Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I do think it's questionable why O'Connor has been so untouchable this year while Sullivan was willing to throw Puljujarvi under the bus quickly.

DOC is a homegrown product and they are really biased towards those players. I'm sure they also absolutely feel like DOC is a top-six-in-waiting guy that just has to figure a couple things out and he's the new Rust or whatever. He is none of those things but that's irrelevant.

 

[Darren McCord]

DOC is a homegrown product and they are really biased towards those players. I'm sure they also absolutely feel like DOC is a top-six-in-waiting guy that just has to figure a couple things out and he's the new Rust or whatever. He is none of those things but that's irrelevant.

DOC was home grown in Boston that’s why lol.

Dude has been awful. JP being waived just means Sullivan can’t be question about playing other people over him.

Anyone making other excuses is out to lunch. Wbs doesn’t even play again until Friday. There was no reason for this to happen today. Sullivan just doesn’t want him.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Also, if Puljujarvi had trade value, he wouldn't be on waivers.

 

[Empoleon8771]

DOC is a homegrown product and they are really biased towards those players. I'm sure they also absolutely feel like DOC is a top-six-in-waiting guy that just has to figure a couple things out and he's the new Rust or whatever. He is none of those things but that's irrelevant.

Yeah it has to be something like that. Like I edited in that post, I think it's dumb but I at least understand the logic Sullivan is working with for his "4th line PKers" idea. I understand that Acciari and Nieto are filling a role in Sullivan's eyes that is keeping their roster spot a lot safer, even if their 5v5 play sucks. I get that. But why is O'Connor locked into a top-9 role, and spending a ton of time in their top-6, with how he has produced this year? He has 10 points in 38 games.

If he's a lineup lock because of his PKing like Nieto and Acciari, whatever but play him on L4. Playing him with Crosby and Malkin regularly is completely stupid though, and he shouldn't be on their 3rd line either with how he has played.

This isn't even a point necessarily towards Puljujarvi, it's just that O'Connor's usage this year has been mind boggling. I understand Nieto and Acciari staying in the lineup on L4 far more than O'Connor being locked into a top-9 role.

 

[Ulf5]

DOC was home grown in Boston that’s why lol.

Dude has been awful. JP being waived just means Sullivan can’t be question about playing other people over him.

Anyone making other excuses is out to lunch. Wbs doesn’t even play again until Friday. There was no reason for this to happen today. Sullivan just doesn’t want him.

And if he gets claimed, who gets taken away from wbs' already ailing roster?
Pens play tomorrow and Friday.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

DOC was home grown in Boston that’s why lol.

Dude has been awful. JP being waived just means Sullivan can’t be question about playing other people over him.

Anyone making other excuses is out to lunch. Wbs doesn’t even play again until Friday. There was no reason for this to happen today. Sullivan just doesn’t want him.

I mean I personally think that's pretty obvious, yes.

Sullivan doesn't exactly have an unmarred history of simply pushing guys out that he doesn't wanna deal with for one reason or another.

The odd thing here is that Pulju plays a Sullivan game as far as I can tell. But then of course consistency has never been the go-to bastion of your average NHL head coach.

 

[Darren McCord]

Also, if Puljujarvi had trade value, he wouldn't be on waivers.

None of

Nieto
Acari
Hayes

Have trade value and I would out everyone on waivers lol

 

[DesertedPenguin]

DOC is a homegrown product and they are really biased towards those players. I'm sure they also absolutely feel like DOC is a top-six-in-waiting guy that just has to figure a couple things out and he's the new Rust or whatever. He is none of those things but that's irrelevant.

Could be that DOC scored 16 goals last year while Puljujarvi hasn't hit double digits since his first seasons in the NHL.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Could be that DOC scored 16 goals last year while Puljujarvi hasn't hit double digits since his first seasons in the NHL.

Spin spin spin...

How's DOC doing THIS year? How has his overall progression gone? How has he proven that all of the opportunities he has been granted are worth the team's while? This doesn't even take into consideration utter wastes of roster space like Nieto and why he's still here doing a buncha nothing.

Pulju was also still recovering from some pretty serious surgery last year, ya know.

Frankly I don't really care that much but it's pretty obvious to anyone who doesn't harbor some pretty heavy bias what's going on here and it isn't "WB/S needs reinforcements." C'mon... you guys are better/smarter than that.

 

[Darren McCord]

Could be that DOC scored 16 goals last year while Puljujarvi hasn't hit double digits since his first seasons in the NHL.

More like this team holds no player accountable if they like them and are from ncaa. DOC could go 82 more games without a goal and still get time.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

None of

Nieto
Acari
Hayes

Have trade value and I would out everyone on waivers lol

Sure, except you need to have guys ready to replace them.

All of the best players in WBS are better served playing significant minutes in the AHL than the bare minimum in the NHL.

And the fringe guys in the AHL are just the ones you mentioned in a different jersey.

 

[wheelz87]

They aren't. Trying to argue that WBS is better off without having 2 good AHL players is silly. It's like arguing the Penguins are better off if Rust and Rakell got hurt but still managed to win a game after it.



