Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

[Pancakes]

After one game (against an AHL team), Zucker revitalized his career as a Penguin.

You're allowed to enjoy good performances y'know

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I believe that improvement over Zucker would be their physical game and size.

I’m with you Gurgle.

The sooner this team gets a top 6 LW to bump Zucker down to L3, the better.

 

[Andy99]

Tampa's playing CBJ right now and Vasi's in net. You'd assume this increases our chances tomorrow.

Except Vasi has given up two goals in 9 shots in the first period…woof…maybe we aren’t better off facing Elliott lol

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Except Vasi has given up two goals in 9 shots in the first period…woof…maybe we aren’t better off facing Elliott lol

I'm pretty surprised Cooper did this. Guess they really wanted their first win.
Or the plan was to play Vasi back to back, which happens sometimes.

 

[Flying Dego]

I'm pretty surprised Cooper did this. Guess they really wanted their first win.
Or the plan was to play Vasi back to back, which happens sometimes.

To be honest we would have a better chance against Vas than Elliot.

We tend to do well against top guys but put in the backup? We'll get people talking about how they may need a look as a starter somewhere.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

@Flying Dego @Andy99

Yeah maybe we do have a better chance against him?

Then again...

 

[Flying Dego]

@Flying Dego @Andy99

View attachment 594109

Yeah maybe we do have a better chance against him?

View attachment 594110

Then again...

Hm but are those Elliot stats while a starter? Big difference now that he's a backup

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'm pretty surprised Cooper did this. Guess they really wanted their first win.
Or the plan was to play Vasi back to back, which happens sometimes.

Tampa lost their opener. Cooper probably didn't want to start the year 0-2 and then face the Pens.

Plus, we make backups look like Vezina candidates so it's probably a smart call for that reason as well.

 

[chethejet]

No question the cap has to be addressed. If I am Hextall, I try like hell to move Brock McGinn with a draft pick for prospects. That gives the Pens approx 2.8 million to allow a couple moves without short cutting anyone. Replace him with DOC and you still have 2 million for cap flexibility. Plus you have 2.75 million the next two years freed up to use.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Looking at the UFA dmen for next year, it would be pretty sweet if the Penguins could sign Orlov to replace Dumoulin. Not a lot of other options for LHD

 

[Jacob]

Yeah there’s no justifying 2.75 for McGinn when Heinen gets 35% as much and produces more, and Archibald, while not a replacement, brings almost as much for 30%. I don’t think he’s untradable but without taking a contract back will be tough.

The 4th line situation seems like it’ll resolve from within. You keep Blueger and let him go through the wall for his next deal and likely only big pay day of his career.. you squeeze a big year out of him and he walks. Between DOC, Poehling, Poulin and Archibald you’ve got a solid, young and VERY cheap 4th line and a 13th forward. Done.

 

[Pens x]

Somehow, it’s JR’s fault that Hextall signed McGinn.

 

[Tender Rip]

I missed the memo detailing McGinn as a problem because he is more expensive than other fourth liners.
Did anyone expect he’d produce big or any numbers with 4th line minutes and Poehling/Archie?

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

It falls.

I think you have the size / physical element with Sid and Rakell and L2. You can get away with the smaller skilled talent up there. The real issue is they want to role L3 as Heinen - Carter - Kapanen and then McGinn - Blueger - Archibald. Just way too small and weak bottom six. Poehling added in the bottom does a decent job changing that.

I don't want Blueger back. Not popular maybe but he adds nothing, is easily pushed around, and has come up as a big zero in every playoff game he's played. To me he's the biggest remaining piece of those disappointing playoff teams who had too many guys that were small and underwhelming and who came up short in the big games. I like the makeup of the team right now. Players are hungry and feisty.

 

[Freeptop]

I missed the memo detailing McGinn as a problem because he is more expensive than other fourth liners.
Did anyone expect he’d produce big or any numbers with 4th line minutes and Poehling/Archie?

The thing with McGinn is not that he's actually bad. It's just that he takes up a lot of cap space for a fourth liner. In the short term, he's not hurting the team, and in the long term, if he's looking good, that makes it more likely the Pens could trade him to a team that wants to improve their third line. Moving him would allow the Pens to give younger (and cheaper) players a chance to play. But it's not like it would actively hurt the Pens if they couldn't move him, either.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

McGinn can be a solid third liner. For that, his contract is ok. But if he's spending most of his time on the 4th, then yeah, no need to pay that much.

 

[McGroarty2]

McGinn can be a solid third liner. For that, his contract is ok. But if he's spending most of his time on the 4th, then yeah, no need to pay that much.

It's nice to have McGinn/Blueger available to move up to the 3rd line when injuries strike but having both seems like a luxury the Pens cannot afford, unless they are willing to move one of Dumo or Petts.

