Confirmed with Link: Penguins and Mike Sullivan part ways

[CheckingLineCenter]

didn’t all the CBJ players hate Vincent?

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

It’s about f***ing TIIIIIME!!!!

Let’s gooooooooooooooo

 

[TimmyD]

Based on Dubas talking up coaches doing well in their first head coaching stint, as well as needing until June to potentially make a hire, here are some potential candidates:

• David Carle, University of Denver head coach - two-time NCAA champ. Young coach. Denver is a powerhouse. Also two-time gold medal coach of USA World Junior team.
• Jeff Halpern, Tampa assistant - Big role in Tampa's success under Jon Cooper. Runs power play. Former NHL player.
• Mitch Love, Washington assistant - Former minor league enforcer was a successful coach for Saskatoon in WHL and then as Calgary's AHL head coach. Joined Spencer Carberry's staff in Washington to coach the defensemen.
• Marc Savard, Toronto assistant - Had his NHL career cut short due to concussions, was a former head coach in the OHL before joining Calgary and then Toronto as an assistant
• Joel Ward, Vegas assistant - Longtime former NHL forward has been a big part of Vegas' success since joining the club at the AHL level in 2020 and now as an NHL assistant.
• Todd Nelson, Hershey head coach - Hershey is one of the top teams in the AHL over the last few years. Nelson has blended youth with experienced minor leaguers. Considered a power play guru. Brief stint as Edmonton's interim head coach.
• Marco Sturm, Ontario head coach - Sturm has been tabbed as one of the top AHL coaching candidates out there. Also has experience as an NHL assistant. Could be in the running for the Anaheim gig
• Neil Graham, Texas head coach - I haven't seen him listed much, and he's still young at 38, but Graham has played a role in helping to develop some of the Stars' young talent over the last few years as the Texas AHL head coach. Previously an ECHL head coach.
• Pascal Vincent, Laval head coach - He had one year with Columbus following the Mike Babcock debacle, and then the Blue Jackets cleaned house. He had a long stint as head coach and GM in the QMJHL, then in the AHL, then as an assistant. Probably deserves a legit shot somewhere.
• Manny Malhotra, Abbotsford head coach - Doing well as first year head coach. Dubas hired him in Toronto as an assistant back in 2020.
• Jay Pandolfo, Boston University head coach - Had to throw a Boston guy in here. Pandolfo is doing well as Boston U's head coach after initially spending his post-playing career in the Bruins' development staff and as an NHL assistant.

I hope so, because this is a pretty intriguing list that I really like.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I feel like people sometimes give too much grace to Sullivan and the Penguins in general for that NYR series.

Yeah I mean... I get it. The goaltending situation was untenable and Sid Crosby getting brained by that (now minor league) troglodyte sucks. But there were plenty of unforced errors in that series that had nothing to do with goaltending or Crosby's injury. And a 3-1 series lead is a 3-1 series lead, ya know.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

As a NYR fan, I do NOT want Sullivan to be their next head coach, but he likely will be. He's worse than Peter Laviolette in terms of not playing younger players and allowing them to develop properly.

From what I've head/read, Sullivan never adjusts how the team plays; maybe someone here can clarify/elaborate on this.

He's just riding Sidney Crosby's coattails since they win the Cup in 2017.

You are correct. Sullivan was frustrating for us for a long, long time. Rarely, if ever, adjusted to anything. He also believes more in hierarchy than meritocracy. In other words, if Bryan Rust is RW1, then he is RW1. No questions asked. Nobody can move into that spot, ever.

He values penalty-killing and shot-blocking above anything else that goes on with a team on the ice. He loves players who resemble himself...hard-working journeymen who sucked balls on offense.

His idea of being creative during training camp with lines was trying Vinnie Hinostroza on LW with Sidney Crosby and Bryan Rust.

I already hate the team he decides to join.

 

[DesertPenguin]

The transition comment was interesting. Are we going full tank now?

More like Dubas wants to start pouring young guys from WBS into the lineup to see if they're ready and put them in prominent roles, regardless of whether it gives us the best chance to win that night, and Sully physically can't do that. He's wired to win the game that night, player development be damned. So I think you're going to see young guys get longer leashes to figure it out before being banished. I support that 1000%.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I feel like people sometimes give too much grace to Sullivan and the Penguins in general for that NYR series.

Yeah I mean... I get it. The goaltending situation was untenable and Sid Crosby getting brained by that (now minor league) troglodyte sucks. But there were plenty of unforced errors in that series that had nothing to do with goaltending or Crosby's injury. And a 3-1 series lead is a 3-1 series lead, ya know.

Also playing physical is part of the game. Refusing to acknowledge that probably sunk our chances more than anything else.

