Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[Randy Butternubs]

Would you rather have Kreider or Zucker?

 

[Ulf5]

I'd take Kreider if the Rangers pay.

Yeah what he said. Othmann and Kreider for Jarry and DOC.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Why not?

That's a silly response. He's the coach, if he can block other guys he can most certainly block a 20 yr old defensemen.

Sullivan was a forward. He has a definite "type" of forward preference that seems cryptically and oddly familiar to how he used to play the game. There is no rhyme or reason to his goaltending and defense lineup decisions. But there definitely seems to be a pattern with the forwards.

Furthermore, David Quinn is a former defenseman and also a former HC so he might have some say in who plays and who sits along the blueline. Quinn is probably more responsible for Pickering's quick rise than Sullivan. He also seems to be doing a good job of resurrecting Karlsson, which to be honest is the only reason his hiring made any sense to begin with.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Would you rather have Kreider or Zucker?

No, thank you.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

There was a rumor I read online last week that made no sense whatsoever (for NYR) involving Kreider to the Penguins. It was Kreider to Pit for Graves, Grz and a 2nd rounder in 2027 (of which we own two currently).

I don't see that happening, but that is the type of deal we could use. We CAN give up a future asset if we have multiple picks in a round for a specific year IF it means getting out of one of the contracts we are currently saddled with: Hayes, Graves, Jarry.

Kreider is not ideal because Sullivan would likely be forced to break up the first line. Bunting-Malkin-Kreider probably does not work for two reasons: Bunting is a Kreider lite type and they have similar roles on a line, and also Kreider has been tried unsuccessfully at right wing by the Rangers, and is one of the big reasons why their lineup has failed to get over the hump (too many LWs, not enough RWs).

And if Sullivan breaks up the top line, you know he will move Rakell off Crosby's unit and not Rust.

But a Kreider-type trade involving Jarry or Graves and a surplus future asset is a good idea imo.

Perhaps we should revisit our apparent interest in Tarasenko with Detroit? I wonder if Yzerman would take Jarry?

 

[Ulf5]

Would you rather have Kreider or Zucker?

Kreider and it's not even close. This team needs finishers. Kreider's downswing is partly due to age and partly due to Zibeenbad's play to start the year. Yet, he still has 11 goals in 31 games. Which is right around his career per game average. And he's greasy.

 

[pistolpete11]

Kreider scored damn near 40 goals last year and put up 75 points.

It's never as simple as "he fell off a cliff". Why did he fall off a cliff?

If he's dealing with injuries, the Pens need to steer clear at any cost. Given his age and play style, it's probably not going to get much better and in that case that contract isn't good to have on the books regardless of your outlook.

If it's a random bad 30 games and/or because the Rangers are a mess? Then there's reason to believe he could bounce back on a new team and I don't see a ton of guys available that are capable of scoring anywhere close to 40 goals.

I'm not "going for it", but if he has a clean bill of health and can be had for cheap, I'd be all for it. Something like:

Petts for 2nd+other, other Petts+small add
VAN 2nd+Glass(cap dump)+small add for Kreider

So it'd be Petts+Glass for Kreider+other, other Petts

Seems fine to me.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Kreider and it's not even close. This team needs finishers. Kreider's downswing is partly due to age and partly due to Zibeenbad's play to start the year. Yet, he still has 11 goals in 31 games. Which is right around his career per game average. And he's greasy.

Kreider has a 0.52 5v5 points/60 compared to a 1.32 5v5 points/60 for Zibanejad. I have a really tough time attributing Kreider's bad play to Zibanejad's bad play, Kreider seems he has been far worse.

Kreider scored damn near 40 goals last year and put up 75 points.

It's never as simple as "he fell off a cliff". Why did he fall off a cliff?

To be fair, Kunitz was a very stylistically similar player that also fell off a cliff at about Kreider's age. He abruptly went from being on Team Canada's 2014 Olympic team barely even being a 40 point guy going forward.

Kunitz went from 46 ES points to 23 ES points from 2013-2014 (age 34) to 2014-2015 (age 35) in basically the same amount of games.

 

[Pens x]

If we're being honest Dubas has made a lot of solid incremental moves here. Bringing in Lizotte, trading Eller, getting Tomasino for a 4th, promoting Pickering. Certainly these decisions haven't wowed us. But he is extracting good value and slowly building up the prospect pool without completely leaving the Dinosaurs to die. I prefer he burn it down, but he's doing a nice job in making this team better at the NHL level, well, all levels really. The only way however to get the wow factor most likely is to get a top five pick. Guess we'll have to look to next season and beyond for that.

Jarrey, Hayes, Graves, trading a first outweigh any small improvements he’s made.

 

[McGroarty2]

There was a rumor I read online last week that made no sense whatsoever (for NYR) involving Kreider to the Penguins. It was Kreider to Pit for Graves, Grz and a 2nd rounder in 2027 (of which we own two currently).

