Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: We Hayes Dubas's offseason moves so far

[HandshakeLine]

I don't know about 'better', but the Rangers don't have a 2nd in 2025 or 2026, so it's the earliest 2nd we could've gotten from them.

Huh. I'll grudgingly add that makes a bit more sense, but I'd still rather drive a harder bargain for letting the Rags unload their useless junk. But it seems to me that the team didn't quite see it as taking a bad contract to gain a rebuilding asset and that's what worries me.

You trade Petts, 100%. Not even a hesitation. Maybe you can trade him down the line with his new extension, maybe you can't--but guys like Petts go for late 1sts to competing teams all the time at the TDL.

Oh no doubt. Trade him now if the market's there, trade him at the TDL, just if you DO sign him (and you know they will), don't give him some insane NMC (and you also know they will).

 

[AuroraBorealis]

As far as keeping Pettersson goes, I'd say it depends on how much the contract is for.
The idea of keeping him around as a veteran isn't a horrible one. We will want veterans around to help guide the n00blets after the core is gone.
But, I don't want to pay him $6M a season to do that.

Keep him to guide the youth that won't be here when the team is ready to contend?
How about we just acquire futures for him, and then use the free 6M per to take on bad contracts for more futures?

Wouldn't we draft higher without Petts too?

Sigh. It's so clear what they need to do. They just won't do it.

 

[HandshakeLine]

What is Petts actually going to teach anyone? How to be a 3/4?

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Huh. I'll grudgingly add that makes a bit more sense, but I'd still rather drive a harder bargain for letting the Rags unload their useless junk. But it seems to me that the team didn't quite see it as taking a bad contract to gain a rebuilding asset and that's what worries me.

We didn't get the 2nd from the Rangers for taking a player, we got it (along with a 2025 5th) for giving them Reilly Smith.
The 2nd we got from the Blues for taking Hayes is a 2025 2nd.

Keep him to guide the youth that won't be here when the team is ready to contend?

Why wouldn't a player such as Harrison Brunicke or Emil Pieniniemi be here when the team is ready to contend?

What is Petts actually going to teach anyone? How to be a 3/4?

Yes?
The veterans that are good at showing younger players the ropes aren't always the ones who are the very best at their game.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

You trade Petts, 100%. Not even a hesitation. Maybe you can trade him down the line with his new extension, maybe you can't--but guys like Petts go for late 1sts to competing teams all the time at the TDL.

If we can get a 1st for him, that changes things. But for me, it would take a minimum of a 1st to trade him if he's willing to accept a reasonable contract.

 

[canadianguy77]

What is Petts actually going to teach anyone? How to be a 3/4?

You think that’s what he is? I dunno. Guy looks like he’s starting to put it all together at 27.

 

[HandshakeLine]

You think that’s what he is? I dunno. Guy looks like he’s starting to put it all together at 27.

I don't think he's a top pairing guy, no. But neither was Dumoulin. It's not a bad thing, but I don't think he's as elite as apparently people think.

That said, I don't think holding on to him does anything. BFD's right, people pay though the nose for worse come TDL, and this team has a bad habit of holding on to players we should be selling high on.

Also again, I think positional hockey is boring and largely ineffectual, so I would like to not watch that, thank you.

 

[HandshakeLine]

To reiterate, trading Petts at his peak makes infinitely more sense than waiting until Crosby retires, especially if you get some decent 1st + ___ offers going on.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

If they wanted him gone he wouldn't be here. They want him here or they would have asked out. They certainly wouldn't sign long term extensions like they have otherwise. They're enabling him to stay.

This is all baseless conjecture. Again, the core don’t make personnel decisions on the coaching staff. We ought not to blame them for things that are out of their control.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If we can get a 1st for him, that changes things. But for me, it would take a minimum of a 1st to trade him if he's willing to accept a reasonable contract.

Petts is a nothingmancer, he's a whatever middle pairing guy--there's like 50 Petts clones in the NHL. People overrate the guy so much around here because he's the only blueliner with half a brain in his own zone. Take the return, whatever it may be, and let him sign a reasonable contract (with the NTC that'll definitely be attached) with the team he's dealt to.

 

[Ugene Magic]

To reiterate, trading Petts at his peak makes infinitely more sense than waiting until Crosby retires, especially if you get some decent 1st + ___ offers going on.

Imagine what a signed Petts on a 5/6 year term will be worth at 6.0 on average down the road?

The team isn't exactly flooded with capable LD.

The team still has to operate at a 65.0 floor at minimum which is just less 1 Crosby, 1 Karlsson and 1 Malkin away from that. They are not going to lose value on Petts if they re-sign him.

The Pens gaining any 1sts at the TDL are not worth a whole damn lot. But if they re-sign him and trade him during normal trading periods you have a chance to gain a first from a future up and comer++.

I also feel if Sid jumps ship after putting forth effort to gaining Geno + Kris to re-sign is pore form just a year from doing so.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

As far as keeping Pettersson goes, I'd say it depends on how much the contract is for.
The idea of keeping him around as a veteran isn't a horrible one. We will want veterans around to help guide the n00blets after the core is gone.
But, I don't want to pay him $6M a season to do that.

