Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[eXile3]

McCann is a nobody who is doing what Granlund is doing on the Sharks.

But, my overall point was people freaked out about Hallander as a value add in the Kapanen trade and he was a nobody then and a nobody when he was returned to us.

Very similar to the logic people put into the Guentzel trade about Koivunen and Pono being these "B+ prospects". They are also largely nobodies.

Damn. I would take those nobodies back in a second. When I think nobodies I think 90% of our current roster.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I had a weekend thought, for all those people that want the Penguins to tank for a high draft pick.

Why? Say they do tank and get 1-5 pick. That pick, with Sullivan still here, won't see the NHL until at least year 3. And only if there is an injury to someone.

First of all, there's way too much emphasis on that one pick. It's about the combined product of all the picks. Tanking improves the quantity as much as the quality.
Secondly, why would you not want to spend these years loading up on picks? They're gonna lose anyway. May as well start building towards the future while you're at it.

A top prospect having his ELC delayed until the team's more relevant only helps. We don't need him to be ready soon at all. That serves no purpose during tanking years.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I feel like the Penguins probably have to be among the worst teams in the league for a promising young player to find himself, no?

I don't really see the point in even thinking about a REAL rebuild until Mike Sullivan is gone and the whole stance of the team truly shifts.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If a player doesn't come into this organization as a completely finished product, good f***ing luck, buddy. That's a big reason I think this coach adores the ZARs of the world. No work to do there.

Sully either outright refuses, or simply cannot, coach youth up to potential. Shit, he can't coach vets to potential. I know we all shit on the EK trade but a guy doesn't accidentally score 100pts as a blueliner, man. Soon as he arrives, we got this dipshit trying to turn him into Paul Martin instead of trying to figure out a way to tap into the potential of a guy with that kind of skill and ability.

 

[SEALBound]

I feel like the Penguins probably have to be among the worst teams in the league for a promising young player to find himself, no?

I don't really see the point in even thinking about a REAL rebuild until Mike Sullivan is gone and the whole stance of the team truly shifts.

But is that even really true?

Marino, ZAR, Sheary, Rust, Wilson, Kuhnhackl, DOC, Jake, Puustinen - these are all young kids that got the chance and do/did well.

There's a difference between:

Sullivan LITERALLY NEVER gives a young player a chance vs Sullivan sometimes gives young players and sometimes they do well and sometimes they don't.

Like, what young budding star are we mad about?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I take your point but if you think the Pittsburgh Penguins have done anything close to even a decent job re: drafting and player development we just aren't going to agree. I think it's more or less just common knowledge at this point. None of those players you mentioned moved the needle at all even in depth roles and the ones that are actually any good were from getting on ten years ago.

If you can't even develop your own Brock McGinns and have to go out and pay for one then you suck at your job.

 

[Gurglesons]

But is that even really true?

Marino, ZAR, Sheary, Rust, Wilson, Kuhnhackl, DOC, Jake, Puustinen - these are all young kids that got the chance and do/did well.

There's a difference between:

Sullivan LITERALLY NEVER gives a young player a chance vs Sullivan sometimes gives young players and sometimes they do well and sometimes they don't.

Like, what young budding star are we mad about?

Samuel Poulin is somehow putting up respectable metrics despite everyone telling me he isn’t an NHLer.

 

[Gurglesons]

Damn. I would take those nobodies back in a second. When I think nobodies I think 90% of our current roster.

If McCann was on this team he’d be doing exactly what Bunting is.

 

[Pancakes]

If McCann was on this team he’d be doing exactly what Bunting is.

I know you hate Mccann but there's no f-ing way lol. He's a much better player than Michael frickin Bunting.

Sullivan would misuse him, but he'd still find a way to score 20 goals on this team. Bunting will be lucky to even hit that.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Wait Bunting isn't awesome, anymore?

Geez. That was faster than usual!

 

[Gurglesons]

I know you hate Mccann but there's no f-ing way lol. He's a much better player than Michael frickin Bunting.