I don't see that happening, but that is the type of deal we could use. We CAN give up a future asset if we have multiple picks in a round for a specific year IF it means getting out of one of the contracts we are currently saddled with: Hayes, Graves, Jarry.

Kreider is not ideal because Sullivan would likely be forced to break up the first line. Bunting-Malkin-Kreider probably does not work for two reasons: Bunting is a Kreider lite type and they have similar roles on a line, and also Kreider has been tried unsuccessfully at right wing by the Rangers, and is one of the big reasons why their lineup has failed to get over the hump (too many LWs, not enough RWs).

And if Sullivan breaks up the top line, you know he will move Rakell off Crosby's unit and not Rust.

But a Kreider-type trade involving Jarry or Graves and a surplus future asset is a good idea imo.

Perhaps we should revisit our apparent interest in Tarasenko with Detroit? I wonder if Yzerman would take Jarry?

This would be interesting...
Kreider Crosby Rakell
Bunting Malkin Rust

 

[Ulf5]

This would be interesting...
Kreider Crosby Rakell
Bunting Malkin Rust

Rak- Sid- Mid
Kreider- Geno- Roma
Bunts- Lizo- flavor of the moment
whodafuqcares

 

[Ryder71]

Sullivan was a forward. He has a definite "type" of forward preference that seems cryptically and oddly familiar to how he used to play the game. There is no rhyme or reason to his goaltending and defense lineup decisions. But there definitely seems to be a pattern with the forwards.

Furthermore, David Quinn is a former defenseman and also a former HC so he might have some say in who plays and who sits along the blueline. Quinn is probably more responsible for Pickering's quick rise than Sullivan. He also seems to be doing a good job of resurrecting Karlsson, which to be honest is the only reason his hiring made any sense to begin with.

That's all well and good, but he ultimately makes the decision as to who plays or not. To suggest he's gonna blindly defer to Quinn regarding the defense I'm not buying it.

With forwards it's quite simple really. He's risk averse and doesn't like guys who aren't disciplined or don't play with structure. Well, in his way of thinking. However if you have mad skill like Geno and EK for example he'll bend the rules a bit. Depth forwards not so much.

 

[pistolpete11]

To be fair, Kunitz was a very stylistically similar player that also fell off a cliff at about Kreider's age. He abruptly went from being on Team Canada's 2014 Olympic team barely even being a 40 point guy going forward.

Kunitz went from 46 ES points to 23 ES points from 2013-2014 (age 34) to 2014-2015 (age 35) in basically the same amount of games.

Point taken, but Kunitz's drop just so happens to align with Johnston taking over. Which is part of my point. Something is happening in New York because everybody is seeing a production drop, not just Kreider.

So if we're talking about adding without having to give up a whole lot, I'll take my chances on someone like Kreider bouncing back than someone like Zucker who's having a better year but doesn't have another level to get back to.

 

[Ryder71]

Jarrey, Hayes, Graves, trading a first outweigh any small improvements he’s made.

Trading a 1st for EK was not a mistake, not if the brain trust believed they were still a contender, which of course many here did. Not me, but I understood the gamble. When the team proved they weren't worthy of that decision he reversed course when he had more time here. He afforded this team one more bite at the apple. It didn't work out but I don't think that's a black mark on him at all. Jarry and Graves I agree with. Those weren't good decisions. But no GM gets it all right. As his tenure has grown his decisions have improved.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

So... question to the "not one draft pick shall be spent" crowd... wasn't the idea with Glass, Hayes, Beau, etc. to sign/trade and then later flip? Ya'll loved that idea. You couldn't do that with Kreider? You couldn't extend someone like Zucker another season at his current "one year deals til retirement" plan then flip next year? It makes no sense that you guys are all-in on some hypothetical 3rd round pick sometime down the line for one group of guys but bringing in another body to help for now with the idea that anyone and everyone is on the table to move within the next several years is completely insane and way too big an ask for "where they are."

Like if the price paid were a 1st and top prospect I get it. But most people seem to be dealing from a pretty modest, at best, pool of assets.

What would be YOUR solution to this team pushing a playoff spot despite the odds? Just tell 'em all "nice job but get f***ed?"

 

[Gurglesons]

I will continue to repeat my belief that a serious Penguins team needs to resign or replace Pettersson on D and move out a goaltender to make room for Blomqvist long before any more forwards come into the org. We have internal options there. I only want a forward now if it's a Phil Kessel level impact player and it's too early for that given our other problems.

I’d love for them to give Chychrun or Garvikov an absurd cap hit for 2-3 years. 8.25 x 2. Then you just retain and trade him.

 

[Speaker City]

I’d love for them to give Chychrun or Garvikov an absurd cap hit for 2-3 years. 8.25 x 2. Then you just retain and trade him.

