Confirmed with Link: Penguins and Mike Sullivan part ways

[Empoleon8771]

Not super interested in him. I think he's overrated as hell.

I kinda just want someone younger who can handle youth. David Carle seems like the perfect fit but I don't know why he'd want to come here.

I don't see why anyone here would want Tocchet. Not only is he not a development focused coach who is good towards young players, he's also not even a good win-now coach based on his track record.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

I have warmed up to Jeff Halpern.

 

[Ulf5]

Gross, Dubi was too much of a coward to say Sully was fired

He said it more than once, just not in direct words. Meaning he didn't just outright say I fired him. But if you payed close attention, he said it.

 

[Pancakes]

I don't see why anyone here would want Tocchet. Not only is he not a development focused coach who is good towards young players, he's also not even a good win-now coach based on his track record.

Remember the people pushing a narrative about how actually he was the coach responsible for us winning the two cups and Sully was just a passenger? lol.

I don't think Tocchet is terrible. Nor do I think Sullivan is. I do think both are overrated to various degrees. But they're both far from what we need.

 

[Turin]

Tocchet would get this team grinding out enough boring wins to finish 11th

 

[Ulf5]

Of all the candidates mentioned in this thread:
1- which ones are considered the better developmental coaches
2- which ones don't think you have to try to win every damn game 1-0? And think a bit of offense is actually meant to be part of the game?
3- which ones are adept at playing players to their strengths, putting them in position to reach the best version of themselves?

 

[DesertedPenguin]

So 5 out of 6 non Pens vacancies. I wonder who didn’t hit him up.

My guess is the Rangers, Islanders, Bruins, Blackhawks, and Flyers all reached out. I doubt Anaheim did and I doubt Seattle did.

I'm sure Rutherford will call him if he hasn't already now that Vancouver needs a coach.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I have warmed up to Jeff Halpern.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Mike Sullivan did not have better rosters. This is nonsense.

Recency bias. Do a year by year comparison of the wingers and D-men. Sullivan also happily chose to use worse players in the bottom-six, when better ones were available out of camp and in Wilkes.
He just got less out of players than Bylsma did, relative to their career average level.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If you're saying that Sullivan was worse about playing bad players over better players than Bylsma, that's just you admitting you weren't a Penguins fan when Bylsma was the coach.

This one player invalidates the entire argument:

People here say Sullivan was married to shitty players because he played Harkins for 45 games in 2023-2024 without him getting a goal. Dan Bylsma played Craig Adams for 82 games in 2009-2010 where he put up 0 goals. Then he played him for another 292 games after that.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

While that's all well and good, Bylsma had Crosby and Malkin in their absolute primes with some pretty loaded teams. I don't think it's a 100% fair comparison.

The boost you get from Crosby and Malkin being younger and their control over games is ridiculously exaggerated here. The Oilers had some playoff misses with McDavid and Draisaitl.

The Pens got 58 points in the standings when Sid had 100 points in his rookie year. 2nd last in the league. He couldn't change shit about their fate, much like we've missed the playoffs 3 years in a row with Sid playing all the games and putting up over 90 points a year.

The margins between their younger and older selves doesn't hold a candle to the collective strength of the rest of the roster. That's especially the case when it comes to key positions, like the blue line.

Bylsma did not have super deep teams outside of very short windows (like 2013). He just milked them in the regular season for all they're worth.

 

[Turin]

Criticizing Sullivan for having great rosters and then saying Bowman was the best is kind of rich. Dude coached nothing but HOF players and they hated him so much they chased him away after the worlds biggest choke against NYI after only 2 seasons. But comparing the rosters with Bylsma vs Sullivan is an interesting question.

Pens had 5 seasons under Sullivan where they were real Cup contenders in my opinion. 16, 17, 18, 21, 22. Won in the first two, 18 was bullshit, they would have easily won the Cup if Hornqvist, Hagelin, Malkin, Kessel, Brassard weren't all injured. 21 they dominated the Isles and Jarry just gave the series away egregiously. 22 they dominated the Rangers but they were playing a non NHLer in net.

Bylsma Pens were true contenders in 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013, and 2014. 2010 and 2014 is debatable, but those team should have at least went to the conference finals even though they probably wouldn't have beat Chicago or LA ultimately. The flame outs for the Bylsma Pens were more obviously coaching related than Sullivan's teams - especially 2012, 2013 and 2014.

