Confirmed with Link: Penguins and Mike Sullivan part ways

Dan Bylsma (with Pens)

Regular season: .668.
The WORST season we had with him was .616 (101 points). Never even came to missing the playoffs, not even when Malkin and Crosby missed half the season in the same year.
Playoffs: .551

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Mike Sullivan

Regular season: .602
Had better rosters than Bylsma on average. Missed the playoffs 3 times, including multiple years with healthy cores.
Playoffs: .537. 5-16 since 2019.

The most overrated goddamn coach I've seen in my life. He had front-loaded great results and then coasted on it for like 7 years. He's not even better than Bylsma, who people notoriously mock.

Best coach in Penguins history? f*** off. We had Bowman.

Damn dude... we agree like once every 20 opinions but this is pretty on point lol.

I realize the Penguins haven't had the most glorious coaches in the world but this "best coach in franchise history" stuff is a little weird to me when Herbie and Bowman have both passed through here. Just because Sullivan stuck around for way too long doesn't make him amazing. It means he stuck around for a really long time.
 
Dan Bylsma (with Pens)

Regular season: .668.
The WORST season we had with him was .616 (101 points). Never even came to missing the playoffs, not even when Malkin and Crosby missed half the season in the same year.
Playoffs: .551

---

Mike Sullivan

Regular season: .602
Had better rosters than Bylsma on average. Missed the playoffs 3 times, including multiple years with healthy cores.
Playoffs: .537. 5-16 since 2019.

The most overrated goddamn coach I've seen in my life. He had front-loaded great results and then coasted on it for like 7 years. He's not even better than Bylsma, who people notoriously mock.

Best coach in Penguins history? f*** off. We had Bowman.
While that's all well and good, Bylsma had Crosby and Malkin in their absolute primes with some pretty loaded teams. I don't think it's a 100% fair comparison.

edit: All I'm trying to say is that they are closer to being equal than one is to being clearly better than the other. The situations were just different.
 
Damn dude... we agree like once every 20 opinions but this is pretty on point lol.

I realize the Penguins haven't had the most glorious coaches in the world but this "best coach in franchise history" stuff is a little weird to me when Herbie and Bowman have both passed through here. Just because Sullivan stuck around for way too long doesn't make him amazing. It means he stuck around for a really long time.
PLus, you know, Bob Johnson?
 
JT Miller's gone, EP40 is on rocky ground, Tocchet's done with that org's shit, Quinn Hughes seems really interested in playing in NJ with his two bothers once his deal's up.

Man, Vancouver's f***ed, huh? :laugh:
dave-chappelle.gif
 
I don't think Disco is a BETTER coach. That WOULD be a silly assertion. Or at least very disingenuous.

But it's weird that one is considered clownshoes and the other is this misunderstood secret genius that's gonna show us all, dagnabbit.

Funny thought but MAYBE at one point Disco was also considered the same as Sullivan is now and time has taken care of THAT opinion. Perhaps none of us should be SO sure. Though to be fair I'm very open to being wrong, here.
 
Comparing Bylsma and Sullivan while completely ignoring that Bylsma had Crosby, Malkin and Letang at their best while Sullivan didn't is one of the most disingenuous arguments I've seen on here.

Let's be real: Bylsma was not a better coach than Sullivan.
If Sullivan was fired when he should've been fired, people's opinions of him would be drastically different. Every coach runs their course. Even the greatest of them. Some go on to other teams and start winning again. This isn't something new.
 
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The thing that sucks about comparing Bylsma and Sullivan is that they're both shit coaches. Bylsma's a f***ing moron. Sullivan may be a smart coach, but his ego torpedoes any and all smarts inside that colossal head of his. In the end, they take different paths, but they both arrive at the same destination; dogshit coaches.
 
The thing that sucks about comparing Bylsma and Sullivan is that they're both shit coaches. Bylsma's a f***ing moron. Sullivan may be a smart coach, but his ego torpedoes any and all smarts inside that colossal head of his. In the end, they take different paths, but they both arrive at the same destination; dogshit coaches.

I guess what I'm driving at is what actual evidence do we have that Sullivan IS a "great coach that just got stale?"

Like people are pushing back on this but they aren't actually bringing much in the way of receipts to me, here.

We have literally a like year and a half of evidence going on a decade ago and a bunch of short, sporadic bursts of competency, since. That isn't much to go on, guys.
 
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The thing that sucks about comparing Bylsma and Sullivan is that they're both shit coaches. Bylsma's a f***ing moron. Sullivan may be a smart coach, but his ego torpedoes any and all smarts inside that colossal head of his. In the end, they take different paths, but they both arrive at the same destination; dogshit coaches.

I think that's the crux of the issue tbh. If he got fired when he should've got fired, he'd have moved on to a different team and had a fresh start with a team hearing his ideas for the first time. His message got stale, and he refused to change his style with the players he was given. That never ends well.

Those kinds of coaches can' be lifers. They need to move from team to team.
 
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I guess what I'm driving at is what actual evidence do we have that Sullivan IS a "great coach that just got stale?"

