Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: Dull days of August... Oooo! A trade!

[KrisLetAngry]

I wish we had a 21 year old player worth giving a 7 year contract.

Pens superstar prospect Sam Poulin is older than Beniers.

Poulin is going to be #10 or #11 for our prospect vote.

Yes some of us were high on him starting in the NHL as a bottom 6 forward. I don't think many of us had dreams of him being a superstar though. Atleast I did not.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I still claim that a narrative by some that "Sully plays young players, look at 2016 and 2017!" is misleading.

He only played those young players bc he was familiar with them being in WBS. The further Sully was removed/time passed from his time in WBS, he's been loathe to play kids from there.

Instead of continuing to tap the well that brought him success and be different than the other coaches, he became just like them and lost his edge.

I recently read that mailbag by dipshit Yohe and a fan asked about youth and he still defends Sullivan not playing any because he felt Sullivan probably feels none were good enough. Never touches on Puustinen being good and shafted, still protecting their boy.

Let me be clear. Me even giving Sullivan credit for youth in the first two cups is mostly to shut up some Sully fans here that keep acting like he was a youth first coach when it really wasn't the case. Like you I believe he had his guys and then when they all became regulars or left, he doubled down on his guys being veterans only.

In conclusion - f*** Mike Sullivan and Josh Yohe can go eat a bag of shit.

Poulin is going to be #10 or #11 for our prospect vote.

Yes some of us were high on him starting in the NHL as a bottom 6 forward. I don't think many of us had dreams of him being a superstar though. Atleast I did not.

I wonder if he was given the same rope Doc was, would we see more out of Poulin? Instead of him being used like a 4th line grinder.

Same for Hallander. To me at least in Hallander's case as a left winger, he has skill and upside but Sullivan essentially used him like another Gruden or Archibald. Like, a real shocker here, he really didn't understand who these players were and what they could bring to the roster.

Puustinen's usage to me is a telltale sign that even when he does have a good prospect that is capable of top 6 minutes, he'd rather use anyone else - literally tried White and Harkins instead which is just bizarre. Also comical because he felt the compliment of their speed and 2way game is what Malkin needed yet didn't seem bothered by the insane amount of goals the top line bled where they barely balanced out for as many scored for as many allowed and kept Rakell off the top line that fixed that.

 

[Pens1566]

This year is the year.

Just have to grind some bitches down and get to our game.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I wonder if he was given the same rope Doc was, would we see more out of Poulin? Instead of him being used like a 4th line grinder.

I'm a huge Poulin backer. The only thing holding him back is his actual availability. He was hurt multiple times last year.

Same for Hallander. To me at least in Hallander's case as a left winger, he has skill and upside but Sullivan essentially used him like another Gruden or Archibald. Like, a real shocker here, he really didn't understand who these players were and what they could bring to the roster.

Hallander played three total games in the NHL before he took his puck and went home. No one with the Pens deserves blame for a 22-year-old former second round pick basically quitting.

Puustinen's usage to me is a telltale sign that even when he does have a good prospect that is capable of top 6 minutes, he'd rather use anyone else - literally tried White and Harkins instead which is just bizarre. Also comical because he felt the compliment of their speed and 2way game is what Malkin needed yet didn't seem bothered by the insane amount of goals the top line bled where they barely balanced out for as many scored for as many allowed and kept Rakell off the top line that fixed that.

Serious question - is Puustinen a good prospect? Has anyone been a legitimately good prospect for the Pens the last couple of years? Or are they simply the best of what the Pens have?

To my knowledge, Puustinen was never ranked on any prospect watch lists.

I think two things can be equally true - Sullivan has shown a reticence to use young players, preferring safer, defense-first players over the last few years. And the Pens haven't exactly given him much to work with in terms of young, dynamic forwards worth playing in the top six.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I really want to like Puus but he seems a bit like a Tomas Surovy 2.0 to me.

I think Sullivan would bumblef*** things regardless when it comes to player development. He's just too lazy and set in his ways at this point to put the work in required to bring along young players IMO and tends towards safe and predictable anyway... which has "overpriced FA bottom sixers" written all over it. I'm sure it's a huge coincidence we've seen that every year/offseason.

But I can't help but agree that besides all that the Penguins don't have much in the way of legitimate young talent. However I still feel they could have easily worked in more famrhands into bottom six roles over the years and saved themselves some cap/hassle and maybe even developed a player or two while they were at it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm not going to rehash the same arguments about Sullivan again, but one thing I'll say is that saying Puustinen didn't get a chance with Malkin while White and Harkins did is factually incorrect.