 

[Turin]

I think Pascal Vincent is another option I would really like to pursue from the AHL. He was the head coach of Columbus that was put in after Babcock got fired, which didn't go very well for him but he was set up for failure. Since then, he was hired by Laval as their head coach and led a massive turnaround for their AHL team. They went from 74 points to 101 points this year and finished as the regular season winner, with Vincent winning his second AHL coach of the year.

His history is pretty extensive, with him spending a lot of time in the QMJHL as well:

• 1999-2008: Head coach and GM of the Cape Brenton Screaming Eagles, won both GM and coach of the year in separate years
• 2008-2011: Head coach and GM of the Montreal Junior Hockey Club, improved them from a bad expansion team to one of the best QMJHL teams in only 3 years (before that team folded)
• 2011-2016: Assistant coach for the Winnipeg Jets
• 2016-2021: Head coach of the Manitoba Moose, won the AHL's outstanding coach in 2017-2018
• 2021-2023: Assistant coach for the Columbus Blue Jackets
• 2023-2024: Interim head coach of the Columbus Blue Jackets
• 2024-2025: Head coach of the Laval Rocket

He's had extensive success in both the AHL and QMJHL, and Laval is in a nice spot to go on a run this year too. Really interesting guy to keep an eye on.

NOOOOOO

Hell no. His job with CBus is the worst I’ve ever seen. Dude was horrible with their young players.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Also playing physical is part of the game. Refusing to acknowledge that probably sunk our chances more than anything else.

It's also something the Penguins REALLY should be prepared for by now.

Everyone knows the whistles get VERY sparse in the playoffs. And if your idea of replacing Sid Crosby in the lineup is immediately GET JEFF CARTER IN THERE then you can f*** right off and you deserve to lose. That has nothing to do with goaltending.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

didn’t all the CBJ players hate Vincent?

It is a fair question. Patrik Laine and Vincent butted heads, for sure. But Laine is one of those players who reputation precedes him, so I suppose we would need more. The turnaround under Evason has been incredible, but this might be one of those Therrien > Bylsma situations.

Vincent was a rising star in the coaching ranks before CBJ, and now one year later he is the top dog in the AHL. So, I think he deserves consideration.

 

[OnMyOwn]

 

[DesertPenguin]

Sullivan’s demands had to be something to do with trying to make a more aggressive push this year which doesn’t seem to be the plan at all. Or something so ridiculous he knew they would let him go.

Or bringing back Chad Ruhwedel.

Yeah Im guessing demands is more like Sully laying out his vision for team development and the moves needed to make that happen, and that totally not aligning with GMKD's vision to do the same. I could see Sully wanting us to do 2023-2024 all over again picking up guys like Graves, Eller, Acciari etc, and Dubas won't entertain adding anyone to the club older than 26. Those aren't demands. He didn't threaten to resign over it, but I could see that being the split in philosophy that convinced Dubas it's time for a change.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Also Rangers fans... who is your worst center?

Because prepare to see him in OT a lot instead of one of your far better players. And no... I don't know why, either.

EDIT: lol MM trying SO hard to create a narrative, there. f***ing retire, man. Laughingstock.

 

[Factorial]

So like... from what I'm gathering here Dubas is kinda confirming what most of us already knew... that Sullivan was more or less calling the shots on player acquisitions and FA at least during KD's tenure? I mean to me that seems pretty obvious but for those of you who were like "THE GM GMs AND THE COACH COACHES DUMMY!" then there ya go.

What did Dubas say about this? Have a time from the video?

 

[SEALBound]

One thing I thought was interesting that I didn't see posted here yet was when Dubas basically said that he believes in giving a new head coach a blank slate so all of the assistants and goalie coach were free to pursue other opportunities or play the "wait and see" game. Certainly no job is safe, which is a good thing.

I am willing to bet Dubas isn't lying that Sullivan didn't have "demands" or "non-negotiables." But Sullivan did probably go into those meetings saying "we need to address this and this and this and get better and I really believe we can compete for the playoffs next year" and generally giving roster construction input and Dubas was probably like yeeeeeeeah okay time to pull the plug on this whole thing.

I believe that to be a fair "the truth is somewhere in the middle" assessment. I can't imagine Sullivan didn't have SOME "suggestions" or "recommendations" about how to pursue next year with that goal in mind. I mean, hell, any of us would likely have "demands" when talking about next year if the goal was to get back to the playoffs. I might be more concerned if Sullivan DIDN'T have any demands/recommendations/suggestions/etc. In reality, that's his job, especially when talking to the GM during your end-of-year interview.

