Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[DesertPenguin]

Acciari shouldn't be playing center at all IMO.

Eller-Acciari should be 2/3rds of our 4th line. Put a kid on the line with them. Gruden maybe, or one of Poulin or Ponomarev.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Acciari shouldn't be playing center at all IMO.

It's more that Sullivan needs to be more flexible in the roles positions play in his scheme. Acciari is really good on faceoffs, and he's a righty. But there's no logical reason why he can't also be the first on the forecheck instead of one of the wings.

That's some of the rigidity of Sullivan's system that frustrates even me.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Fixed it for you

Please Emp... I'm TRYING to be charitable, today.

Man and I liked that contract when it was signed. But he was bad beyond coaching issues last season. A shift to wing would help but he's still likely pretty mediocre at best and certainly overpaid, regardless.

It's more that Sullivan needs to be more flexible in the roles positions play in his scheme. Acciari is really good on faceoffs, and he's a righty. But there's no logical reason why he can't also be the first on the forecheck instead of one of the wings.

That's some of the rigidity of Sullivan's system that frustrates even me.

I don't disagree at all with your overall point.

But faceoff ability is so overrated. Especially on this team. It's what happens immediately after that is important and in the Penguins case it's usually some too-cute set play that gets picked. They were tops or near it in the league last year in FO% and it didn't matter at all.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I mean, he is one year away from winning the trophy that says he's the best defenseman in hockey so...

Irrelevant, since he's not gonna do it again. We're talking about value now and moving forward.
If you always paid guys based on outliers then you'd hurt your cap situation every time.

 

[Turin]

Karlsson at $10 million is the 4th highest paid defenseman in hockey. Is Karlsson the 4th best defenseman in hockey? Absolutely not.

He should be making what Carlson and Chabot are making, not more than Fox and McAvoy.

I think Karlsson is better than Chabot and Carlson, and they make 8 mill. So maybe 9 mil is his sweet spot - whatever. The fact that his contract is a bit rich is what enabled the Pens to get him and dump some of their ass contracts to begin with. Karlsson has close to 70 points last year if the powerplay is even mid.

 

[SEALBound]

Here's a trade proposal that I'd be curious for insight on: Rakell to Detroit for Andrew Copp. Copp is absolutely expensive for what he brings, but I'd rather have a physical 3C that will give you 35-40 points a year over a floaty RW that will give you 40-50 points a year.

I'd do that. That would would really open the door to a lot of interesting third line combinations.

Karlsson is a good player but paying him $10 million a year is wild.

He's like a $7 million player at this point on this team, in this system.

Fixed/Added

Not that I don't like EK but he's not a core player to me so I would have no reservations about moving if the opportunity arises but it's more like Jarry - move if you can and it makes sense. Certainly not this "dump to get out of the contract" non-sense that others are pushing.

 

[Gurglesons]

Karlsson is 34 going on 35 next year.

He's not a 10 million dollar player.

The trade was awful in retrospect.

We burned a great positioned 1st round, we still have a 2nd rounder floating from it.

We are retaining on Petry and our GM did nothing after it to prove we were a win now team while making a win now trade.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Anyone else surprised more isn't happening right now? Cup is over. Draft is in 48 hours. UFA begins right after that. Teams should be in a flurry of activity.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

And I'd much rather have Eller around for this year when you're trying to get players like Ponomarev, Poulin, and potentially Koivunen acclimated to the NHL. Eller's consistency gives them someone stable to play with in the bottom six, and for Ponomoarev and Poulin, a center they can work with to develop their skills.

We always have to remember who our coach is. Having Eller around means Ponomarev, Poulin, Yager will either be fighting for the fourth-line center job, or back in the AHL/WHL. I suppose Poulin might play wing, and Koivunen is a winger candidate.

Ultimately, trading Eller is better because it creates another opening for a kid to earn a roster spot. Remember, Dubas should be in the business of taking away Sullivan's toys for everybody's sake.

Let's not forget, Lars Eller is a candidate to play on our power play (FIRST unit even) under this coach.

I like him as a player but he gots to go. It's enough already with these Sullivan love affair players.

Could absolutely be right but the dude was about as perfect of a middle-6 C as you could find just 2 years ago. For just the cost of Rakell straight up, I think the gamble would be worth it.

I would rather have Rakell than Copp. We should be trading for players with more offensive upside rather than less. Plus, I think Rakell fits better with our young centers.

Mike Sullivan would probably LOVE Andrew Copp. All the more reason to stay away.

 

[Gurglesons]

Anyone else surprised more isn't happening right now? Cup is over. Draft is in 48 hours. UFA begins right after that. Teams should be in a flurry of activity.

No, hockey GMs are f***ing losers that act like it's impossible to make trades.

That's why Vegas and Golden Knights have been cleaning house the last few years, because they don't give a f***.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Certainly, if we're going to surmise about individual personality and or vibes.. I'm gonna surmise that this is a rudderless ship of chaos. FSG don't know what to do, Dubas is making shit up on the fly, the coaching staff are way out to lunch on league trends let alone on evaluating the talent at hand, and the players are a group of guys not a team.

It's just mismanagement. It's when your boss sucks and the office is falling apart.

The issue is FSG hired these blokes to run the team but trusts Sullivan more than them and he's their inside man. The fact that Sullivan felt so comfortable with them to go behind the normal avenues to negotiate his own deal says a lot. It's not common in the NHL to see that at all. A GM or Team President will do the negotiation.