 

[chethejet]

It is not about McGinn being a bad player. It is about cap space for this year and the next 2 with players that can be cheaper and maybe develop into better players. Now Hextall did a great job and Pens are far better this year. But still a couple moves like extending Carter who is not a able to play the kind of minutes one would want. Not the worst but 2 years was a reach. McGinn was Tanev like and Hextall valued his speed and flexibility to PK, play either wing and bring speed and some grit to the mix. That is still something another team will value.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Ruhwedel should be moved.

That's all.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Yeah there’s no justifying 2.75 for McGinn when Heinen gets 35% as much and produces more, and Archibald, while not a replacement, brings almost as much for 30%. I don’t think he’s untradable but without taking a contract back will be tough.

The 4th line situation seems like it’ll resolve from within. You keep Blueger and let him go through the wall for his next deal and likely only big pay day of his career.. you squeeze a big year out of him and he walks. Between DOC, Poehling, Poulin and Archibald you’ve got a solid, young and VERY cheap 4th line and a 13th forward. Done.

Heinen doesn't PK. McGinn does, and does it better than anyone we have. We clearly need those guys, with what's happening these first 2 games.
3 of our 4 goals against are shorthanded.

No one's gonna match Heinen's output relative to AAV. It's just an outlier contract in this league.

It makes more sense to compare 4th liners to each other, since McGinn gets 28% more D-zone starts than Heinen and is usually attached to one bad winger all the time.

I've seen nothing from Archibald to suggest he can outperform McGinn at 5v5 or on the PK, offensively or defensively. He just hits more, that's it.
McGinn had 10 5v5 goals last year with extremely limited offensive usage. That's as many as Rust in virtually the same number of games.

Not saying the contract is ideal but it's really not that big of an issue.

 

[Gurglesons]

Heinen doesn't PK. McGinn does, and does it better than anyone we have. We clearly need those guys, with what's happening these first 2 games.
3 of our 4 goals against are shorthanded.

No one's gonna match Heinen's output relative to AAV. It's just an outlier contract in this league.

It makes more sense to compare 4th liners to each other, since McGinn gets 28% more D-zone starts than Heinen and is usually attached to one bad winger all the time.

I've seen nothing from Archibald to suggest he can outperform McGinn at 5v5 or on the PK, offensively or defensively. He just hits more, that's it.
McGinn had 10 5v5 goals last year with extremely limited offensive usage. That's as many as Rust in virtually the same number of games.

Not saying the contract is ideal but it's really not that big of an issue.

The bigger issue is both Blueger and McGinn taking up the cap they are. But relatively if we get the performance we expect from Malkin at 2C and Rust at 2RW we should be fine as those deals should be closer to 8 mil then are.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

The bigger issue is both Blueger and McGinn taking up the cap they are.

Spending 5 mil on both is totally fine relative to what they provide for the team. Blue is also a solid PK'er that we missed in games 1 and 2 in that capacity, and he's obviously a better player than Poehling at ES.
Our Center depth has already proven handy with one being out and Carter putting up 3 points in 2 games.

Blue will come in handy later when one (or more) of 87, 77 or 71 go down. I could see him getting like 30 games as 3C, or at least the 4th line will get more minutes than the 3rd line in those games...basically making them the "3rd line".

So how is 2.2 mil a problem? His production relative to usage has always been excellent.

 

[Gurglesons]

Spending 5 mil on both is totally fine relative to what they provide for the team. Blue is also a solid PK'er that we missed in games 1 and 2 in that capacity, and he's obviously a better player than Poehling at ES.
Our Center depth has already proven handy with one being out and Carter putting up 3 points in 2 games.

Blue will come in handy later when one (or more) of 87, 77 or 71 go down. I could see him getting like 30 games as 3C, or at least the 4th line will get more minutes than the 3rd line in those games...basically making them the "3rd line".

So how is 2.2 mil a problem? His production relative to usage has always been excellent.

I don’t like building our cap around what might happen to the players above.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I don’t like building our cap around what might happen to the players above.

In our case it's "will" and "does". They're all 35+. There's gonna be Covid too, which knocks you out for a few games. Carter had it twice last year.
And even if the best case scenario happens and all our old guys play 75+ games, Blue still helps the PK and 4th line enough to be worth 2.2.

If we wanna talk about where we're losing money relative to AAV, there's way better candidates for that.

 

[Gurglesons]

In our case it's "will" and "does". They're all 35+. There's gonna be Covid too, which knocks you out for a few games. Carter had it twice last year.
And even if the best case scenario happens and all our old guys play 75+ games, Blue still helps the PK and 4th line enough to be worth 2.2.

If we wanna talk about where we're losing money relative to AAV, there's way better candidates for that.

I suppose. I’m not really opposed to keeping him, I just find it overpayment.