Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: Dull days of August... Oooo! A trade!

[Buddy Bizarre]

Farkas and allegedly the Jets board say otherwise:

Prospect Info: - Pittsburgh Penguins Prospects Thread: 2023-2024 Edition

I think Russian/KHL/VHL/MHL players are indefinite: https://capwages.com/teams/pittsburgh_penguins CapFriendly had the same thing. Yeah, depends on the league: https://canucksbanter.ca/2023/06/02/full-2023-list-of-nhl-expired-draft-rights-unless-signed-on-or-before-june-1-2023-deadline/...

forums.hfboards.com

Again, saying I can do something and actually doing said thing are two different things.

I'd be thrilled if he can play both W but won't believe it til I see it.

Rust has said the same thing and has played both wings in the NHL.
He's appreciably better on the right

 

[Ugene Magic]

First of all, let's be an NHLer first.

Second, "I'm comfortable at either wing" is something most guys would say. It's highly questionable that someone who played both wings would say "it's the same thing" because it's very much not, especially for a player of his particular set of skills. But to be fair, if there are doofuses (doofi?) in the crowd that don't know what F1 is or whatever, then sure, no reason to go into detail anyhow...

Third, I'll admit I haven't seen every single shift he's ever played. But considering his power play production, I hope folks aren't confusing "players playing the right dot on the power play" as being a RWer in highlight videos.

EDIT: Oh ****, as I was typing it...haha

Him playing there from the faceoff on the PP or 5 on 5 he seems "comfortable" is a pretty fair statement/assessment. He can play anywhere on the ice. Plus, being a LHS makes the RW more attractive.

You are pretty accurate most times, and I like reading your stuff. Most of us haven't a clue about another teams drafted prospect. Were all learning.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’m still convinced Sully will do his best to turn him into ZAR.

I'm not overly worried about that, remember ZAR actually got a lot of top-9 and top-6 looks when he first broke out into the NHL.

He ended up a defense only 4th liner because he pretty miserably failed while playing with Malkin and whoever the Penguins 3C was at the time. In ZAR's first 2 years in the NHL, he played about 40% of his ice time with at least one of Kessel or Malkin. I remember ZAR-Malkin-Kessel, ZAR-Sheahan-Kessel and ZAR-Brassard-Kessel as 3 lines he was pretty regularly used on in those years.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I’m still convinced Sully will do his best to turn him into ZAR.

I mean, he seems to try to do that with every player that comes here, so that's not a surprise if it happens.

 

[Michael Farkas]

ZAR was a young player that only Sullivan gave a chance in the league and everyone else is "pulling a Sully?" then, right...?

Anyhow, being comfortable on RW as a LHS and being an NHL RW as a LHS have a chasm between them. If anyone saw my (or any?) video on him, you can see some limitations in the puck skills and deception in traffic and in space. So, playing with the puck constantly exposed into the interior puts a lot of skills on notice. But it also matters in terms of utilization.

As a third wheel, coming late, to just purely shoot (and possibly retrieve)...fine. He can probably handle that. Most players with a shot can. I think it's a little limiting to do that right off the bat October 11th or whatever. I think that's not the best for his development, personally.

There's also other aspects to consider. Rick Nash in his later days - and he doesn't get enough credit for it - moved to the other wing at points because he was paired with Chris Kreider...very much a straight-ahead, downhill player. Jerome Bettis in a way. Early Steelers/Late Rams Bettis...not "can you believe the Super Bowl is in Detroit and he's from Detroit!?!?!" Bettis. So, Nash actually morphed into a NZ playmaker. He drew players to him in the NZ, and then bought time and space to dish to Kreider to create speed differential plays/dekes. It was quite an adaptation.

Ideally, you want both and more from a top prospect. But it really depends on what the roster has and needs and more importantly where McGroarty is. He didn't look like an NHL player to me at last check, but summers can change guys at this age.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Rust has said the same thing and has played both wings in the NHL.
He's appreciably better on the right

Yeah I think people underestimate the difficulty that comes from playing on your off-wing. It has issues both receiving passes, being able to play at a high pace and effectively exiting the zone.

There's a reason most guys who work great on their off-wing are super skilled snipers or playmakers.