I think ultimately Sullivan's best teams were better than Bylsma's best teams but Bylsma had the biggest star advantage in the league and couldn't get a win past the second round after the Cup in his first season where he obviously won because he simply wasn't Therrien.


Sullivan legitimately had the 2016 team change hockey, and then he won again the next year without Letang in what was the best coaching job in Pens history. Yea, he got stale and high on his own supply but Bylsma won ONE CUP by not being Michel Therrien. Sullivan actively coached his way to a back to back, when it hadn't been done since the 90's.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

If you're saying that Sullivan was worse about playing bad players over better players than Bylsma, that's just you admitting you weren't a Penguins fan when Bylsma was the coach.

This one player invalidates the entire argument:

People here say Sullivan was married to shitty players because he played Harkins for 45 games in 2023-2024 without him getting a goal. Dan Bylsma played Craig Adams for 82 games in 2009-2010 where he put up 0 goals. Then he played him for another 292 games after that.

I just had an entire body shiver.

The player that made me despise those Bylsma teams so much.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the whole "Sullivan vs Bylsma" debate is purely just this board being fed up with Sullivan overstaying his welcome by like 4 years. Had he been fired in 2021 like he should have, no one would be looking back today asking if Sullivan or Bylsma was the better coach.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Prime Crosby/Malkin were able to drag teams that had the likes of Tanner Glass and Craig Adams to the second round, despite those two getting regular bottom six shifts.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I just had an entire body shiver.

The player that made me despise those Bylsma teams so much.

Yeah I genuinely have no clue how someone can legitimately throw shit at Sullivan for "playing worse players in the bottom-6 when there were better ones in camp or in Wilkes" when Bylsma made Craig Adams an ironman on the 4th line despite him going an entire season without scoring a goal.

If Craig Adams doesn't tickle your fancy, how about Tanner Glass? How about Eric Godard? How about how he continued to play guys like Engelland and Bortuzo (who weren't even bad) over Despres? What about Taylor Pyatt? What about Chuck Kobasew? Bylsma played Brian Gibbons as a top-6 winger with Crosby for like half a season.

I don't think Shero did him many favors with giving him decent alternatives, but to say that Bylsma was better about that than Sullivan is just showing you became a fan after Bylsma was fired.

 

[Turin]

I think the whole "Sullivan vs Bylsma" debate is purely just this board being fed up with Sullivan overstaying his welcome by like 4 years. Had he been fired in 2021 like he should have, no one would be looking back today asking if Sullivan or Bylsma was the better coach.

It's not even close. I would put money down that Sullivan is at least 20 IQ points higher than Bylsma.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

The boost you get from Crosby and Malkin being younger and their control over games is ridiculously exaggerated here. The Oilers had some playoff misses with McDavid and Draisaitl.

The Pens got 58 points in the standings when Sid had 100 points in his rookie year. 2nd last in the league. He couldn't change shit about their fate, much like we've missed the playoffs 3 years in a row with Sid playing all the games and putting up over 90 points a year.

The margins between their younger and older selves doesn't hold a candle to the collective strength of the rest of the roster. That's especially the case when it comes to key positions, like the blue line.

Bylsma did not have super deep teams outside of very short windows (like 2013). He just milked them in the regular season for all they're worth.

2012 Penguins had by far the best roster in the league.

Saying the difference between Crosby/Malkin now vs. their primes is overstated is just a ridiculous opinion. We all watched them. They dominated the game whenever they were on the ice. They are just not at that level nowadays. And don't compare them to those losers on Edmonton, I'm guessing they aren't going to bed making the playoffs in their late 30s either.

And the Penguins blue line has been deteriorating since 2018, from 2011 on Bylsma had a very good group of Dmen. There's just too much revisionist history going on on your part.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Remember Chris Conner?

FFS.

 

[Turin]

2012 Penguins had by far the best roster in the league.

Saying the difference between Crosby/Malkin now vs. their primes is overstated is just a ridiculous opinion. We all watched them. They dominated the game whenever they were on the ice. They are just not at that level nowadays. And don't compare them to those losers on Edmonton, I'm guessing they aren't going to bed making the playoffs in their late 30s either.

And the Penguins blue line has been deteriorating since 2018, from 2011 on Bylsma had a very good group of Dmen. There's just too much revisionist history going on on your part.

