Post-Game Talk: Pens Ducks Halloween horror show

[canadianguy77]

Even if he’s productive at the AHL level, it’s a slower game there, and you generally can’t go through the training you need to improve speed until the offseason.

He’s 20. At that age, you’re about as fast as you’re going to get as far as top-speed goes. The emphasis on his skating in regards to training should’ve happened many years ago. There isn’t much that can be done about that now. I don’t think his skating was that big of a deal. He’s at least NHL average in that regard.

He reads plays well enough so the intelligence is there. His biggest focus should be on getting stronger without losing anything with his skating. He was getting outmuscled along the walls enough where you could tell he didn't yet have the strength for this league.

 

[Gurglesons]

It wouldn’t be if he isn’t NHL ready, which he didn’t appear to be.

This is the mindset that has resulted in us producing one NHL player from our drafts recently.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

This is the mindset that has resulted in us producing one NHL player from our drafts recently.

Not having enough quality picks to develop the pipeline is what has led to us not producing any recent prospects. You can’t develop a pipeline if you aren’t building one.

He’s 20. At that age, you’re about as fast as you’re going to get as far as top-speed goes. The emphasis on his skating in regards to training should’ve happened many years ago. There isn’t much that can be done about that now. I don’t think his skating was that big of a deal. He’s at least NHL average in that regard.

He reads plays well enough so the intelligence is there. His biggest focus should be on getting stronger without losing anything with his skating. He was getting outmuscled along the walls enough where you could tell he didn't yet have the strength for this league.

He can actually improve his skating. Plenty of players have at his age.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not having enough quality picks to develop the pipeline is what has led to us not producing any recent prospects. You can’t develop a pipeline if you aren’t building one.

You play players in the NHL when you have a core group as good as ours in terms of providing experience.

Keeping McG in the AHL for two years makes absolutely no sense. He’s a top prospect in the league. You leverage the fact he can be with a HHOF center like Malkin or Sid for a few weeks. That will be exponentially more beneficial to his development then traveling on Greyhounds in the A with Emil Bemstrom.

He’s also going to be 21 in March. That basically gives him two years to prove he’s the level of prospect we think he is before bust talk starts entering the talk.

I’d honestly argue dropping McG to the A was more detrimental to his development then keeping him up in 10-12 minutes at the NHL would have been. This isn’t a Yager situation. This is a situation where he left a great situation in the NCAA to prove he was NHL ready. He did it in the pre-season and then our moronic coach cut him in three games where he looked “okay”.

 

[Zbynek]

You play players in the NHL when you have a core group as good as ours in terms of providing experience.

Keeping McG in the AHL for two years makes absolutely no sense. He’s a top prospect in the league. You leverage the fact he can be with a HHOF center like Malkin or Sid for a few weeks. That will be exponentially more beneficial to his development then traveling on Greyhounds in the A with Emil Bemstrom.

He’s also going to be 21 in March. That basically gives him two years to prove he’s the level of prospect we think he is before bust talk starts entering the talk.

I’d honestly argue dropping McG to the A was more detrimental to his development then keeping him up in 10-12 minutes at the NHL would have been. This isn’t a Yager situation. This is a situation where he left a great situation in the NCAA to prove he was NHL ready. He did it in the pre-season and then our moronic coach cut him in three games where he looked “okay”.

It's actually hilarious Dubas made the 1:1 Yager/McG trade for the sole purpose of gaining a few years closer to NHL status, only for Sully to play Rutger 3 games then send him to the AHL.

I have no further analysis to provide here, I just think that's funny.

Let's check back on this post in 4 years when Yager is a 70pt+ center. Then it gets even funnier!

 

[HandshakeLine]

Beginning to think this Sullivan character doesn't know how to develop players.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

He can actually improve his skating. Plenty of players have at his age.

According to @Michael Farkas , McGroarty's skating is wonky because he probably lacks core strength. He could certainly work to improve his core strength, which should help his skating.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

According to @Michael Farkas , McGroarty's skating is wonky because he probably lacks core strength. He could certainly work to improve his core strength, which should help his skating.

Makes sense, because building core helps everything. These are the kinds of things that are most effectively done in the offseason, given how difficult it is to build strength/do weight training during the season.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

You play players in the NHL when you have a core group as good as ours in terms of providing experience.

Keeping McG in the AHL for two years makes absolutely no sense. He’s a top prospect in the league. You leverage the fact he can be with a HHOF center like Malkin or Sid for a few weeks. That will be exponentially more beneficial to his development then traveling on Greyhounds in the A with Emil Bemstrom.

He’s also going to be 21 in March. That basically gives him two years to prove he’s the level of prospect we think he is before bust talk starts entering the talk.

I’d honestly argue dropping McG to the A was more detrimental to his development then keeping him up in 10-12 minutes at the NHL would have been. This isn’t a Yager situation. This is a situation where he left a great situation in the NCAA to prove he was NHL ready. He did it in the pre-season and then our moronic coach cut him in three games where he looked “okay”.

