Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: Dull days of August... Oooo! A trade!

[Al Smith]

Great Actually!

Notable standouts:
LW - McGroaty: 1 goal, 2 pts
RW - Koivunen: 2 assists
C - Broz: 2 goals
C - Ponomarev 1G, hell of a motor
RHD - Brunicke
G - Murashov: 0 goals allowed Game one, 2 Goals Game Two

Light years better than what we've iced in the past few years. Still, it's only a prospects challenge. Looking forward to seeing these guys at camp and maybe playing against NHL talent in some pre-season games. Still one more game tomorrow against the Sabres' prospects.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Didn't Giroux have a few years on his contract? He wasn't a rental was he?

He was a UFA to be. He would have been traded earlier, but the Flyers wanted him to play 1,000 games before he was dealt.

Signed with Ottawa the offseason. After he left the Panthers went on two Cup runs.

 

[Darren McCord]

I would have much rather moved Jake for say Kappo, 1st and 3rd then the package we did.

So would I but the rangers weren't giving that up. They even said that is what the pens were looking for from them but that was to much.

You are assuming a better deal was out there.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

If Bunting puts up 40 - 50 pts by the deadline and you can move him for a late 1rst or 2nd+ prospect. The value is pretty similar. But that is if they move Bunting which they won't.

In which case that'd be bad GM'ing after the trade, not a bad trade itself.
People here are overestimating rental Jake's value. No one who was after Jake at the deadline was prepared to extend him for huge money and term.
That means they weren't going to give up the universe for him.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

So would I but the rangers weren't giving that up. They even said that is what the pens were looking for from them but that was to much.

You are assuming a better deal was out there.

Is that really too much? I'd probably wager the players we got from the Canes will end up having a better career than Kaapo because the Rangers refuse to accept that he isn't going to work out in NY.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

So I listened to the Crosby interview on Friedman's 32 Thoughts. As usual, he did not say much of anything. But in terms of tone, he just does not sound like a guy who is buying into what this team has done and where this team is going. He does not speak at all about the retool, does not talk at all about the young talent acquired, and certainly sounds like a guy who expects reinforcements to be brought in this season (and not more Guentzel trades).

Just an opinion, probably matters little. But there still seems to be a disconnect between what the pres/GM is trying to do and what the top guys and coaching staff are planning.

Of course, Dubas has said all along that he was going to try to do these two polar opposite ways of thinking at the same time, so it should not be a surprise to anyone in the organization. I just don't know whether or not it can work if the captain does not completely buy in.

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

So I listened to the Crosby interview on Friedman's 32 Thoughts. As usual, he did not say much of anything. But in terms of tone, he just does not sound like a guy who is buying into what this team has done and where this team is going. He does not speak at all about the retool, does not talk at all about the young talent acquired, and certainly sounds like a guy who expects reinforcements to be brought in this season (and not more Guentzel trades).

Just an opinion, probably matters little. But there still seems to be a disconnect between what the pres/GM is trying to do and what the top guys and coaching staff are planning.

Of course, Dubas has said all along that he was going to try to do these two polar opposite ways of thinking at the same time, so it should not be a surprise to anyone in the organization. I just don't know whether or not it can work if the captain does not completely buy in.

Yeah I mean, Sid’s not dumb. He knows if he re-signs, he most likely isn’t going to win another Cup. Might not even make the playoffs again. I don’t expect to hear him sound too jazzed about that.

Due think this week will be interesting in relation to Crosby. I think there’s a chance we get the extension either today or tomorrow but a part of me thought it could’ve been done by now with the way he responded last Monday and how sure of it he sounded at the time.

 

[molon labe]

So I listened to the Crosby interview on Friedman's 32 Thoughts. As usual, he did not say much of anything. But in terms of tone, he just does not sound like a guy who is buying into what this team has done and where this team is going. He does not speak at all about the retool, does not talk at all about the young talent acquired, and certainly sounds like a guy who expects reinforcements to be brought in this season (and not more Guentzel trades).

Just an opinion, probably matters little. But there still seems to be a disconnect between what the pres/GM is trying to do and what the top guys and coaching staff are planning.

