The kids should have stayed in the minors, wins/points now only hurt us.
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There were injuries. He had to call someone up.
Even if he'd left Koppanen and Bemstrom up, there was still another forward slot to fill.
I suppose it could've been Poulin.
 
And for McGroarty and Koivunen I'm sincerely happy for them! But right now it's not what's best for the team concerning the draft. This could have taken place in next years pre season. You're in shouting distance to the end of the season and you do this? It's like having a headache and using a sledgehammer to try and correct it! It's lunacy!
 
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