 

[eXile3]

I'm not overly worried about that, remember ZAR actually got a lot of top-9 and top-6 looks when he first broke out into the NHL.

He ended up a defense only 4th liner because he pretty miserably failed while playing with Malkin and whoever the Penguins 3C was at the time. In ZAR's first 2 years in the NHL, he played about 40% of his ice time with at least one of Kessel or Malkin. I remember ZAR-Malkin-Kessel, ZAR-Sheahan-Kessel and ZAR-Brassard-Kessel as 3 lines he was pretty regularly used on in those years.

That’s true.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Yeah I think people underestimate the difficulty that comes from playing on your off-wing. It has issues both receiving passes, being able to play at a high pace and effectively exiting the zone.

There's a reason most guys who work great on their off-wing are super skilled snipers or playmakers.

A lot of it depends which hand you hold stick with

Dominant hand on top *typically* or *should* make it easier, in theory

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Taylor has outright said, multiple times, to not pay attention to these lines.

You are getting yourself worked up for absolutely no reason.

There will be plenty of opportunity to complain about lines when it matters.

Avatar bet that Sid gets DOC and Rakell to start the year?
Sully has shown time and time again that Sid is the priority and Malkin gets the scraps. When will people finally believe what Sullivan has show repeatedly?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Crosby has been consistently "stuck" with unfinished, young, and incomplete talents...Guentzel, Sheary, DOC, Gibbons, Dupuis, etc. because he's best equipped to help them grow (or is the best player to reject them).

Malkin typically is given more well-rounded, NHL players. He has shown a propensity for ignoring players that he doesn't like (Eric Tangradi and what's his face) anyhow. But Malkin generally/mostly gets the NHL talents, the more complete NHL talents.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Crosby has been consistently "stuck" with unfinished, young, and incomplete talents...Guentzel, Sheary, DOC, Gibbons, Dupuis, etc. because he's best equipped to help them grow (or is the best player to reject them).

Malkin typically is given more well-rounded, NHL players. He has shown a propensity for ignoring players that he doesn't like (Eric Tangradi and what's his face) anyhow. But Malkin generally/mostly gets the NHL talents, the more complete NHL talents.

I’d have to look but this really hasn’t been the case the last few years off the top of my head. Sid has gotten the best LW (Jake) and the best RW (Rust) at every opportunity.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I’d have to look but this really hasn’t been the case the last few years off the top of my head. Sid has gotten the best LW (Jake) and the best RW (Rust) at every opportunity.

Sure. But that's the exception of having a bad roster and bad pipeline. Guentzel is, in part, a Crosby creation. To the victor go the spoils, so to speak. Rust, to a degree too, who is more of a second line talent anyhow. But yeah, to concede, if we only have three wingers on the team worth a damn...and Crosby established himself with the best one quite clearly. Yeah, Malkin gets Kasperi Kapanen and Danton Heinen. Fair enough.

But I mean, even look at this discussion...it's all "McGroarty with Crosby" - the guy who has zero pro games goes right to Crosby. That's not a positive. That's a challenge that Malkin generally isn't equipped to handle.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Crosby has been consistently "stuck" with unfinished, young, and incomplete talents...Guentzel, Sheary, DOC, Gibbons, Dupuis, etc. because he's best equipped to help them grow (or is the best player to reject them).

Malkin typically is given more well-rounded, NHL players. He has shown a propensity for ignoring players that he doesn't like (Eric Tangradi and what's his face) anyhow. But Malkin generally/mostly gets the NHL talents, the more complete NHL talents.

Sheary, Tangradi and Gibbons were a long time ago.

This has been occuring since 2020. Hell, the best line in hockey (Malkin/Rust/Jake) was dismantled immediately when Sid came back from injury.

So I'm not buying this theory at all. Your take would have held water with "early Sullivan" but he's been pretty transparent that Sid gets the top winger talent.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Sure. But that's the exception of having a bad roster and bad pipeline. Guentzel is, in part, a Crosby creation. To the victor go the spoils, so to speak. Rust, to a degree too, who is more of a second line talent anyhow. But yeah, to concede, if we only have three wingers on the team worth a damn...and Crosby established himself with the best one quite clearly. Yeah, Malkin gets Kasperi Kapanen and Danton Heinen. Fair enough.