With Letang and EK still under contract for a couple more years, no point in keeping Petts. Bring in a big return as defense usually brings back a nice haul at the deadline. Letang and EK can serve as the vets for the next couple of seasons before they're also traded away in the long run. I think we can definitely get a 1st and prospect for Marcus

 

[Ugene Magic]

With Letang and EK still under contract for a couple more years, no point in keeping Petts. Bring in a big return as defense usually brings back a nice haul at the deadline. Letang and EK can serve as the vets for the next couple of seasons before they're also traded away in the long run. I think we can definitely get a 1st and prospect for Marcus

At the TDL you are getting very late poor 1sts. Look at what Jake just returned, and not a one darn 1st. They are limited to what teams are willing to give up for UFA's.

 

[chethejet]

To me it is really about Petts being a third pairing and maybe a second pairing D man as to his position. He is decent 2nd pairing but still lacks the offensive skills to be a really good 2nd pairing D man. His stats are very good as to defending. yet that is about as far as he gets. Do you pay 5 or 6 million AAV for that? I certainly think hard about that.

 

[SomeDude]

Keeping Pettersson would be the same old staying in the middle half in half out BS. Trade the man. Today if possible.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Signing Petts isn’t a big deal. It can allow us time to negotiate a better trade deal. It should be between 5-6mil probably 6 since the cap is due to go up quite a bit again.

The main thing for me is the trade clauses in the first 2 years. They need to be non existent or very weak so we have the flexibility to trade him. That’s the key.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

To me it is really about Petts being a third pairing and maybe a second pairing D man as to his position. He is decent 2nd pairing but still lacks the offensive skills to be a really good 2nd pairing D man. His stats are very good as to defending. yet that is about as far as he gets. Do you pay 5 or 6 million AAV for that? I certainly think hard about that.

Marcus Pettersson scored 29 even-strength points last season, got for (a tie for) 27th in the league for defensemen.

What exactly do you expect, offensively, from a 2nd-pairing defenseman?

Peruse this chart posted by @dgibb10 on HFDevils:

Also he's not going to be on the power play because of luke and nemec. Hitting 40 points almost exclusively even strength would be ridiculous offensive production.

For context, just 8 dmen reached 40 even strength points this year.

Dougie hamilton has reached 40 even strength points just once in his career (22-23).

Since 2007, Just 29 dmen have reached 40 even strength points.
View attachment 892246

 

[dgibb10]

Marcus Pettersson scored 29 even-strength points last season, got for (a tie for) 27th in the league for Defensemen.

What exactly do you expect, offensively, from a 2nd-pairing defenseman?

Peruse this chart posted by @dgibb10 on HFDevils:

Everything I've seen from Pettersson this year has shot him further and further up in value in my eyes. I think he might be better than Noah Hanifin at this point in terms of rental comps.

If you can sign Marcus Pettersson for anything sub 6.5 you take that and run

 

[Ryder71]

This is all baseless conjecture. Again, the core don’t make personnel decisions on the coaching staff. We ought not to blame them for things that are out of their control.

This isn't baseless at all, it's very much steeped in reality. star players even ancient ones like we have can make life extremely uncomfortable for a coach if they want. They do the absolute opposite!

What it is is you don't want to blame the core for anything that's wrong. Keep in mind this team has won nothing since 2018. That's a long time ago now and what are the constants since then? Same coach, same core that's aging out. A marriage made in futility! This core most certainly has a lot to do with this team not turning the page or being stale.

 

[OnMyOwn]

You keep petts for the season and see if we’ll be in the playoffs so he’s here for a “run”. If we’re out of the playoffs, trade him. I wouldn’t touch an extension right now.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

At the TDL you are getting very late poor 1sts. Look at what Jake just returned, and not a one darn 1st. They are limited to what teams are willing to give up for UFA's.

Jake wasn't signing here from what the rumors indicate, he returned a pretty nice package to be honest. Much better than losing him for nothing. Again with Letang and EK still signed, why keep Marcus around

 

[HandshakeLine]

anything is by definition better than “losing for nothing”, given that nothing is, well, nothing.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Its kind of funny looking back on the Guentzel trade thread on the Canes board. At worst, Canes fans thought the trade was fair with many thinking they gave up too much for a rental. Then you take a look on here and you'd think that Dubas traded away Guentzel for a 3rd or something.

 

[Turin]

Its kind of funny looking back on the Guentzel trade thread on the Canes board. At worst, Canes fans thought the trade was fair with many thinking they gave up too much for a rental. Then you take a look on here and you'd think that Dubas traded away Guentzel for a 3rd or something.

Cuz they actually know about their prospects and nobody here knew anything

 

[HandshakeLine]

The veterans that are good at showing younger players the ropes aren't always the ones who are the very best at their game.

No argument, but what makes you think Petts is that kind of vet?