Harkins-Malkin TOI: 14:46, 0 games together as a line
White-Malkin TOI: 26:49, 3 games together as a line (1/22, 1/26 and 1/27)
Puustinen-Malkin TOI: 186:36, 16 games together as a line (12/8, 12/12, 12/13, 12/16, 12/18, 12/21, 2/22, 2/25, 2/26, 2/29, 3/2, 3/3, 3/5, 3/7, 3/9 and 3/10).

Hell, literally a third of Puustinen's games in the NHL last year were him playing with Malkin. 10% of his 5v5 ice time was with Crosby, 35% of his 5v5 ice time was him with Malkin and 55% of his 5v5 ice time was with Eller.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

In least shocking news ever; David Quinn was added to the 4 Nations coaching staff.

 

[SEALBound]

I recently read that mailbag by dipshit Yohe and a fan asked about youth and he still defends Sullivan not playing any because he felt Sullivan probably feels none were good enough. Never touches on Puustinen being good and shafted, still protecting their boy.

Let me be clear. Me even giving Sullivan credit for youth in the first two cups is mostly to shut up some Sully fans here that keep acting like he was a youth first coach when it really wasn't the case. Like you I believe he had his guys and then when they all became regulars or left, he doubled down on his guys being veterans only.

In conclusion - f*** Mike Sullivan and Josh Yohe can go eat a bag of shit.

Hmmm, your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

I wonder if he was given the same rope Doc was, would we see more out of Poulin? Instead of him being used like a 4th line grinder.

Same for Hallander. To me at least in Hallander's case as a left winger, he has skill and upside but Sullivan essentially used him like another Gruden or Archibald. Like, a real shocker here, he really didn't understand who these players were and what they could bring to the roster.

Puustinen's usage to me is a telltale sign that even when he does have a good prospect that is capable of top 6 minutes, he'd rather use anyone else - literally tried White and Harkins instead which is just bizarre. Also comical because he felt the compliment of their speed and 2way game is what Malkin needed yet didn't seem bothered by the insane amount of goals the top line bled where they barely balanced out for as many scored for as many allowed and kept Rakell off the top line that fixed that.

Puustinen is tough because, while he did get a fair bit of playing time there weren't any points in the season where I was like "yes! This kid is gonna make it"

I get the same feeling from him, as I did guys like Boychuk, Gibbons, Simon, etc. Simon 2.0 is a very, very realistic NHL career path for Puustinen based on what we've seen. I don't hate his use of Puustinen as much as others. I am much more upset about things like the overuse of a guy like Harkins.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

It is true we have not had much in the way of young talent lately, so those who failed to impress were always going to fail because when you are not the most talented youngster, you need opportunity. Sullivan has not been good at providing these guys that opportunity.

BUT, our prospect pool is greatly improved from what it was even a year ago. There can no longer be excuses like, "well, we don't have the prospects to promote, so that is why middling player X is on the roster."

If those middling players stick, it will be by organizational choice. And we know they will stick if Sullivan has his say. I hope not, but Puustinen could end up like P.O. Joseph (the winger version). Joseph is still 25 years old (somehow), but we preferred to give middling talent like Grzelcyk, Aho and Shea a chance to win that roster spot. And we simply gave up on Joseph. Yeah, he probably ends up not being much, especially since his roster chances were probably better in Pittsburgh than they are in St. Louis. But losing that asset is still dumb, considering what we did to replace him. In Puustinen's case, the arrivals of Beauvillier and Glass, plus the return to health of Acciari and presence of Puljujarvi, could really hurt his chances of making the team this year. Poulin? His fate is sealed in my opinion. Hayes, Lizotte and Eller still being here makes Poulin a long shot at best. In fact, he may have already been surpassed by Ponomarev and Yager, too. Broz is close, as well.

The bottom line is, Dubas will not be given the benefit of the doubt anymore if we don't actually create any room in order to get younger, which is his stated goal. And it probably won't happen with the guys who have already tried to get Sullivan's attention in the past, and failed like Poulin and Puustinen. Now, I am focused on how we treat the top prospects in the organization: Yager, Blomqvist, Pickering, Koivunen, Ponomarev and the recent draftees down the road.

Those other young guys are stuck in this organization, and their fate will likely be decided similarly to what happened to Joseph.

I have a feeling this could end up being the most frustrating training camp of them all, which is saying something with this team.

 

[Pancakes]

Our prospect pool is improved but it's still chock full of guys that project as bottom sixers. There's going to be endless bitching in the threads this year about how Sullivan is playing *insert stupid veteran grinder* instead of *prospect that represents the same thing but is 24 instead of 32* and like I agree with that but it is ultimately pissing in the wind either way since none of those prospects are gonna change anything about our future lol. Like if Sully blocks the next Teddy Blueger does it really frickin matter?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Our prospect pool is improved but it's still chock full of guys that project as bottom sixers. There's going to be endless bitching in the threads this year about how Sullivan is playing *insert stupid veteran grinder* instead of *prospect that represents the same thing but is 24 instead of 32* and like I agree with that but it is ultimately pissing in the wind either way since none of those prospects are gonna change anything about our future lol. Like if Sully blocks the next Teddy Blueger does it really frickin matter?