But I mean, even look at this discussion...it's all "McGroarty with Crosby" - the guy who has zero pro games goes right to Crosby. That's not a positive. That's a challenge that Malkin generally isn't equipped to handle.

Yeah if you go on NST and look at last 3 seasons, Malkin’s most common linemate is Rakell and Geno STILL has more 5v5 TOI away from Rakell.

Zucker his only “staple” but that wasn’t really the case due to his injuries.

Only 188 min with Jake vs 2,130 min without.

Revolving door of the leftovers for Geno.

You’re over analyzing the bolded hard IMO. Most people are penciling in McG there because of the chemistry Bunting showed with Malkin down the stretch and the other option is an undrafted winger with a career high of 33 points. Which is hopeful to think McG would be any better, but understandable why it’s been discussed… that is the top 6 spot that is up for grabs, and that is the position McGroarty plays.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I think this discussion - which I'll just concede any point because I don't really want it, with all due respect - will become interesting if/when the roster has more than two wingers that I'd trust to boil an egg haha

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I think this discussion - which I'll just concede any point because I don't really want it, with all due respect - will become interesting if/when the roster has more than two wingers that I'd trust to boil an egg haha

That’s a cop out though. The point is that we’d be hoping (more like coping lol) that McG could slide in with Geno had it been Crosby that Bunting fit with.

It’s not really that Crosby gets young unproven wingers.

 

[pistolpete11]

Lol saving this comment for later

Hope you're right.

It'd be a lot easier to just laugh off if it wasn't just so believably Sullivan.

 

[Pancakes]

The Pens have 7 preseason games. Of those, the final two are games where typically teams lock in their final lineups and use them as prep for game 1.

So that leaves...what? Like 2-3 games for McGroarty to show whether he belongs or not? He's not going to play in all of the other five games. Maybe he would get into one of the final two games if he has played well to that point and they're still deciding on him.

Unless the Pens are planning to throw caution to the wind and start him on the big club no matter what it seems like there's just not much time for McGroarty to show he belongs.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

That’s a cop out though. The point is that we’d be hoping (more like coping lol) that McG could slide in with Geno had it been Crosby that Bunting fit with.

It’s not really that Crosby gets young unproven wingers.

And as we have both shown that when there are more than 2 wingers worth a damn, Crosby has ALWAYS gotten the best available. To me this isn't really even debatable. Early on, yup Sully gave Sid a 3rd wheel/inexperienced guy, but Sid always had a vet next to him. To whit- see Horny/Sid/Sheary.

Past 5 years Sully has been consistent with who rides shotgun with Sid and that's the cream of the crop. Malkin is expected to make a 5 course meal with rancid meat and rotten veggies

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Guentzel never played better hockey than when he was with Malkin. That is a hill I will die on.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Guentzel never played better hockey than when he was with Malkin. That is a hill I will die on.

You've got a ton of people on this hill with you.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Guentzel never played better hockey than when he was with Malkin. That is a hill I will die on.

That hill is only 17 games high.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

That hill is only 17 games high.

BOY I WONDER WHY?

 

[Freeptop]

According to Taylor, some line combos (split into two teams, not sure which set of players is with which)....in other words, Sullivan dreamed up a line combo that really f**ks Geno…what a surprise lol…also says for every drill Geno has been with Hayes lol

Drew O'Connor-Sidney Crosby-Bryan Rust
Anthony Beauvillier-Evgeni Malkin-Kevin Hayes
Michael Bunting-Lars Eller-Rickard Rakell
Jesse Puljujarvi-Noel Acciari-Valtteri Puustinen

Also according to Taylor Haase, none of Sullivan or his assistant coaches have been present, either... but Jeff Carter has been subbing in as a "coach".

I put a pretty good chance at this just being Carter messing with Geno during these unofficial, informal skates.

Training camp doesn't actually start until the 18th. If Malkin is still skating with those two when camp actually starts, fine, let loose. But at this time, the coaches aren't even involved yet.

 

[mephisto1812]

Bylsma says you’re wrong.

This will never not upset me to an unhealthy level. HOF winger... let's just throw him on the other side.... it will be fine.