I vividly remember the tale of the tape with the Philly series.

Pens advantage goals
Pens advantage goals against
Pens advantage powerplay
Pens advantage penalty kill
Best players: Pens

Series result: Pens lose their f***ing minds for no reason and lose in 6.


2012 was the worst coaching job I've ever seen in hockey. Couldn't adjust tactically, couldn't control a single player. Couldn't do anything but stand there and chew gum while Granato yells at the other team.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Just drove by the arena and it appears Josh Yohe has handcuffed himself to the entrance and refuses to leave until Mike Sullivan is immediately reinstated.

It's absolutely hilarious that he writes about coaching candidates and somehow misses that Dubas literally doesn’t want to consider Kirk as the next coach because he wants him to continue developing as a coach in wbs. But yeah “coaching candidate - Kirk MacDonald” lol.

It’s interesting to see more vacancies in coaching. This is the most in a while.

Ducks
Hawks
Bruins
Canucks
Flyers
Kraken
Penguins

 

[SEALBound]

I remember the days Dan Bylsma would start Tanner Glass on the top line hoping he would hit someone to "set the tone of the game".

Bylsma had a better roster, Sullivan was a better overall actual coach. Both overstayed their welcome here.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I vividly remember the tale of the tape with the Philly series.

Pens advantage goals
Pens advantage goals against
Pens advantage powerplay
Pens advantage penalty kill
Best players: Pens

Series result: Pens lose their f***ing minds for no reason and lose in 6.


2012 was the worst coaching job I've ever seen in hockey. Couldn't adjust tactically, couldn't control a single player. Couldn't do anything but stand there and chew gum while Granato yells at the other team.

The Pens pissed away the Rangers series even with a third stringer because they absolutely couldn’t stay composed if their life depended on it. Pettersson freaking out about his f***ing helmet and not skating off immediately which led to Zibanejad scoring. Or E-Rod losing his mind for a dirty hit which the refs f***ed him over on but it resulted in him taking a dumb penalty and boom another loss. Also Sullivan not adjusting even a tiny bit against them and got clowned hard.

I would say that is just as bad as the Philly series. Sullivan has a bunch. Jobbed by the Habs. Owned by the Isles. Shit on by the Caps.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

If you're saying that Sullivan was worse about playing bad players over better players than Bylsma, that's just you admitting you weren't a Penguins fan when Bylsma was the coach.

This one player invalidates the entire argument:

People here say Sullivan was married to shitty players because he played Harkins for 45 games in 2023-2024 without him getting a goal. Dan Bylsma played Craig Adams for 82 games in 2009-2010 where he put up 0 goals. Then he played him for another 292 games after that.

I've brought up specific instances of Bylsma's stay here like 10000 times, and I still have to suffer idiotic comments like this. Do you have amnesia from too much internet or what? You were part of those GDT's, you know?

You guys are crazy annoying and arrogant here, regarding other users. Everyone plays psychologist, despite having no talent for it. Like none. 95% of the guesses regarding myself I've heard here have been wrong. There were the occasional correct ones, from smart people like Peat or Solz.
I would even tell you guys if you were right, since I've always been honest here and don't care about protecting my pride. Nobody hates me more than me. But you guys are just hopeless in this area.

I never said Bylsma didn't do the same thing. But Sullivan hurt himself more with lineup decisions than Bylsma did, and he also squeezed more out of less throughout the roster.

Just because I wasn't on this shitty board before Sullivan was the coach, does not mean I wasn't watching the team. I just was on reddit and the main Pens board, and came later. All there is to it.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Recency bias. Do a year by year comparison of the wingers and D-men. Sullivan also happily chose to use worse players in the bottom-six, when better ones were available out of camp and in Wilkes.
He just got less out of players than Bylsma did, relative to their career average level.

2010-11 & 11-12:
Letang-Orpik
Martin-Michalek
Niskanen-Engelland

2013:
Letang-Orpik
Martin-Niskanen
Eaton-Engelland (Murray in playoffs)

2014:
Letang-Orpik
Martin-Niskanen
Maatta-Engelland

Please tell me which Penguins rosters under Sullivan had a better group of Dmen?

09 and 10 the Penguins did not have a great defense but 09 still had Gonchar and solid defensive guys.