Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[eXile3]

I thought when it was all over it would be a complete rebuild. We were going to do our best to compete while Sid and Geno are here, they retire, we start the rebuild.

This here is torture. Watching Sid struggle with wingers who are playing way outside their roles.

It’s like they choose to neither. We’re not competing or really even rebuilding.

 

[Deport Ogie]

9 years, not that it really matters. Pens x3, Hawks x3, Kings x2, Bruins x1.
Fans and even broadcasters continuously made the same mistake after Chicago's dynasty. They said "3 Cups in 5 years".

The issue stems from people applying "0" in their minds as a starting point, like you'd see on a ruler. But you can't do that here, cuz that's forgetting to count the 2008-09 season.

Be wary of this with things like counting days on a team's calendar. For example Oct. 25th-31st is 7 nights, not 6.

My bad, you're right. Man, and I counted on my fingers and everything.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Boy, it's a good thing they locked him up for so long. Can't replace that sort of performance if you let it go.

Once you let a Jarry go, you're looking for another Jarry

 

[pistolpete11]

I thought when it was all over it would be a complete rebuild. We were going to do our best to compete while Sid and Geno are here, they retire, we start the rebuild.

This here is torture. Watching Sid struggle with wingers who are playing way outside their roles.

It’s like they choose to neither. We’re not competing or really even rebuilding.

If this is where they were always going to end up, fine.

What makes it sickening is that they wasted the last 6 years when they could have still been competitive.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1849667009124151672

Hasse saying that the Pens haven't engaged in any talks with Pettersson yet. Its unlikely that an extension gets signed during the season. Either he's traded or it happens in June.

Also Jarry isn't being put on waivers. It's possible they send him to the AHL for a reconditioning stint since he's been sitting for a while

Which is the right approach, if you can get a big haul for him at the deadline you need to move on and trade him. D's usually bring back good packages

 

[eXile3]

Which is the right approach, if you can get a big haul for him at the deadline you need to move on and trade him. D's usually bring back good packages

Get your expectations ready for a 3rd.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Get your expectations ready for a 3rd.

Ya cause of Dubas... But any other GM gets a late 1st IMO or a 2nd with a solid prospect. Will be comical to see KD f*** it up!

 

[SomeDude]

Get your expectations ready for a 3rd.

Don’t forget the former 4th round pick prospect who apparently is great now and makes the package really worth a 1st.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Ya cause of Dubas... But any other GM gets a late 1st IMO or a 2nd with a solid prospect. Will be comical to see KD f*** it up!

Where is this coming from? He's getting good returns on his trades.
It's the signings that are more dubious.

 

[pistolpete11]

I think it's fair to question the quantity over quality approach from the Guentzel trade, though it looks much better with using the pick on Brunicke, but I think Dubas has done well with trading for the most part. Smith didn't really work, but it was worth a shot and he recouped the pick he spent. Even some of the trades I question like Hayes and Glass have been OK so far.

The bigger issues have been the FA signings, notably Graves and Jarry.

And the biggest sin...sticking with Sullivan.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Where is this coming from? He's getting good returns on his trades.
It's the signings that are more dubious.

It's me, I just don't trust him, and he has never really been a seller before.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I think it's fair to question the quantity over quality approach from the Guentzel trade, though it looks much better with using the pick on Brunicke, but I think Dubas has done well with trading for the most part. Smith didn't really work, but it was worth a shot and he recouped the pick he spent. Even some of the trades I question like Hayes and Glass have been OK so far.

The bigger issues have been the FA signings, notably Graves and Jarry.

And the biggest sin...sticking with Sullivan.

Bunting may yet recover and be tradeable at the deadline, to squeeze out more from that trade.
Ponomarev and Koivunen are former 2nd rounders. Lucius is a 4th. Then obviously Brunicke as you mentioned.

Would you rather have a late 1st than all this? Late 1sts turn into good NHL'ers like 25% of the time.
I'd much rather roll the dice on 5 guys than put all my chips on one. Scouts constantly get it wrong. I don't trust them.

Hayes and Glass are only here because of the picks that came with them. If they perform well that's just a bonus.