I do think it's questionable why O'Connor has been so untouchable this year while Sullivan was willing to throw Puljujarvi under the bus quickly.

Nieto and Acciari, like okay I can get the "4th line PK" role Sullivan is going for. It's stupid, but I understand it. But O'Connor is actually playing in scoring line roles but isn't producing. The only justification is the PK and playing a guy regularly with Malkin just because he PKs is completely stupid.

First off, I'm realistic with this team. This is not 2016 anymore. I still root for hell for us to make the playoffs, but I realize we are a 7-10 team in the East. If we get some luck closer to 7-8, if not 9-10. To your bolded.. my issue with it is this isn't Cullen/Hagelin/Fehr/(shit not even Kuhnhackl) taking up spots. Acciari and Nieto have to legit be two of the worst regulars in the NHL. Cullen/Hagelin.. first off they were good players but secondly they were elite PKers. Acciar/Nieto are elite in nothing whatsoever. The fact the PK is 90% over the last 10 games or whatever is beyond a mirage. Do we not realize putting them out there in the final 2 minutes protecting a one goal lead is a death sentence? Woo it worked against the Isles. Not gonna work against the Devs/Caps/Canes/ect.

And I know, Pulu wasn't really a PKer..make him one. I just want the 12 best forwards on the ice. And Pulu was easily that this year.

 

[Ryder71]

Why are so many here worried about curtain jerkers on a team going nowhere? Does it really matter? Seriously?

 

[DesertedPenguin]

And if he gets claimed, who gets taken away from wbs' already ailing roster?
Pens play tomorrow and Friday.

Pens are carrying 14 forwards right now.

If anything, they could be looking to move out Puljujarvi to make space for a defenseman acquisition considering Letang, Pettersson, and Pickering all hurt.

 

[Darren McCord]

Sure, except you need to have guys ready to replace them.

All of the best players in WBS are better served playing significant minutes in the AHL than the bare minimum in the NHL.

And the fringe guys in the AHL are just the ones you mentioned in a different jersey.

You do JP lol who is better than all of them.

The point is there was no reason not to bench someone like DOC for a game and play JP. Other coaches have the actually brains to bench anyone Sullivan only a few he doesn’t like.

 

[Ryder71]

First off, I'm realistic with this team. This is not 2016 anymore. I still root for hell for us to make the playoffs, but I realize we are a 7-10 team in the East. If we get some luck closer to 7-8, if not 9-10. To your bolded.. my issue with it is this isn't Cullen/Hagelin/Fehr/(shit not even Kuhnhackl) taking up spots. Acciari and Nieto have to legit be two of the worst regulars in the NHL. Cullen/Hagelin.. first off they were good players but secondly they were elite PKers. Acciar/Nieto are elite in nothing whatsoever. The fact the PK is 90% over the last 10 games or whatever is beyond a mirage. Do we not realize putting them out there in the final 2 minutes protecting a one goal lead is a death sentence? Woo it worked against the Isles. Not gonna work against the Devs/Caps/Canes/ect.

And I know, Pulu wasn't really a PKer..make him one. I just want the 12 best forwards on the ice. And Pulu was easily that this year.

So, you're still holding out hope for this team to make the playoffs? For the long term viability of this team we should want the opposite. Being in the mushy middle helps no one. Well, unless you want the core to pad their stats.

 

[pistolpete11]

The issue is that Kreider's drop has been so massive that you can't just chalk it up due to the team. Like I said, the dude has 3 5v5 points in 31 games this year.

Nor can it be chalked up to being 33. Like I said, that kind of drop doesn't just happen. There are reasons for it. Something being rotten in New York is pretty undeniable and clearly playing a factor. What else might be going on, I don't really know because I don't follow the Rangers like that. Maybe he's hurt. Maybe he's feuding with Lavy. Maybe he's pouting because of the losing and trading away players. Maybe it's some bad luck. Maybe his dog died. I don't know. But if the analysis is just "L.O.L. he has 3 5v5 points this year", then there's not a conversation to be had here.

Something else to consider, much like Kunitz actually, Kreider is a career 55 point / 82 game player. He put up 75 points last year because he had the highest oiSH% of his career, had his 3rd highest personal shooting percentage (2nd if you only count full-ish seasons), and about a minute and half more ice time per game. So some regression to the mean could be expected, but the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction with shooting percentage 2.2% lower than his career average, his oiSH% the 3rd lowest of his career (in full-ish seasons), and his ice time back closer to his career average. Unless he's hurt, I'd bet on a progression to the mean at some point.

Beyond that, I think Kreider fits stylistically what the Pens need more of up front, i.e. size, physicality, defensive awareness, and finish. For all of those reasons, I think he'd be great with Malkin who is still creating, but not finishing like he used to.

Is it a 'risk'? I guess, but we're talking about getting him pretty cheap so the only downside is you wasted a 2nd pick or whatever and have a bad contract for a couple of seasons that probably aren't going to matter anyway. Like I said in my initial post, if you know he's hurt, I'd pass because because that changes the calculus on him rebounding and just how bad of a contract it could be. Otherwise, I think it'd be a risk worth taking.