Sullivan would misuse him, but he'd still find a way to score 20 goals on this team. Bunting will be lucky to even hit that.

McCann paced for 20 goals twice here. Once when he was on Crosby's line and once in a shortened season where Sullivan actually gave him to powerplay time.

I think it's hilarious that you think McCann would be playing with Sid or getting top PP time over Bryan Rust.

Also, I love Jared McCann. He's just a nothing burger.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

That's it... I'm putting a moratorium on the phrase "nothing burger"

This is going in the same bin as "rent free" and "touch grass."

 

[BusinessGoose]

I said a few weeks ago already, when everyone wanted xyz prospect on the NHL squad, that I don't want any of our young players anywhere near this steaming pile of unstructured NHL hocket they're playing

Don't want any future draft picks learning here either

Until the coaching staff is ALL gone

 

[DesertPenguin]

Anyone else getting worried about Letang's illness that's kept him out last few games? With his health history I worry what they mean by illness.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Anyone else getting worried about Letang's illness that's kept him out last few games? With his health history I worry what they mean by illness.

As long as his heart is okay, he can get scratched all year

 

[SEALBound]

I take your point but if you think the Pittsburgh Penguins have done anything close to even a decent job re: drafting and player development we just aren't going to agree. I think it's more or less just common knowledge at this point. None of those players you mentioned moved the needle at all even in depth roles and the ones that are actually any good were from getting on ten years ago.

If you can't even develop your own Brock McGinns and have to go out and pay for one then you suck at your job.

A LOT of our 2nd and 3rd round picks that should be contributing right now did not pan out:
Bjorkqvist
Hall
Lauzon
Phillips
Hallander
Legare
Broz but he may be turning the tide.
Poulin but he may be turning the tide

Some did fine: Sprong, Gusty, Addison, and Blomqvist

So I agree that for some reason, we had 6-ish years of no one really panning out sans Blomqvist. So development-wise, I agree. But there's also an aspect of expectations when it comes to the rest of them. You should really only expect so much out of 4-7th round picks which is where the majority of our drafting was. Just because we have a nice collection of 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th round picks that haven't done squat outside of Puustinen and Simon, I'm not going to blame our "development program" on that because in all reality, they probably weren't going to make it anyways, otherwise they likely would have been drafted higher.

Our "Brock McGinn" was Bjorkqvist who couldn't stay healthy and went home. So we went and signed DOC.

Samuel Poulin is somehow putting up respectable metrics despite everyone telling me he isn’t an NHLer.

This year he's done fine. He was injured every time he might have gotten a shot last year. His sabbatical didn't help his development either.

Unfortunately for Poulin, Poulin's problems are on Poulin. Not Mike Sullivan.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Anyone else getting worried about Letang's illness that's kept him out last few games? With his health history I worry what they mean by illness.

Yep. The moment I saw "illness", couldn't help but wonder.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Well I've been saying for a while that 2nd and beyond picks are a crapshoot at best but ya'll keep insisting that they are a key piece to the puzzle. So I'm not going to disagree that the Penguins haven't exactly picked in prime territory the last 10+ years. But I think it's a bit of an overstated cop-out TBH. I won't count the last two drafts as they are too undetermined to factor in but from the 2022 draft back to 2012 the Penguins have actually had 5 first rounders, 11 second rounders and 7 third rounders by my count. The picks you guys have collectively determined to be "valuable."

They have done very little with them. A couple of very obvious big hits but that was a while ago, now... not that it doesn't count only that things have obviously... changed. To be fair this was over the course of (barely) two coaches and three GMs. So the "reset" button was hit at least a few times there which can create some instability.

I dunno... I would not ever be comfortable trying to argue FOR the idea that the Penguins aren't so bad at drafting and development. They seem to be moving a little in the right direction re: their farm teams in particular but in general I'd say this franchise has done a very poor job in all facets of that part of the organization. At least since Sullivan abandoned what worked.

 

[Khelandros]

But is that even really true?

Marino, ZAR, Sheary, Rust, Wilson, Kuhnhackl, DOC, Jake, Puustinen - these are all young kids that got the chance and do/did well.