I wonder how known it was that JC was available this offseason since Ottawa practically gave him away. Same with Walman.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So... question to the "not one draft pick shall be spent" crowd... wasn't the idea with Glass, Hayes, Beau, etc. to sign/trade and then later flip? Ya'll loved that idea. You couldn't do that with Kreider? You couldn't extend someone like Zucker another season at his current "one year deals til retirement" plan then flip next year? It makes no sense that you guys are all-in on some hypothetical 3rd round pick sometime down the line for one group of guys but bringing in another body to help for now with the idea that anyone and everyone is on the table to move within the next several years is completely insane and way too big an ask for "where they are."

Like if the price paid were a 1st and top prospect I get it. But most people seem to be dealing from a pretty modest, at best, pool of assets.

What would be YOUR solution to this team pushing a playoff spot despite the odds? Just tell 'em all "nice job but get f***ed?"

With Kreider's play right now, I'm not sure I'd want to gamble on him being the kind of guy you acquire now and flip for later. I'm not saying he's definitely washed but it's a huge gamble to make. He's right at that age where power forwards fall off and they could be trading for a guy who will be unmovable immediately.

If he's costing more than what Anaheim paid for Trouba, I'm probably not interested in Kreider. Far too much risk of just giving the Rangers a "get out of jail free" card by taking a huge contract off their hands without making them pay.

Point taken, but Kunitz's drop just so happens to align with Johnston taking over. Which is part of my point. Something is happening in New York because everybody is seeing a production drop, not just Kreider.

So if we're talking about adding without having to give up a whole lot, I'll take my chances on someone like Kreider bouncing back than someone like Zucker who's having a better year but doesn't have another level to get back to.

The issue is that Kreider's drop has been so massive that you can't just chalk it up due to the team. Like I said, the dude has 3 5v5 points in 31 games this year.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

With Kreider's play right now, I'm not sure I'd want to gamble on him being the kind of guy you acquire now and flip for later. I'm not saying he's definitely washed but it's a huge gamble to make. He's right at that age where power forwards fall off and they could be trading for a guy who will be unmovable immediately.

If he's costing more than what Anaheim paid for Trouba, I'm probably not interested in Kreider. Far too much risk of just giving the Rangers a "get out of jail free" card by taking a huge contract off their hands without making them pay.

Completely understood... for the record I'm not AT ALL enamored with any of the options proffered up so far. I'm just trying to be realistic and trying to lean towards options that would potentially not be overly-costly. I spent more or less Zucker's entire Penguins career (correctly) lampooning what a boner he often was in the OFZ and I think Kreider is massively overrated and am not surprised at all by his down year.

But they are possible buy-low options that are FOR SURE better than any current realistic option to bolster what I see as a ridiculously anemic/ineffectual top six. Yeah yeah yeah the team has a LOT of holes but I fully admit I'm every bit as interested in making these games watchable again as I am in them trying to push a playoff spot for one last hurrah for the guys we should all be very thankful that stuck around. That isn't asking hardly anything at all and it really confuses me sometimes how downright hostile some are to this team having any kind of success or trying to make a respectable ending of things. It's like people's minds are made up and that's that.

I'm talking about like 3rd and 4th round picks, non-prospects, misfit toys and guys who were gonna be traded anyway, here. Not first round picks and guys like Pickering.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Jarrey, Hayes, Graves, trading a first outweigh any small improvements he’s made.

We got picks to take on Hayes. He wasn't a UFA.

 

[Ulf5]

With Kreider's play right now, I'm not sure I'd want to gamble on him being the kind of guy you acquire now and flip for later. I'm not saying he's definitely washed but it's a huge gamble to make. He's right at that age where power forwards fall off and they could be trading for a guy who will be unmovable immediately.

If he's costing more than what Anaheim paid for Trouba, I'm probably not interested in Kreider. Far too much risk of just giving the Rangers a "get out of jail free" card by taking a huge contract off their hands without making them pay.



The issue is that Kreider's drop has been so massive that you can't just chalk it up due to the team. Like I said, the dude has 3 5v5 points in 31 games this year.

He has 5 EV and 2 SH goals, wth you smoking? Where do you get 3 5v5 points?
The only thing off about his production is his assist tally. Only 1 lone assist on the season for some reason. His goals per game is right in line with his career average albeit slightly lower than last season's.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Puljujarvi waived

Feel like he’ll he claimed, no?

 

[Beauner]

Puljujarvi waived

Feel like he’ll he claimed, no?

I just don’t get it. The guy’s an effective bottom 6er. Nieto’s been basically in invisible. LW vs RW be damned it’s just dumb.

I could see him clearing though unless a team is particularly desperate

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Puljujarvi waived

Feel like he’ll he claimed, no?

Dumb but whatever.

 

[Speaker City]

Acciari scored the other night, JP is obsolete...