But I can't imagine the Rangers trading one of their long time, homegrown players to one of their divisional rivals, so this was all probably a waste of time.

 

[Ryder71]

Pens are carrying 14 forwards right now.

If anything, they could be looking to move out Puljujarvi to make space for a defenseman acquisition considering Letang, Pettersson, and Pickering all hurt.

Petts should be back this week.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I like Puljujarvi, I've been barking about him being a healthy scratch for weeks. I don't think this really matters much though. It's more about the mindset of the decision makers within the org than anything tbh.

Also, of course Puljujarvi has no value. You have to play guys to build value.

 

[Ulf5]

Petts should be back this week.

Already back at practice, think I read he could've played if he had to. But don't hold me to that.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Also isn't this another piece of evidence that the coach and GM are utterly full of shit or at least very confused?

The idea of Hayes, Glass etc. was to collect assets and then build their value enough to increase your draft capital even more by flipping them down the line, yes?
Pulju seems to me about as close a guarantee of a like 3rd rounder at the TDL as one can get... provided he is played.

Stop letting these dorks sell you on this bullshit "rebuild."

 

[IcedCapp]

Also isn't this another piece of evidence that the coach and GM are utterly full of shit or at least very confused?

The idea of Hayes, Glass etc. was to collect assets and then build their value enough to increase your draft capital even more by flipping them down the line, yes?
Pulju seems to me about as close a guarantee of a like 3rd rounder at the TDL as one can get... provided he is played.

Stop letting these dorks sell you on this bullshit "rebuild."

Well, you’ll know in 24 hours. If he goes unclaimed, he didn’t have much value. If he’s claimed, we’ll never know if he had any trade value, but there will be nothing from stopping the internet from inventing random scenarios where he was worth a ton.

Edit: I don’t care if it’s a rebuild or whatever, I’d still play JP over at least 3 dudes on the roster right now. Maybe as many as 5 if we could play him on the blue line for shits and giggles. Maybe 6 if he’s willing to play in the net every few days.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Also isn't this another piece of evidence that the coach and GM are utterly full of shit or at least very confused?

The idea of Hayes, Glass etc. was to collect assets and then build their value enough to increase your draft capital even more by flipping them down the line, yes?
Pulju seems to me about as close a guarantee of a like 3rd rounder at the TDL as one can get... provided he is played.

Stop letting these dorks sell you on this bullshit "rebuild."

The Pens already got their return on Hayes when they got the picks from the Blues to take on Hayes' contract. You're not recouping any more value from him.

Glass was acquired as a younger piece to rehab and use moving forward.

The potential low level tradable pieces at forward beyond are Nieto, Acciari, and DOC.

If Puljujarvi had trade value, he wouldn't be on waivers.

Whether Dubas' plan will work is open for debate, and his trade history can certainly be criticized. But he doesn't give away assets. If he thought he could get a pick for Puljujarvi now or at the deadline, he wouldn't risk losing him on waivers.

And to be clear, I'd have Puljujarvi in the lineup right now. I don't think he'd make much difference other than lower the collective age of the lineup, but I'd play him nonetheless.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Well, you’ll know in 24 hours. If he goes unclaimed, he didn’t have much value. If he’s claimed, we’ll never know if he had any trade value, but there will be nothing from stopping the internet from inventing random scenarios where he was worth a ton.

I just don't think he was waiver-fodder. Still fairly young... league minimum deal... former top pick... by all accounts was playing well with the icetime given to him... big guy... can hold down a bottom six role with few issues... possibly more to tease out, there.

I just don't agree that him going unclaimed means he's worthless. I'm saying that there was an easy avenue open to play him, build him up a little bit and then sniff around for a deal. Or hell keep the guy if he's playing well in the bottom six considering the team seems to bend over backwards every single offseason to go sign more of those guys for way-too-much money.

Like I said in the grand scheme who cares. It was already said earlier but this team is hardly a bottom six piece away. I even basically laughed when they brought him in. But I guess I get a little irritated when you bother to bring in a player, they actually look like maybe there is some meat on that bone and they just... ghost the whole situation. What was the point?

I would trust the coaching staff, pro scouts and GM on their assessment of the player and say "oh well they know something we don't" but yeah... at this point no sale, there.

 

[pistolpete11]

Also isn't this another piece of evidence that the coach and GM are utterly full of shit or at least very confused?

The idea of Hayes, Glass etc. was to collect assets and then build their value enough to increase your draft capital even more by flipping them down the line, yes?
Pulju seems to me about as close a guarantee of a like 3rd rounder at the TDL as one can get... provided he is played.

Stop letting these dorks sell you on this bullshit "rebuild."

To be fair, I think the "we'll rebuild their value and then flip them for more picks!!1" is HFBPens hivemind. Certainly with Hayes they had to realize there was a real chance they'd be stuck with him. Guys like Glass, I think they'd be looking to resign if he built up his value.