Yes and no.

Even if the whole lot is bottom sixers... I'd way rather simply draft and develop the next Brock McGinn or whatever rather than pay the actual Brock McGinn like 3M in FA or Acciari or Eller or Beauvillier or... etc. Someone said it better than me a while ago... if you can't draft and develop your own McGinns then you should just hang up your spurs and try your luck at like used car sales or something.

Then again I guess at this point what's the use in worrying about saving cap space?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Hmmm, your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Puustinen is tough because, while he did get a fair bit of playing time there weren't any points in the season where I was like "yes! This kid is gonna make it"

I get the same feeling from him, as I did guys like Boychuk, Gibbons, Simon, etc. Simon 2.0 is a very, very realistic NHL career path for Puustinen based on what we've seen. I don't hate his use of Puustinen as much as others. I am much more upset about things like the overuse of a guy like Harkins.

Puustinen was #4 on the team at 5v5 p/p60. He needs to play 82 games and get 14-15 mins a night if his scoring stays close to this. Secondary scoring and improved finishing is a primary need on the team, and has been for 3 years now.
Refusing to address/ignoring it resulted in marginal b2b playoff misses.

He also should be on PP1 left wall if Rust/Raks suck there. He was very good on the PP last year, and deserves another look. Sullivan needs to make fewer decisions based on AAVs and game counts in the league, and should try employing a performance-based system, old school style.
Otherwise golfing in mid-April is a .

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Sullivan tried plenty of low cap, extremely marginal players on PP1 last season. They didn't merit it at all but he def wasn't making decisions based on seniority and AAV. Two of his most veteran and richest players toiled on PP2 much of the season, after all.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

He also should be on PP1 left wall if Rust/Raks suck there. He was very good on the PP last year, and deserves another look. Sullivan needs to make fewer decisions based on AAVs and game counts in the league, and should try employing a performance-based system, old school style.
Otherwise golfing in mid-April is a .

I mean Puus on PP1 should be a no brainer. It was almost comical that he looked like a fish out of water (and I don't mean in a bad way). Here are 5 guys and 4 of them are standing still while Puus is in the corner, behind the net and skating his ass off trying to retrieve the puck and the rest of his crew is standing around giving cursory efforts and shoulder shrugs as the other team gets possession.

 

[Pancakes]

Yes and no.

Even if the whole lot is bottom sixers... I'd way rather simply draft and develop the next Brock McGinn or whatever rather than pay the actual Brock McGinn like 3M in FA or Acciari or Eller or Beauvillier or... etc. Someone said it better than me a while ago... if you can't draft and develop your own McGinns then you should just hang up your spurs and try your luck at like used car sales or something.

Then again I guess at this point what's the use in worrying about saving cap space?

True saving cap space would be significant if we were still trying to compete.

It seems we aren't though so...yeah.

 

[SEALBound]

Puustinen was #4 on the team at 5v5 p/p60. He needs to play 82 games and get 14-15 mins a night if his scoring stays close to this. Secondary scoring and improved finishing is a primary need on the team, and has been for 3 years now.
Refusing to address/ignoring it resulted in marginal b2b playoff misses.

He also should be on PP1 left wall if Rust/Raks suck there. He was very good on the PP last year, and deserves another look. Sullivan needs to make fewer decisions based on AAVs and game counts in the league, and should try employing a performance-based system, old school style.
Otherwise golfing in mid-April is a .

I mean, I'm all for giving him the chance and I would be over the moon if it developed into a productive year.

I don't have anything against him, I just feel he's more in the Zohorna, Simon, Scott Wilson, etc group as opposed to the Guentzel, Sheary, Rust group. I hope I'm eating these words come Dec/Jan though.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't want to put down Puustinen because I think he's a useful bottom-6 guy right now, as evidence with his production from last year. However, Puustinen doesn't have any clearly notable traits that make you think he'll stick in the NHL for long. I think he's another guy in that Simon and Wilson vibe, in that he'll give you short term bottom-6 effectiveness but will likely wash out of the league within 2-3 years. Both Simon and Wilson washed out when they were about 26, and Puustinen himself is 25 right now.