There's a difference between:

Sullivan LITERALLY NEVER gives a young player a chance vs Sullivan sometimes gives young players and sometimes they do well and sometimes they don't.

Like, what young budding star are we mad about?

Marino - ~2 seasons with Pens, sophomore slump and moved down the lineup. Traded for a 3rd + Ty Smith
ZAR - Northeastern University alum, signed as FA, perfect player according to Sullivan. Traded for Rakell.
Sheary - Married to the coaches niece.
Rust - ?? don't know what Sullivan sees. He has one move to the net and is always out of position.
Wilson - Really only 1 season, was already there when Sullivan showed up. Canadian, didn't PK, traded for veteran Riley Sheahan.
Kuhnhackl - ~2 seasons with the Pens. 10 minutes a night, excellent PKer. Wasn't resigned, European and young.
DOC- Steadily working his way down the lineup.
Jake - He didn't give Sullivan a choice. He kept scoring, if only he did some PK work, he might still be here.
Puustinen - has been relegated to the press box because of the veterans that are really good on the PK.

 

[Pancakes]

McCann paced for 20 goals twice here. Once when he was on Crosby's line and once in a shortened season where Sullivan actually gave him to powerplay time.

I think it's hilarious that you think McCann would be playing with Sid or getting top PP time over Bryan Rust.

Also, I love Jared McCann. He's just a nothing burger.

Our depth is so shot now that he probably would be playing with Crosby is the thing. Hard to see him not vastly outperforming Bunting given those circumstances.

Then again Sullivan is a moron so maybe he'd try using him as a 3c or something

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Our depth is so shot now that he probably would be playing with Crosby is the thing. Hard to see him not vastly outperforming Bunting given those circumstances.

Then again Sullivan is a moron so maybe he'd try using him as a 3c or something

lol isn't that exactly what he did to him right before he got traded to be Toronto's expansion draft meat shield?

 

[SEALBound]

Marino - ~2 seasons with Pens, sophomore slump and moved down the lineup. Traded for a 3rd + Ty Smith
ZAR - Northeastern University alum, signed as FA, perfect player according to Sullivan. Traded for Rakell.
Sheary - Married to the coaches niece.
Rust - ?? don't know what Sullivan sees. He has one move to the net and is always out of position.
Wilson - Really only 1 season, was already there when Sullivan showed up. Canadian, didn't PK, traded for veteran Riley Sheahan.
Kuhnhackl - ~2 seasons with the Pens. 10 minutes a night, excellent PKer. Wasn't resigned, European and young.
DOC- Steadily working his way down the lineup.
Jake - He didn't give Sullivan a choice. He kept scoring, if only he did some PK work, he might still be here.
Puustinen - has been relegated to the press box because of the veterans that are really good on the PK.

Okay? Still young guys that got a chance and were roster players under Sullivan.

I mean, look, I hate Sullivan as much as anymore. I hate the system and I hate the lack of meaningful change. But at the same time, I can't support the "he doesn't play the youth" we the truth is, what youth we've had in the past that's worth a damn has gotten the chance.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'd say this team already has a Kapanen with Beau, but Beau actually scores a goal now and then.

-edit- Was curious, looked it up. He scored 8 goals in 23 games after arriving in St. Louis, which is basically Beau's production (6g in 20GP). In the following 83 games, Kap had 7 goals. Dude's donezo.

 

[Pancakes]

lol isn't that exactly what he did to him right before he got traded to be Toronto's expansion draft meat shield?

He did but we had Rust/Jake then so McCann was never getting onto Sid's line in those circumstances

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

He did but we had Rust/Jake then so McCann was never getting onto Sid's line in those circumstances

Yeah. I mean it's Sullivan... was never gonna work out with McCann. That's why I don't get too worked up about losing him even if it ended up being poor asset management.

EDIT: The bigger boner move was holding on to Carter through the ED like he was some integral part of the team or something. Though of course the even BIGGER sin was then following through with that unbelievably moronic idea by extending him three more seasons.