 

[eXile3]

Bunting may yet recover and be tradeable at the deadline, to squeeze out more from that trade.
Ponomarev and Koivunen are former 2nd rounders. Lucius is a 4th. Then obviously Brunicke as you mentioned.

Would you rather have a late 1st than all this? Late 1sts turn into good NHL'ers like 25% of the time.
I'd much rather roll the dice on 5 guys than put all my chips on one. Scouts constantly get it wrong. I don't trust them.

Hayes and Glass are only here because of the picks that came with them. If they perform well that's just a bonus.

No. Late 1st are not the different than 2nd rounders. Fine with playing the numbers game in that respect.

But once again, these are half measure moves. Either rebuild or give an actual, honest effort at competing the rest of Sid’s contract.

 

[SEALBound]

Thank goodness. Trade MP.

I think they will. We just aren't in a place where we should be resigning guys like him. Unless it's a short term 2-3yr with a modest raise to $5mil, you send him out. He's primed for a 6x6 or more and he should take it. He'll return a 2nd+ at the TDL, potentially even a late 1st. Go find another Gryz or POJ in FA. The difference Pettersson will make here is not the difference between Cup/playoffs and not.

We need to be EXTRA bad next year anyway.

I wonder if Sid is finally upset at having below average wingers? Like a few years with Jake snapped him out of the autistic obsession with proving he can 'do it with anyone'. Like, buddy - nobody will judge you at 40 years old for asking for Marner on your wing.

But yeah, I for one, totally could never see these past few years coming. Totally unavoidable because 3 players on the team are older than league average. We have 3 older players so it's literally an impossible task for Kyle to spend the other 60M wisely and staff younger players. Such an impossible situation for that guy. People on message boards can hardly comprehend the logic - how can we expect him to? Lackluster goaltending, defense, and a forward group missing a top line. The solution to all our problems is to try the same thing going forward.

I think Crosby has a stubbornness to his game that, if you don't play like he wants you to, he wants you off the line. Which is fine, he's earned that right, but at the same time if you run through the options and still don't like what you have, you have no one to blame but yourself.

I think TRYING:

Rakell-Sid-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-DOC/Beau
Beau/DOC-Eller-Puljujarvi
Hayes-Glass-Acciari

would be worth it.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Oh buddy I have news for you.

6 x 5M inbound. Because, reasons.

I am l shocked. Shocked I say. Well, not shocked.

It’s like they choose to neither. We’re not competing or really even rebuilding.

I wish someone would have warned us about the path we were going down earlier!

 

[pistolpete11]

Bunting may yet recover and be tradeable at the deadline, to squeeze out more from that trade.
Ponomarev and Koivunen are former 2nd rounders. Lucius is a 4th. Then obviously Brunicke as you mentioned.

Would you rather have a late 1st than all this? Late 1sts turn into good NHL'ers like 25% of the time.
I'd much rather roll the dice on 5 guys than put all my chips on one. Scouts constantly get it wrong. I don't trust them.

That's a false choice fallacy.

I don't really care to relitigate this because none of us really know what was on the table, but there were a lot of rumors that involved top prospects or young NHLers like Kakko+a pick. It wasn't necessary what they got or a late 1st and that's it.

And really, I'm not even arguing one side or the other. I'm just saying I understand being disappointed with the Guentzel trade. If that's your opinion, cool. If it's not, also cool. I see both sides. The rest of the trades, though, I think have been pretty good.

Hayes and Glass are only here because of the picks that came with them. If they perform well that's just a bonus.

Sure, but they are combing for $6M in cap space and playing mostly on the 4th line while Sid has been playing with guys that shouldn't be above the 3rd line.

Unless they can turn the top 6 around, that's going to remain a criticism of those trades IMO. I'm just not as down on it now because at least Hayes and Glass are playing pretty well.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's me, I just don't trust him, and he has never really been a seller before.

Don't let people fool you into believing otherwise.

Dubas is continously getting taken to the wood shed on his trades.

 

[SEALBound]

That's a false choice fallacy.