We haven’t had any prospects available from the minors in years. How many players have not been given a chance here, then gone on to succeed elsewhere?

You play young players and promote them when they are capable of growing into a full time role in the NHL. The Pens haven’t had that because they were trading away futures to try to win at the tail end of our stars’ careers. Now we have to build the pipeline up again, and as players become more prepared to make the step to the NHL, they will play. This isn’t a mindset issue, it’s a skillset issue.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Beginning to think this Sullivan character doesn't know how to develop players.

This is an interesting one. Sullivan obviously spent time in the AHL, coaching Rust, Sheary, Kuhnhackl, and I think Dumoulin. Then Sullivan got the NHL gig and those players flourished under him. He’s also been involved in the US development program. So he’s capable of developing players, particularly in the unique situation when he also coached them in the A.

But he hasn’t had a viable pipeline of young players to work with for a long time. So there really isn’t a ton of evidence to say whether or not he’s willing to develop and trust younger players that he hasn’t touched until they hit the NHL And he’s now had Puustinen and St Ivany and a couple others that he’s playing on either a regular or semi-regular basis. These guys aren’t world beaters, and he is playing them.

For this reason and skating issues, I’m not going to so hastily judge McG being sent down to the A. It’s not a big deal to let the guy have a year there before playing in the NHL. Guentzel also spent a little time in the AHL before being called up, and it doesn’t seem like that was such a huge drag on his development.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Ah yes, Bryan "I don't need to do anything now that Coach Friend is my Coach!" Rust, Tom "I'm not in the NHL anymore" Kuhnhackl, and Connor "Nobody will have me on their team" Sheary.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

The game....
+ did I hear "Best save of the game" at least 4 times in the 3rd period? Ned is one of the biggest reasons we won that one.
+ Crosby played well, and was elated after the win..you could see it!
+ the MCR line is pretty good, as expected. We are a 1 line team now!

- the D sucked (again)
- the team defensive coverage sucked (again)
- we team defense sucked (again)

+ we got 2 points (team spirit)
- we got 2 points (Sully probably gets another extension)

As for McG....
Whatever they saw should have already told them he was ready for the NHL, or wasn't. If his skating wasn't up to par, then why did they even trade for him?

I think the expectation Sully has is they have to beat out veterans on DAY ONE! Problem with that approach is you lose on on the category of player that needs NHL time to get over the threshold, as the cost of having a slightly better team in the short term.

 

[BusinessGoose]

I'm going to die on the hill that the best place for any of our young guys, right now, is the AHL.

I'm okay with Blomqvist seeing NHL shots as long as the terrible stats he will end up with don't crush his soul.

I don't want anyone else learning anything about hockey from our current coach

 

[Andy99]

No GDT so I’ll put this here…if there’s one team with nearly as bad defensive structure and goaltending as the Pens, it’s the Habs…let’s hope it continues and thank god that St. Louis’s coaching model is Mike Sullivan lol…

https://x.com/i/web/status/1852723235055419502

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm going to die on the hill that the best place for any of our young guys, right now, is the AHL.

I'm okay with Blomqvist seeing NHL shots as long as the terrible stats he will end up with don't crush his soul.

I don't want anyone else learning anything about hockey from our current coach

I'm fine with McG in the AHL right now, but mostly because I do not think the NHL club has a bench that wants to bother with developing young players at the moment. That's the major thing. But I think pixies has a point that's getting lost here which is that trading for a player and then not using them is probably the worst thing this club can be doing from any standpoint.

 

[Zbynek]

As for McG....
Whatever they saw should have already told them he was ready for the NHL, or wasn't. If his skating wasn't up to par, then why did they even trade for him?

Wish someone would ask Dubas this exact question at the next presser.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's a super cool situation all around. Played really well with Eller and Puljujarvi, figure he'd also do well opposite Puustinen with Eller (who seems great with any of the younger guys he's played with). Screwed McG around for 3 games, all of which he was perfectly fine in imo all things considered. His skating's not great but I think it's less about his skating and more about figuring out the flow and timings of stuff at this level, as he seems to be a smart player. He's not gonna learn that in the AHL imo.

I think the only reason he should be in the AHL is to be kept away from Sullivan, who is already on the record for trying to hammer him into some garbage PKing ZAR clone. Wouldn't mind if he was kept up to learn from and be around guys like Sid and Geno every day, but like people have said, this coach has absolutely zero desire (or ability) to coach younger players. Either they arrive as a finished product or they're absolutely f***ed forever as long as Sullivan's around.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I detest the notion that you should only play in the NHL as a finished product. That you should not be "developing" at the highest level, but rather at any other level. There are probably 75-100 unfinished products in the NHL currently. So, no it would not be the end of the world for Rutger McGroarty to be in the NHL right now. Especially since, you know, that is the reason he was acquired.

