Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[SEALBound]

Someone needs to show Dubas Moneyball, particularly this scene:



They may be giving Nieto the games out of respect but realistically, the sooner this guy is in the AHL to become a journeyman, the sooner his career potential will be realized. The entire point of Eller being moved was to open up slots for young guys. Nieto out does that as well.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think the final few years of JR was absolutely ratf***ed. But this Sullivan shit is just... Insanity. I can't even begin to wrap my head around it. This ownership and FO have no real attachment to the guy, they weren't part of the B2Bs, but they seem to revere the guy even more than Mario and JR did.

Weirdo shit, man. Can't wait for this era to end, and it's a shame cuz they could've yanked up on the controls and pulled up outta this nosedive back in 2020, but they were content to let it go. It was always gonna end, and be ugly, but the rudderless management and spitefully stubborn coaching woes have left us with what's gonna be a solid 10 years of Sabres/Sens-esque incompetence by the time Sid retires and Sully's deal is up.

I don't think anyone realistically expected this team to compete until the bitter end barring a near-miracle. But I could have never imagined the extent that they would allow the rot to creep in and take hold. Elevating a f***ing NHL head coach ABOVE one of your franchise players is absolute insanity that no respectable/serious franchise would participate in.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think anyone realistically expected this team to compete until the bitter end barring a near-miracle. But I could have never imagined the extent that they would allow the rot to creep in and take hold. Elevating a f***ing NHL head coach ABOVE one of your franchise players is absolute insanity that no respectable/serious franchise would participate in.

Yeah, if you'd had told me immediately after the second of the B2Bs that this team would just rapidly implode and go on this steep and steady decline for the next decade I'd be surprised.

Sullivan's the weirdest coaching situation I've ever seen in the NHL tbh. I only really started watching in the mid-to-late 90s but god damn. It's nonsense. The cliche my entire life was that coaches were hired to be fired in the NHL. Boy I wish that were the case. Imagine how much different this team would be nowadays (and looking forward!) if they'd dumped JR and Sullivan before JR started slinging 1sts/prospects with reckless abandon and Sullivan wasn't allowed to become so insanely fat with complacency and ego upon his throne.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah, if you'd had told me immediately after the second of the B2Bs that this team would just rapidly implode and go on this steep and steady decline for the next decade I'd be surprised.

Sullivan's the weirdest coaching situation I've ever seen in the NHL tbh. I only really started watching in the mid-to-late 90s but god damn. It's nonsense. The cliche my entire life was that coaches were hired to be fired in the NHL. Boy I wish that were the case. Imagine how much different this team would be nowadays (and looking forward!) if they'd dumped JR and Sullivan before JR started slinging 1sts/prospects with reckless abandon and Sullivan wasn't allowed to become so insanely fat with complacency and ego upon his throne.

I mean... that IS the case for the vast majority (all?) of the league because THEY don't have these weird Chuck Noll fever dream fantasyland concepts about bucking the trend and being loyal to head coaches because the way they are "treated" is "mean" or whatever. What a f***ed up rabbit hole this team has stumbled down.

 

[Deport Ogie]

I don't think anyone realistically expected this team to compete until the bitter end barring a near-miracle. But I could have never imagined the extent that they would allow the rot to creep in and take hold. Elevating a f***ing NHL head coach ABOVE one of your franchise players is absolute insanity that no respectable/serious franchise would participate in.

This is what I often say: I'm fairly certain that most Pens fans were prepared for the downturn and were perfectly okay with it given the inexorable march of time after success. But instead what we got is an accelerated downturn due to ego and incompetance and that is a different kettle altogether.

 

[Ulf5]

Nieto comes back from a 10 month long injury and is immediately guaranteed a line-up spot. Cool.

Personally I'm shocked he's not on the 3rd line over Poulin or Puljujarvi lol.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I mean... that IS the case for the vast majority (all?) of the league because THEY don't have these weird Chuck Noll fever dream fantasyland concepts about bucking the trend and being loyal to head coaches because they way they are "treated" is "mean" or whatever. What a f***ed up rabbit hole this team has stumbled down.

I am honestly curious what the driving factor behind this worship is. Like, is FSG just completely uninterested and dumb as f*** when it comes to hockey stuff? They see two B2B Cups on this dude's resume and say: f*** it, that's good enough for a lifetime spot? Is Sullivan some kinda mastermind when it comes to exec-speak and annual corporate reviews?

I'm basically convinced Sully has a clause in his contract that says he has to be paid even if he's hired elsewhere after being fired. I do think that FSG and Dubas adore the guy, and I don't think that kinda clause would be the entire story, but even so, this team's in a dire spot and is going to miss three times in a row. Sid and Geno may not sniff the playoffs for the final 5 years of their career. That's insane. How in the hell do you not act? Shit man, they had to twist Sullivan's arm to fire Todd f***ing Reirden!