If I had to make a bet on how Puustinen's career goes, I bet he puts up like 25-30 points a season for either 1 or 2 more years, is a borderline player after that and is out of the NHL by age 28.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't want to put down Puustinen because I think he's a useful bottom-6 guy right now, as evidence with his production from last year. However, Puustinen doesn't have any clearly notable traits that make you think he'll stick in the NHL for long. I think he's another guy in that Simon and Wilson vibe, in that he'll give you short term bottom-6 effectiveness but will likely wash out of the league within 2-3 years. Both Simon and Wilson washed out when they were about 26, and Puustinen himself is 25 right now.

If I had to make a bet on how Puustinen's career goes, I bet he puts up like 25-30 points a season for either 1 or 2 more years, is a borderline player after that and is out of the NHL by age 28.

...but always show you JUST enough at the AHL level to wonder. At least for a little while.

Like I said:

Tomas Surovy Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics of Tomas Surovy, a hockey player from Banska Bystrica, Slovakia born Sep 24 1981 who was active from 2000 to 2019.

www.hockeydb.com

 

[Empoleon8771]

...but always show you JUST enough at the AHL level to wonder. At least for a little while.

Like I said:

Tomas Surovy Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics of Tomas Surovy, a hockey player from Banska Bystrica, Slovakia born Sep 24 1981 who was active from 2000 to 2019.

www.hockeydb.com

Yeah I think Surovy is a terrific comparable to Puustinen and a very likely career path he goes down.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah I think Surovy is a terrific comparable to Puustinen and a very likely career path he goes down.

I was a huge Surovy fan in the day. But Puus, much like him, I just don't think has quite enough facets to his game to survive the NHL nor are the parts of his game that are prominent QUITE good enough to get by just on those abilities, alone. Believe me when I say I hope to be wrong. If he were just a BIT more fleet and his shot a bit more overwhelming... well...

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Cody Glass takes #19,

only confirms he will not revive his career in Pittsburgh and/or this doesn’t end well

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Oh no, he's going to be like Beau Bennett, also glass.

 

[eXile3]

I think Puust can be a 35ish point guy who is young and will be cost effective. I know the FO will probably prefer an older one with a higher cap hit but you take the wins where you can get them.

I saw the Oilers have surpassed us as the leagues oldest team. Hooray for that I suppose.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Hmmm, your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Puustinen is tough because, while he did get a fair bit of playing time there weren't any points in the season where I was like "yes! This kid is gonna make it"

Weird, because even the homer Sullivan PBP wankers were raving about Puustinen's game, but lordy lordy can't impress the Puustinen haters that clearly never cared to see him succeed in any case, there's a lot in our board and it's quite bizarre.

I get the same feeling from him, as I did guys like Boychuk, Gibbons, Simon, etc. Simon 2.0 is a very, very realistic NHL career path for Puustinen based on what we've seen. I don't hate his use of Puustinen as much as others. I am much more upset about things like the overuse of a guy like Harkins.

If you think Simon 2.0 is the realistic NHL path, then you're really just talking out of your f***ing ass, mate. Just admit it and move on.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm a huge Poulin backer. The only thing holding him back is his actual availability. He was hurt multiple times last year.

Hallander played three total games in the NHL before he took his puck and went home. No one with the Pens deserves blame for a 22-year-old former second round pick basically quitting.

Serious question - is Puustinen a good prospect? Has anyone been a legitimately good prospect for the Pens the last couple of years? Or are they simply the best of what the Pens have?

To my knowledge, Puustinen was never ranked on any prospect watch lists.

I think two things can be equally true - Sullivan has shown a reticence to use young players, preferring safer, defense-first players over the last few years. And the Pens haven't exactly given him much to work with in terms of young, dynamic forwards worth playing in the top six.

Odd then, that when DOC is on Sid's line with Rust, that line is an absolute disaster defensively, yet he was given ample minutes with Crosby anyway and produced just barely above Puustinen getting mostly 3rd line minutes and barely any minutes to boot.

I'm not going to rehash the same arguments about Sullivan again, but one thing I'll say is that saying Puustinen didn't get a chance with Malkin while White and Harkins did is factually incorrect.

Harkins-Malkin TOI: 14:46, 0 games together as a line
White-Malkin TOI: 26:49, 3 games together as a line (1/22, 1/26 and 1/27)
Puustinen-Malkin TOI: 186:36, 16 games together as a line (12/8, 12/12, 12/13, 12/16, 12/18, 12/21, 2/22, 2/25, 2/26, 2/29, 3/2, 3/3, 3/5, 3/7, 3/9 and 3/10).

Hell, literally a third of Puustinen's games in the NHL last year were him playing with Malkin. 10% of his 5v5 ice time was with Crosby, 35% of his 5v5 ice time was him with Malkin and 55% of his 5v5 ice time was with Eller.

Right and since you have the breakdown, who was the other winger with Malkin when Puustinen was with Geno? What were the numbers, analytics, etc.