Of course, Dubas has said all along that he was going to try to do these two polar opposite ways of thinking at the same time, so it should not be a surprise to anyone in the organization. I just don't know whether or not it can work if the captain does not completely buy in.

It's the job of the players and coaches to believe they can do it every single year regardless of circumstance. Sid probably DID feel they were "right in it" before Jake left (regardless of how they'd performed WITH Jake before that).

The core went on a run without their #1D in 2017 for goodness sake. Takes a mindset to do that.

I know all the comments about Sid not being dumb and realizing where this team is, but I honestly think he's probably the last person in Pittsburgh to actually see or realize it. He will march head first into a 2025 stretch with DOC on his (top) line and think they're the best team in the league each and every puck drop. Objectivity doesn't exist in that head and nor should it.

It's the job (and always has been) of the GM to be objective and steer the team. This one stapled himself to a coach/system that didn't work before and isn't going to work now - and is unironically not very good with youth. So that's just the headscratcher this board will never solve. As for the players - I just don't see what rationale we're supposed to have with the same damn group that's failed to produce heading into another season where they're just... older. Like, we didn't bring in a new top C where we're discussing Sid as a possible 40-50 goal winger. Or a 2C where Geno is going to shift to focusing on goals only. This team is literally the same old product. What measure we're supposed to see other than a league that's gotten better with our team that's gotten both worse, and older. Writing is on the wall and I genuinely think Sid is the last to see it, and though he hasn't signed, I believe he will and he'll continue saying the right things and keeping his belief that they can do it. [Naturally we'd love to see it...but there's being an idealist and also completely refusing to believe reality]

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The thing with a player of Sid's caliber is that they always think they have a shot at the Cup and they're confident--bordering on arrogant--about their ability to overcome odds and all that. The hesitation on Sid's part is probably him finally realizing that the ride's almost over and this team's shot.

Once that little bit of doubt creeps in, I imagine it's really hard to regain the fire. I believe him when he says he'll re-sign and that he'll only be a Penguin, but I definitely don't think it's as much of a slam dunk, easy decision as it would've been a couple years ago.

 

[molon labe]

So would I but the rangers weren't giving that up. They even said that is what the pens were looking for from them but that was to much.

You are assuming a better deal was out there.

A few Ranger fans/friends seemed all too thrilled at that idea.

Probably another case of fans knowing better than a front office what would jolt their team. I'm glad Jake didn't end up in NY tbh lol - BUTTT that package would have been a great get. Bunting was a nice second option I just wasn't sure about the prospects over picks idea.

 

[molon labe]

The thing with a player of Sid's caliber is that they always think they have a shot at the Cup and they're confident--bordering on arrogant--about their ability to overcome odds and all that. The hesitation on Sid's part is probably him finally realizing that the ride's almost over and this team's shot.

Once that little bit of doubt creeps in, I imagine it's really hard to regain the fire. I believe him when he says he'll re-sign and that he'll only be a Penguin, but I definitely don't think it's as much of a slam dunk, easy decision as it would've been a couple years ago.

I wish he would do it somewhere else (preferably Colorado). He's done so much for my favorite team that I can genuinely wish him the best possible outcome and do not care about him putting on another jersey.

- Want to chase 2nd all time in scoring? Better do it elsewhere.
- Play til you're 40, 45?? Doesn't take a lot of critical thought to realize you'd be better off playing 2C minutes / wing minutes to increase that chance.
- Play for another cup? Hell...even make the playoffs?? Not doing it here.
- Playoff scoring? You're stat line is very likely cemented here in Pittsburgh. I'd be shocked if we saw the first round again over the next 4+ seasons. And, as the only real threat on the ice - you're going to be outright smothered without much chance of success during your shifts.

Some fans see this. Many hockey minds/analysts see this. But, I agree with most that he probably won't do it. I don't buy that he "doesn't care about playing here and losing" nor that "he's done it all why does he care about another cup?" - if either of those were true he would very likely already be retired. What I think is that he's genuinely a creature of habit, stubborn, wants to play with his buddies, and feels some connection with playing with the same team. No biggie (kinda cool, honestly). But I feel this is a situation that both sides would benefit from if he moved on. He could play meaningful hockey and this team could tear things to the studs. I love the Penguins - but Sid is a rare athlete/person that I have an affinity to beyond my favorite team.