 

[MeinerEiner]

A few years ago I was in Boston to visit my former girlfriend who studied at Tufts University. She was friend with a girl who had a cousin playing in the AHL and we went to a game to Manchester, New Hampshire. At this time they were the AHL affiliate for the Kings. After the game we went to dinner with this guy and had a talk about AHL/NHL and stuff. He said that sometimes young players get called up because they want them to make some money. Every day you are on the NHL roster you get paid your NHL salary. Pickering makes 82500$ in the AHL and 886667$ in the NHL.

Long story short maybe the Pens want to give Pickering some extra money and the experience to train with the big club.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

One saving grace I'll say about calling up Ponomarev and Pickering but not playing them: WBS doesn't have many games over the next 2 weeks, so they're not missing anything by not playing in the NHL. WBS has only 4 games this month on 11/16, 11/22, 11/29 and 11/30, so those two sitting for 2 weeks in the NHL is only going to cost them 2 AHL games.

Is it still stupid? Of course, it's mind numbingly stupid. But it's at least not causing them to miss a significant amount of AHL games, so I'd probably rather them practicing with the NHL team and not playing games over practicing with the AHL team and only playing in 2 games.

Sullivan essentially just confirmed this is part of the reason.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1857480058375639339

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah because Mike Sullivan clearly knows what's good for young players pfffft

 

[pistolpete11]

A few years ago I was in Boston to visit my former girlfriend who studied at Tufts University. She was friend with a girl who had a cousin playing in the AHL and we went to a game to Manchester, New Hampshire. At this time they were the AHL affiliate for the Kings. After the game we went to dinner with this guy and had a talk about AHL/NHL and stuff. He said that sometimes young players get called up because they want them to make some money. Every day you are on the NHL roster you get paid your NHL salary. Pickering makes 82500$ in the AHL and 886667$ in the NHL.

Long story short maybe the Pens want to give Pickering some extra money and the experience to train with the big club.

I don't know if people were being serious, but someone said that Blomqvist was probably happy to go back to WBS so he could have fun again. I was thinking, "Nah, he's probably having more fun playing in a city (granted a small city), flying on private jets, and getting paid 10x as much as opposed to being in a town, riding the bus, and making just OK money."

 

[Jag68Sid87]

A few years ago I was in Boston to visit my former girlfriend who studied at Tufts University. She was friend with a girl who had a cousin playing in the AHL and we went to a game to Manchester, New Hampshire. At this time they were the AHL affiliate for the Kings. After the game we went to dinner with this guy and had a talk about AHL/NHL and stuff. He said that sometimes young players get called up because they want them to make some money. Every day you are on the NHL roster you get paid your NHL salary. Pickering makes 82500$ in the AHL and 886667$ in the NHL.

Long story short maybe the Pens want to give Pickering some extra money and the experience to train with the big club.

I hear you and it is a nice story.

HOWEVER, when you are a complete shit show you say f$%* the niceties and the hallmark card moments. This is pro sports and if you don't eat you will be eaten.

They still get paid if you put them on the ice and actually play them, you know? But this team FIRST has to further evaluate the general suckitude of Matt Nieto and Ryan Shea before players such as Ponomarev and Pickering can get a sniff. It is downright embarrassing at this point.

Sullivan essentially just confirmed this is part of the reason.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1857480058375639339

What an absolute joke. As if you need a masters degree to learn this Mike Sullivan system.

More like, "hey, go out there and suck. You will fit right in."

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah because Mike Sullivan clearly knows what's good for young players pfffft

If not Sullivan, then who? He's a top-3 coach in the world, man. C'maaaaaaaaan.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

If not Sullivan, then who? He's a top-3 coach in the world, man. C'maaaaaaaaan.

"I speak in complete sentences and developed a handful of guys like 10 years ago. Praise me."

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

But I honestly believe Sid hates losing. So he’s just deluded himself into thinking they can still win with this front office?

I also think there's two elements to this.

1-Sid's a creature of habit. Sullivan has been his coach since 2016, so he's kind of used to the routine.

2-Sid may like/respect Sullivan as a person, so he's reluctant to demand his firing on a personal level, even if he sort of feels like it should be done on a professional level.

Think about #2 from your own real life experience. Imagine working with someone who you genuinely like and got to know outside of work. Now imagine that person isn't doing very well at their job. You'd be hesitant to go to upper management to get them fired because of your personal relationship with them, so you kind of hope that upper management sees them struggling and fires them on their own so you don't have to be the one to start the ball rolling.

Maybe I'm just giving Crosby too much slack, but I wonder how much of it is he's kind of hoping Dubas/FSG pull the trigger without him having to be the one to force their hand against someone he genuinely likes on a personal level.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Sid's never rocked the boat. The most piss and vinegar we've ever seen from the guy in interviews is him saying "We just don't like 'em." when talking about the Flyers.

But god damn, I wish he would. I know, I know--it's not his job, yadda yadda. But the fact remains that Sullivan is here in large part because Sid wants him to be, and that sucks shit.

I also think there's two elements to this.

1-Sid's a creature of habit. Sullivan has been his coach since 2016, so he's kind of used to the routine.

2-Sid may like/respect Sullivan as a person, so he's reluctant to demand his firing on a personal level, even if he sort of feels like it should be done on a professional level.