I don't really care to relitigate this because none of us really know what was on the table, but there were a lot of rumors that involved top prospects or young NHLers like Kakko+a pick. It wasn't necessary what they got or a late 1st and that's it.

And really, I'm not even arguing one side or the other. I'm just saying I understand being disappointed with the Guentzel trade. If that's your opinion, cool. If it's not, also cool. I see both sides. The rest of the trades, though, I think have been pretty good.


Sure, but they are combing for $6M in cap space and playing mostly on the 4th line while Sid has been playing with guys that shouldn't be above the 3rd line.

Unless they can turn the top 6 around, that's going to remain a criticism of those trades IMO. I'm just not as down on it now because at least Hayes and Glass are playing pretty well.

I'm going to see how Brunicke looks this year before I squawk too hard about a 1st from the Guentzel trade. That draft was an absolute cluster after about 10-12 guys.

The problem I have with your bottom statement is, while it's fair to say "we could have had an extra $6mil to spend on a top 6 wing", we have to first stop and consider whether or not that something that we should even be doing. Looking in and around that price range, we are looking at guys like Toffoli ($6mil x 4yr), Marchessault ($5.5mil x 5yr), Bertuzzi ($5.5mil x 4yrs, and Stephenson ($6.25mil x 7yr).

For where this organization is at and how much overall impact guys like those would ultimately have, I think there's a good argument to suggest we shouldn't have and that we were better off taking the draft capital and rounding out our depth. Hayes is scoring for us just as good as any of those guys and will likely net us a small return at the TDL (this year or next). Glass is 25yo and can do both center and wing and is overall doing well on top of being a RFA. He's a young bottom/middle-6 center that we really needed, and once you have guys like Eller, Hayes, and maybe Acciari going out, we will need him for a bottom-6 center slot.

I don't think a $6mil+ wing would be a difference-maker right now. Not with the way everything else looks.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Where is this coming from? He's getting good returns on his trades.
It's the signings that are more dubious.

More "dubious" or "dubas"?

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Picks 24 to 32 have a 31.44% chance of playing 300 games in the NHL

Second round picks on average have a 25.1% chance of that.

Curious where I got my 13% chance from that I thought was right. I had the source lost it found a new one.

Anyways getting a 2nd and multiple prospects worth a 2nd is better than a 1st.

That is all.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I thought when it was all over it would be a complete rebuild. We were going to do our best to compete while Sid and Geno are here, they retire, we start the rebuild.

This here is torture. Watching Sid struggle with wingers who are playing way outside their roles.

It’s like they choose to neither. We’re not competing or really even rebuilding.

Been my issue all along. We're not "going for it" because we didn't add any actual offensive support up front to take the load off the Dynamic Duo up front, we didn't bolster the defense (which IMO is the real shitty area of the team), and we didn't add an actual starting goalie you can rely on.

So rebuild it is except ...

We refuse to play youth and instead gift spots to veterans who loaf it too often and don't really do much more than a young player would given that role.

 

[Gurglesons]

Picks 24 to 32 have a 31.44% chance of playing 300 games in the NHL

Second round picks on average have a 25.1% chance of that.

Curious where I got my 13% chance from that I thought was right. I had the source lost it found a new one.

Anyways getting a 2nd and multiple prospects worth a 2nd is better than a 1st.

That is all.

Multiple propsects worth a 2nd?

Who of Koivunen, Ponomarev, or Lucius is returning a 2nd right now?

 

[Randy Butternubs]

More like a return of #2.

#2 is poo.

 

[SEALBound]

Multiple propsects worth a 2nd?

Who of Koivunen, Ponomarev, or Lucius is returning a 2nd right now?

Pono probably could but it's irrelevant because they are worth more to us than a 2nd.

Pickering nor Poulin are returning that either but who cares since we would rather have them as a player than a 2nd to be used on an unknown.

Plenty of teams with younger players would take that approach as well.

 

[deakka]

Multiple propsects worth a 2nd?

Who of Koivunen, Ponomarev, or Lucius is returning a 2nd right now?

Probably Koivunen. Hes done nothing to lower his draft pedigree. Almost PPG in mens legaue in liiga last season. And although small sample size, hes a PPG player so far in the AHL as well.