Be honest with you all - between the Top Gear/Grand Tour group and the Penguins - my television ties are about dried up at the moment. End of several eras here.

 

[Empoleon8771]

32 thoughts:

Sidney Crosby’s extension, as he said, is on the front-burner. He laughed when we asked if there would be an “87” in it (my prediction is $10.875M, but that’s a personal guess). He changed one previous stance, that he wouldn’t play at 40. There’s still no guarantee, but after a 94-point season that still cemented him as one of the NHL’s best, he acknowledged the possibility.

“I would say I'm probably a little more open than I was before to get to that point if I feel good…You’re basically trying to predict where you're going to be in a few years. I'd love to sign an eight-year deal, don't get me wrong, but with my age and not knowing how long I'm going to play for, we'll see. We'll see what that term is. But it wouldn't be something on the longer side.”

Crosby also pooh-poohed my suggestion that he was concerned about the Penguins not being a Stanley Cup contender.

“I really enjoy the expectation to win. I think that's something that pushes all of us. For the guys who have been there for a number of years (Evgeni Malkin and Kris Letang), that's something that we're proud of. We want to go into a season with that expectation, regardless of what moves are made, what the team looks like….There's going to be different moves, going to be turnover and that's okay. But we're coming into the season to try to win, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that and hopefully that gets the best out of us.”

He did admit he watched more playoff hockey than usual — “you just want to see what separates the teams that make it and those that don’t.” He was very impressed with the quality of play.

$10.875 million for an extension for him seems about right tbh.

So I listened to the Crosby interview on Friedman's 32 Thoughts. As usual, he did not say much of anything. But in terms of tone, he just does not sound like a guy who is buying into what this team has done and where this team is going. He does not speak at all about the retool, does not talk at all about the young talent acquired, and certainly sounds like a guy who expects reinforcements to be brought in this season (and not more Guentzel trades).

Just an opinion, probably matters little. But there still seems to be a disconnect between what the pres/GM is trying to do and what the top guys and coaching staff are planning.

Of course, Dubas has said all along that he was going to try to do these two polar opposite ways of thinking at the same time, so it should not be a surprise to anyone in the organization. I just don't know whether or not it can work if the captain does not completely buy in.

Friedman's interpretation of that interview is in direct conflict with your interpretation of it.

 

[Andy99]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5767073/2024/09/16/penguins-roster-projection-nhl/

Jesus, this is a horrific lineup…bottom of the Metro…Pens will win more games and have a chance at the playoffs if they play McG, Broz, Pono and Puusty…guarantee…waive Hayes, trade Eller…awful

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

So I listened to the Crosby interview on Friedman's 32 Thoughts. As usual, he did not say much of anything. But in terms of tone, he just does not sound like a guy who is buying into what this team has done and where this team is going. He does not speak at all about the retool, does not talk at all about the young talent acquired, and certainly sounds like a guy who expects reinforcements to be brought in this season (and not more Guentzel trades).

Just an opinion, probably matters little. But there still seems to be a disconnect between what the pres/GM is trying to do and what the top guys and coaching staff are planning.

Of course, Dubas has said all along that he was going to try to do these two polar opposite ways of thinking at the same time, so it should not be a surprise to anyone in the organization. I just don't know whether or not it can work if the captain does not completely buy in.

Agreed!! At the end of the day we all know Sid pretty well by now, if this is still ongoing it's cause he is seriously considering a change of scenery. If he really wanted to be here, the contract would have been signed 2 months ago.. Personally, I think he will leave

 

[Empoleon8771]

That article has literally nothing of substance outside of "Lizotte can play LW, but the Penguins prefer him at center". Which isn't surprising for a Josh Yohe article.

 

[Andy99]

That article has literally nothing of substance outside of "Lizotte can play LW, but the Penguins prefer him at center". Which isn't surprising for a Josh Yohe article.

He also has Hayes at LW, even though he’s been practicing at RW with Geno lol…this is a gem too

“[McG] he likely will make the team.