Like people are pushing back on this but they aren't actually bring much in the way of receipts to me, here.
Yeah, I think the real comparable between the two is that they happened to be "breath of fresh air after a stifling predecessor at HC" guys who happened to luck their way into a core of HHOF players with huge chips on their shoulders.
 
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Yeah, I think the real comparable between the two is that they happened to be "breath of fresh air after a stifling predecessor at HC" guys who happened to luck their way into a core of HHOF players with huge chips on their shoulders.

Very true! Sullivan DID provide that relief same as Disco before him. And that's not nothing.

But like... I could just hire a comedian or a good conversationalist that knows f***-all about the sport and he could have probably done about the same thing yeah? Just have some guy come in and be like "lol f*** that guy anyway what a uptight dork amirite?!? Lets go play some ice whiffleball!" and go from there? Like clearly I'm exaggerating but by how much?
 
I guess what I'm driving at is what actual evidence do we have that Sullivan IS a "great coach that just got stale?"

Like people are pushing back on this but they aren't actually bringing much in the way of receipts to me, here.

We have literally a like year and a half of evidence going on a decade ago and a bunch of short, sporadic bursts of competency, since. That isn't much to go on, guys.
I think without more data of his overall coaching career, we can't really do anything but make assumptions.

Yeah, I'm making shit up without evidence because there really isn't any at this point. But that doesn't mean it's not a heavily educated guess lol. That's my read on him as a man and a coach. Time will tell.

Did I want him gone? Yeah. Did I want him gone like 3 years ago? Hell yeah. Do I think he's some shit coach that can't to good elsewhere? No. There's plenty of coaches that go around the carousel and do just as much and then outstay their welcome after a few years.
 
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Dan Bylsma (with Pens)

Regular season: .668.
The WORST season we had with him was .616 (101 points). Never even came to missing the playoffs, not even when Malkin and Crosby missed half the season in the same year.
Playoffs: .551

---

Mike Sullivan

Regular season: .602
Had better rosters than Bylsma on average. Missed the playoffs 3 times, including multiple years with healthy cores.
Playoffs: .537. 5-16 since 2019.

The most overrated goddamn coach I've seen in my life. He had front-loaded great results and then coasted on it for like 7 years. He's not even better than Bylsma, who people notoriously mock.

Best coach in Penguins history? f*** off. We had Bowman.
Mike Sullivan did not have better rosters. This is nonsense.
 
I think without more data of his overall coaching career, we can't really do anything but make assumptions.

Yeah, I'm making shit up without evidence because there really isn't any at this point. But that doesn't mean it's not a heavily educated guess lol. That's my read on him as a man and a coach. Time will tell.

Did I want him gone? Yeah. Did I want him gone like 3 years ago? Hell yeah. Do I think he's some shit coach that can't to good elsewhere? No. There's plenty of coaches that go around the carousel and do just as much and then outstay their welcome after a few years.

Fair enough - I legit appreciate you actually addressing the point.

I exaggerate to paint a picture and often as an attempt to prove a point or maybe make people laugh a little, sometimes. If you got me right down to it... do I think he's a "shit" coach... no... I do not. At least in comparison to most of his peers... which is a low bar to be clear. But I don't see this top 3-5 coach that just went stale that everyone else does. I think he's like... the Tristan Jarry of coaches kinda. His highs can be pretty high but his flaws are always going to bring him down. And he just doesn't have the MIND for it which is funny because that's what everyone cites when it comes to his so-called ability as a coach is his mind for the game but like... where is that? He has barely adjusted his system in years, he seems extremely bothered by actually trying to INSTRUCT young players and the entire general concept seems to be not bothering to hide what he's doing and dare the other team to stop it.

This is a guy who literally bristled and implied that HE knew what was best so the details don't matter when queried about his approach and tactics just last year. That doesn't sound like a guy who is particularly knowledgeable or if he is isn't any good at communicating it. Which... is kind of a big mark against as a coach.

I could go on but I think we all get it at this point. Like you said... time will tell. I'll be here if I'm wrong.
 
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For real. I don't get it. Both had B2B Cup Finals, Sullivan benefited from having a Sid and Geno at the top of their game instead of being a few seasons into the league. And yet, one is the great hero of our times and the other is a punchline.
Crosby and Malkin were both past their peaks when Sullivan took over. Bylsma inherited a 21 yo Crosby and a 22 yo Malkin
 
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Very true! Sullivan DID provide that relief same as Disco before him. And that's not nothing.

But like... I could just hire a comedian or a good conversationalist that knows f***-all about the sport and he could have probably done about the same thing yeah? Just have some guy come in and be like "lol f*** that guy anyway what a uptight dork amirite?!? Lets go play some ice whiffleball!" and go from there? Like clearly I'm exaggerating but by how much?
I've been saying for years that coaches are overrated as all hell when it comes to being tacticians. :laugh: The best coaches are just charismatic and adept at navigating the extremely tempestuous egos of a room full of millionaire athletes. Sure, Xs and Os are a big part of it, but by and large the best guys are just babysitters. :laugh:
 
I know it's been a thing few years for the Pens, but let's not do anything crazy like shit-talking Robert Lang.
 

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