Mike Sullivan will be here next year and the year after that, too. So the idea that McGroarty should be in the AHL right now to avoid Sullivan is a funny one. Sad funny, not hahaha funny.

McGroarty-Eller-Puljujarvi had the makings of a really good line. Heck, with the Malkin move to LW that Eller line could have been developed into a serviceable SECOND line this season. So naturally, only the veteran of the group is still in the lineup.

When we analyze this situation thoroughly, it is pretty hard to believe that Dubas is the reason McGroarty is in the AHL right now, and not Sullivan.

 

[Pancakes]

Mcgroarty has one measly point in five games in the Ahl. He wasn't ready for full time nhl duty and only made it at all because Rust was hurt.

Or do you guys think our Ahl coach is also jerking him around? He should be able to score there at least if he's nhl ready, no?

 

[HandshakeLine]

Mcgroarty has one measly point in five games in the Ahl. He wasn't ready for full time nhl duty and only made it at all because Rust was hurt.

Or do you guys think our Ahl coach is also jerking him around? He should be able to score there at least if he's nhl ready, no?

Nah, I think the argument for me is "we should have kept Yager" more than "McG should have stayed up". But either way, I don't think Sullivan is the right coach to have for a young player like McG or Yager who is going to need some patience and guidance.

 

[Gurglesons]

We haven’t had any prospects available from the minors in years. How many players have not been given a chance here, then gone on to succeed elsewhere?

You play young players and promote them when they are capable of growing into a full time role in the NHL. The Pens haven’t had that because they were trading away futures to try to win at the tail end of our stars’ careers. Now we have to build the pipeline up again, and as players become more prepared to make the step to the NHL, they will play. This isn’t a mindset issue, it’s a skillset issue.

I can't wait to hear this in 3-4 years when our young players are still stuck in the AHL for the Mark Jankowski / Noel Acciari / Matt Nieto types.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Again, I despise the idea too that the only players worth having on the roster are ones that play zero-event hockey. Just absolute trash taste in what makes entertaining hockey.

 

[Pancakes]

Nah, I think the argument for me is "we should have kept Yager" more than "McG should have stayed up". But either way, I don't think Sullivan is the right coach to have for a young player like McG or Yager who is going to need some patience and guidance.

We should have kept Yager is also a foolish argument since most people who follow these prospects had McGroarty as the better prospect.

I think people are reading too much into the NHL-readiness (or not) thing. McGroarty was 1 for 1 considered a superior player with a better future to Yager. It's a no brainer to make that trade even if McGroarty is unable to crack the team this year. Winnipeg wouldn't have made this trade if McGroarty wanted to stay.

Obviously it could work out that Yager ends up being the better player. If that happens, Dubas f***ed up. But we won't know that for probably 4-5 years.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Mcgroarty has one measly point in five games in the Ahl. He wasn't ready for full time nhl duty and only made it at all because Rust was hurt.

Or do you guys think our Ahl coach is also jerking him around? He should be able to score there at least if he's nhl ready, no?

If you're genuinely asking; I think his confidence took a notable hit and he's still adjusting to pro play. It's been 5 games. I think he's an asset whose value comes from his addition to a line as opposed to posting gaudy point totals, he's a slot/boards guy not a play driver. I think if point totals were a determining factor, Puljujarvi and Puustinen would get time and opportunity more consistently.

He was fine in his NHL time. This coach just has squirrelbrain when it comes to playing or coaching younger guys. In an interview about McG, the first thing Sullivan said was that he thought learning to PK was paramount to a young guy's ability to stick in this league. He's a dipshit.

McG's not a finished product. He has to learn. I think his skating woes are overblown, and a player like him can use his on ice IQ to offset average skating. But he's gonna have periods where he goes without points, he's gonna go periods where he struggles. He's a mid-1st round pick. Knies, a guy who is kinda like McG, struggled for times and he's played a ton with talents like Marner, Matthews and Nylander. But he's coming into his own a bit this season. /shrug

 

[HandshakeLine]

We should have kept Yager is also a foolish argument since most people who follow these prospects had McGroarty as the better prospect.

I think people are reading too much into the NHL-readiness (or not) thing. McGroarty was 1 for 1 considered a superior player with a better future to Yager. It's a no brainer to make that trade even if McGroarty is unable to crack the team this year. Winnipeg wouldn't have made this trade if McGroarty wanted to stay.

Obviously it could work out that Yager ends up being the better player. If that happens, Dubas f***ed up. But we won't know that for probably 4-5 years.

I dunno, if you're going to get a guy like McG that needs to be y'know, developed, I don't know if this is a good place to do it. WB/S is for sure a place that is a better spot for him to learn than the big club right now, but again, when was the last time we actually succeeded in developing a prospect with warts into something decent?