Kevin Hayes is an interesting case. He’s a natural center and can still play at the NHL level. He doesn’t have much speed, which contradicts what I said about Malkin and wingers in this system needing to be fast. It’s not a perfect lineup nor am I sure how well Hayes will fit.

But given his track record, he’ll get a chance to play from the beginning of the season. It’s unclear if center makes the most sense for him given the lineup’s composition.”

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

He did admit he watched more playoff hockey than usual — “you just want to see what separates the teams that make it and those that don’t.” He was very impressed with the quality of play.

That little bit is funny because watching the other teams around the league each spring, I'm always like "Jesus, there's zero way the Pens can match this level of intensity and jump." It's like night and day.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Not that Yohe is credible, but the lineup he's throwing out there look something like:

O'Connor-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell
McGroarty-Eller-Glass
Hayes-Lizotte-Acciari
Beauvillier-Puustinen

Pettersson-Karlsson
Grzelcyk-Letang
Graves-St. Ivany
Ludvig

Jarry-Nedjelkovic

Honestly I'm pretty content with this, the only change I'd make is swapping Hayes and Lizotte on L4 because I think Lizotte won't work at center for the same reason that Acciari didn't.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Rakell works better as Crosby's RW, so, of course, he won't play there.

*breathe, GS, breathe, it's going to be a long season*

 

[Andy99]

Not that Yohe is credible, but the lineup he's throwing out there look something like:

O'Connor-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell
McGroarty-Eller-Glass
Hayes-Lizotte-Acciari
Beauvillier-Puustinen

Pettersson-Karlsson
Grzelcyk-Letang
Graves-St. Ivany
Ludvig

Jarry-Nedjelkovic

Honestly I'm pretty content with this, the only change I'd make is swapping Hayes and Lizotte on L4 because I think Lizotte won't work at center for the same reason that Acciari didn't.

Really? I think it’s awful…too many vets crowding the forward lineup..we’re not competitive over the longer haul with them…I’d like to see us, if not start with, at least morph into something like this forward lineup as the season progresses…we’re too slow at forward and aren’t going to win many OT games because of it and our PP is stagnant because of too many old guys on it and we need actual shooters to win some shootouts too…younger lineup would get us more points and give us better chance to get in the playoffs

Broz-Sid-Rust
Bunting-Geno-McG/Puusty/Glass
DOC-Pono-Rakell
Lizotte-Eller-McG/Puusty/Glass
Beauvillier (Puusty or Glass)
Hayes waived

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

That article has literally nothing of substance outside of "Lizotte can play LW, but the Penguins prefer him at center". Which isn't surprising for a Josh Yohe article.

I want to rage cancel my subscription so bad because of how shit the Pens coverage is… but they employ Dane Brugler.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Really? I think it’s awful…too many vets crowding the forward lineup..we’re not competitive over the longer haul with them…I’d like to see us, if not start with, at least morph into something like this forward lineup as the season progresses…we’re too slow at forward and aren’t going to win many OT games because of it and our PP is stagnant because of too many old guys on it and we need actual shooters to win some shootouts too…younger lineup would get us more points and give us better chance to get in the playoffs

Broz-Sid-Rust
Bunting-Geno-McG/Puusty/Glass
DOC-Pono-Rakell
Lizotte-Eller-McG/Puusty/Glass
Beauvillier (Puusty or Glass)
Hayes waived

Wanting Broz on L1 because he had a good 2 games at rookie camp is definitely a take.

 

[Malkinstheman]

I want to rage cancel my subscription so bad because of how shit the Pens coverage is… but they employ Dane Brugler.

archive.ph

Post any athletic link in here and voila.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Wanting Broz on L1 because he had a good 2 games at rookie camp is definitely a take.

Just shows how starved we are for decent young promising players and have had a lack for years!!! lol

 

[Darren McCord]

Is that really too much? I'd probably wager the players we got from the Canes will end up having a better career than Kaapo because the Rangers refuse to accept that he isn't going to work out in NY.

According to the GM and writers yes, that was to much for them. I don’t agree but that’s what they said.