Think about #2 from your own real life experience. Imagine working with someone who you genuinely like and got to know outside of work. Now imagine that person isn't doing very well at their job. You'd be hesitant to go to upper management to get them fired because of your personal relationship with them, so you kind of hope that upper management sees them struggling and fires them on their own so you don't have to be the one to start the ball rolling.

Maybe I'm just giving Crosby too much slack, but I wonder how much of it is he's kind of hoping Dubas/FSG pull the trigger without him having to be the one to force their hand against someone he genuinely likes on a personal level.

You're right on the creature of habit thing and the consummate professional thing. But it's impossible to make a direct comparison because none of us work in a purely results-based environment like professional sports, and our coworker isn't torpedoing the entire company for nearly a decade or he'd be working somewhere else for years..

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Crosby should not be expected to run the team. That's supposed to be why they are paying that turd Kyle Dubas like 7M a year.

He did promote "the best man" for the job, after all.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Sid doesn't even need to march into FSG's office and demand Sullivan be fired. He needs to casually mention in the season ending exit interview that the system is stale and isn't working. It'd be that simple imo.

Yeah, agreed, Dubas should grow a spine (and/or brain) and f***ing fire the guy. But Dubas is just kinda along for the ride until Sid retires, I guess. Which is neat, more reason to resent this organization.

I hope a precipitous fall this year to a top-5 pick (fingers crossed) results in the team firing Sullivan in what's definitely gonna be made to be a mutual parting of ways. But we'll see, this team's nothing if not incompetent and dysfunctional as all hell.

 

[Khelandros]

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

You're right on the creature of habit thing and the consummate professional thing. But it's impossible to make a direct comparison because none of us work in a purely results-based environment like professional sports, and our coworker isn't torpedoing the entire company for nearly a decade or he'd be working somewhere else for years..

Eh, I think you can make direct comparisons to "outside hockey" jobs that are results oriented. My previous job entailed working in a team where we, as a team, were sent to help newly start-up companies put in place their computer infrastructure before they could begin operating. So we generally had, say, 2 months to do this.

So as a team, we all had to pull our weight or the entire team would fail to meet the 2 month deadline and there'd be consequences for the whole team. One of my team members was a bit of a slacker, so his "part" was always a bit behind and causing the rest of the team stress about finishing on time. But because he was a friend, I didn't want to be the one to point this out to the team lead even though he was affecting my job and how the company would look at my performance as well, so I just hoped and prayed that the team lead saw the slacking.

Unlike FSG and Dubas, luckily my team lead DID notice it and addressed it so I didn't have to.

View attachment 931038

Has Sullivan ever done a single interview about a player without mentioning how he does on the PK? It's f***ing stupid at this point.

 

[pistolpete11]

I also think there's two elements to this.

1-Sid's a creature of habit. Sullivan has been his coach since 2016, so he's kind of used to the routine.

2-Sid may like/respect Sullivan as a person, so he's reluctant to demand his firing on a personal level, even if he sort of feels like it should be done on a professional level.

Think about #2 from your own real life experience. Imagine working with someone who you genuinely like and got to know outside of work. Now imagine that person isn't doing very well at their job. You'd be hesitant to go to upper management to get them fired because of your personal relationship with them, so you kind of hope that upper management sees them struggling and fires them on their own so you don't have to be the one to start the ball rolling.

Maybe I'm just giving Crosby too much slack, but I wonder how much of it is he's kind of hoping Dubas/FSG pull the trigger without him having to be the one to force their hand against someone he genuinely likes on a personal level.

I'd add that he might not even be doing it consciously. It's a lot easier to put in 110% when you think your work is going to make a difference.

It's also easier to put in 110% when everyone around you is, too.....except if you're Geno. Geno seems to try hardest when nobody else is.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'd add that he might not even be doing it consciously. It's a lot easier to put in 110% when you think your work is going to make a difference.

It's also easier to put in 110% when everyone around you is, too.....except if you're Geno. Geno seems to try hardest when nobody else is.

The Geno hatred over his career, the lazy Russian shit, has always been hysterical. Geno's never played a game in his life where he wasn't busting his ass. He's had awful, just dreadful games, but I cannot recall a single time where I thought to myself "Man, dude just looks like he's on zombie autopilot out there. He's skating around standing straight up and not taking more than like 8 strides a shift." like I have with Sid at times. /shrug

 

[SEALBound]

One extreme weak point of the Penguins since JR left is our inability to move on from players that shouldn't be here. Nieto should be in the AHL unless he gets claimed on waivers.

There is just soooooooooo little case for him being up in the NHL.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

The hype for the Jarry and Nieto return.
EK getting even more minutes with Letang out.
Grzelcyk on the cusp of entering double digits in negative +/-
O'Connor thrust into a 3C role, rewarded for his 12-game pointless streak.

There's just so many captivating storylines surrounding this one.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

One extreme weak point of the Penguins since JR left is our inability to move on from players that shouldn't be here. Nieto should be in the AHL unless he gets claimed on waivers.

There is just soooooooooo little case for him being up in the NHL.

But he's a real good penalty killer! That's the most important thing in an NHL player according to the people who run the Penguins circa 2016 to infinity.