Quinn is a direct Sullivan hire. There's no Dubas relationship to him. Sullivan has deep ties to him. FSG also basically told Sullivan to tell them what he needs for wbs to run a certain way etc. That is far too much trust and deep of a relationship between a coach and the owners. I think Dubas is better off hiring a GM quick to get the heat he is going to keep getting from Sullivan failing with each fix he tries, so the ownership gets to see the issues from a new perspective and voice.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I would rather have Rakell than Copp. We should be trading for players with more offensive upside rather than less. Plus, I think Rakell fits better with our young centers.

Mike Sullivan would probably LOVE Andrew Copp. All the more reason to stay away.

If Rakell isn't on PP1, what kind of offensive upside does he have here?

He's not a "bad" 5v5 producer, but he's not a particularly special one either.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We always have to remember who our coach is. Having Eller around means Ponomarev, Poulin, Yager will either be fighting for the fourth-line center job, or back in the AHL/WHL. I suppose Poulin might play wing, and Koivunen is a winger candidate.

Ultimately, trading Eller is better because it creates another opening for a kid to earn a roster spot. Remember, Dubas should be in the business of taking away Sullivan's toys for everybody's sake.

Let's not forget, Lars Eller is a candidate to play on our power play (FIRST unit even) under this coach.

I like him as a player but he gots to go. It's enough already with these Sullivan love affair players.




I would rather have Rakell than Copp. We should be trading for players with more offensive upside rather than less. Plus, I think Rakell fits better with our young centers.

Mike Sullivan would probably LOVE Andrew Copp. All the more reason to stay away.

I like Rakell. To produce at a 50pt pace after coming back from his injury and it still lingered and bothered him. He's the right value for his contract and he's a huge help to Sid's wing for production and defensive responsibilities.

Eller I agree - will be misused again. I think the ideal situation is him as 4c. It puts the team in a strong position with him there and a better more offensively gifted 3c (Roslovic is the hat I've thrown in the ring for that job).

If Rakell isn't on PP1, what kind of offensive upside does he have here?

He's not a "bad" 5v5 producer, but he's not a particularly special one either.

Puustinen is the better fit for the PP1 job. Rakell being on the 2nd unit left side is better for the PP2 unit.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I like Rakell. To produce at a 50pt pace after coming back from his injury and it still lingered and bothered him. He's the right value for his contract and he's a huge help to Sid's wing for production and defensive responsibilities.

Eller I agree - will be misused again. I think the ideal situation is him as 4c. It puts the team in a strong position with him there and a better more offensively gifted 3c (Roslovic is the hat I've thrown in the ring for that job).

Is Rakell even playing with Crosby going forward?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Is Rakell even playing with Crosby going forward?

Logically it's his best left winger for keeping that line from not being an absolute disaster defensively like it is with Doc and was with Jake while also capable of putting up solid offense.

So of course Sullivan will put him with Geno, wait for Geno to be comfortable with Rakell and Raks producing, then rip him off the line for Sid's LW.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Anyone else surprised more isn't happening right now? Cup is over. Draft is in 48 hours. UFA begins right after that. Teams should be in a flurry of activity.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

View attachment 887757

That damn LeBumm

 

[BusinessGoose]

Absolutely f*** signing JG to $10mil+

 

[Ulf5]

But we could have had both at 3C/4C

In a nutshell Eller is better. But Blueger was very effective and worked well with his linemates in Vancouver until his injury.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

In a nutshell Eller is better. But Blueger was very effective and worked well with his lineages in Vancouver until his injury.

Blueger after his injury had more restrictive usage as they also went on a bit of a rut and Tocchet made adjustments to tighten up their defensive game and Blueger was trusted for that but moved down to the 4c spot after Lindholm got over.

On the Pens, Sullivan basically gave him the worst possible linemates and shit deployment and usage and Blueger went from promising 3c to confused and devoid of puck skills 4c plug that Sullivan likes to turn bottom 6 players into.

 

[Ulf5]

View attachment 887757

Jagoff.

 

[Empoleon8771]

In a nutshell Eller is better. But Blueger was very effective and worked well with his linemates in Vancouver until his injury.

Blueger would still be here if he didn't suck donkey dong in 2022-2023 for the Penguins.

 

[Gurglesons]

It’d be funny if Detroit buys out Petry.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We for sure need a better goalie coach

It's andy chiodo still with the team? Yeesh

I felt they should have replaced Chiodo a couple of seasons ago. Elkin has done a better job with the Wbs goalies than Chiodo has with Ned and Jarry.

Blueger would still be here if he didn't suck donkey dong in 2022-2023 for the Penguins.

Way too many sucked "donkey dong" under Sullivan but went on to be better for other teams after leaving.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Way too many sucked "donkey dong" under Sullivan but went on to be better for other teams after leaving.

Such as? ZAR sucked after leaving the Penguins. McGinn sucked after leaving the Penguins. Kapanen sucked after leaving the Penguins. Sheahan sucked after leaving the Penguins.

The Penguins absolutely undervalued good players and let them go improperly, all of McCann, ERod and Gaudreau fall in that. But none of those guys "sucked donkey dong" for the Penguins. For the guys who have actually been terrible for the Penguins, they've pretty much exclusively been terrible after leaving the Penguins too.