Based on Dubas talking up coaches doing well in their first head coaching stint, as well as needing until June to potentially make a hire, here are some potential candidates:

• David Carle, University of Denver head coach - two-time NCAA champ. Young coach. Denver is a powerhouse. Also two-time gold medal coach of USA World Junior team.
• Marco Sturm, Ontario head coach - Sturm has been tabbed as one of the top AHL coaching candidates out there. Also has experience as an NHL assistant. Could be in the running for the Anaheim gig.

Good list. I like these two with preference going to Carle. This new coach needs to be able to connect with the next generation of players. He's not there to coach Sid and Geno and get them over the hump. He's there for McG, Koivunen, Pickering, Brunicke, etc.

I think Torts in Philly is a VERY good cautionary tale about what disasters loom when you pair an old-school coach with new-school players.

If you asked me two weeks ago who I'd like, I would have said Rick Tocchet but honestly, the same issues that plagued Sullivan and Torts might continue if it's Tocchet.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

NOOOOOO

Hell no. His job with CBus is the worst I’ve ever seen. Dude was horrible with their young players.

Laval is thriving this season, and they have prospects down there. Dobes has risen quickly as a goaltender. Reinbacher and Mailloux are thriving on defense. Owen Beck is thriving up front.

I don't know, I could be convinced to like Vincent if he is the choice.

 

[Pancakes]

For all his well documented flaws/failures in the past however many years Sully did still ultimately get us two cups. And he was a great coach during those two cups.

Did he get his head firmly up his own ass after that? Absolutely. But most fanbases would give up their firstborn for b2b cups.

I think twenty years from now that will be Sullivan's legacy moreso than the failures afterwards.

But he was long overdue to be canned, so this is nice.

Thanks for the good memories Sully. The bad ones....not so much.

 

[Empoleon8771]

NOOOOOO

Hell no. His job with CBus is the worst I’ve ever seen. Dude was horrible with their young players.

I'm reading an article now that goes both ways:

Vincent’s handling of the Blue Jackets roster didn’t always make sense to me, and that was probably abundantly clear with the questions that were asked and the stories that were written about all of the curious line compositions, the ice time allotment, etc.

Future No. 1 center Adam Fantilli playing on the wing? Young defenseman David Jiricek averaging 14 1/2 minutes per game before he was sent to the minors? Highly-skilled winger Kent Johnson drawing only 13:32 before he suffered a season-ending surgery? Defenseman Andrew Peeke benched for weeks at a time?

Vincent didn’t seem to realize that the Blue Jackets committed to a youth movement three years earlier, that getting the young players’ feet wet in the NHL was just as important — maybe more important — than the Blue Jackets trying to win every game in a season that had no hope of the postseason.

Not only did the Blue Jackets finish 27-43-12, but Fantilli and Jiricek still have no idea what it’s like to check Edmonton’s Connor McDavid. In the one game Fantilli played against the Oilers, he was switched to the wing, while Jiricek was either in the minors or a healthy scratch when Columbus played Edmonton.

At the same time, Vincent deserves more than a little respect. Even in a difficult season, he never stopped coaching the Blue Jackets in the way he thought was best, the way that would serve both the players and the organization best in the long run.

And it wasn’t just the young players having to earn their ice time or being sheltered from difficult matchups.

Defenseman Damon Severson, who signed an eight-year (gulp!) contract last offseason, was benched in the third period of his third game in Columbus. Patrik Laine was made a healthy scratch in November, which he called the most “embarrassing” moment of his career. Johnny Gaudreau was benched, Elvis Merzlikins was temporarily dropped to the No. 3 role in a three-goalie rotation and Jack Roslovic started the season as a healthy scratch, then a fourth-liner.

Vincent had to know that, even with a two-year contract, his long-term outlook in Columbus was sketchy at best, so he went about his job the way he always promised himself he would if and when he earned an NHL chance to be a head coach.

This looks more like an accountability thing where he'll hold anyone even vets to standards or he'll bench them.

 

[Ugene Magic]

So it begins...

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

What did Dubas say about this? Have a time from the video?

I did not watch. Will have to check it out, later.

My impression from the way everyone is talking is that Dubas was quite critical of Sullivan's style of player and that he wanted to change gears in that regard. That tells me that Sullivan has been the prime mover in free agency and trades for quite a while and really that should be no surprise from a team that has given him a outsized amount of control over their direction for many years.

 

[Coastal Kev]

So the Pens get zero compensation if Sully signs elsewhere?

 

[SEALBound]

It is a fair question. Patrik Laine and Vincent butted heads, for sure. But Laine is one of those players who reputation precedes him, so I suppose we would need more. The turnaround under Evason has been incredible, but this might be one of those Therrien > Bylsma situations.

Vincent was a rising star in the coaching ranks before CBJ, and now one year later he is the top dog in the AHL. So, I think he deserves consideration.

That's fair. I think a good coach is one that is self aware. I don't think Therrien was when it came to Sid and Geno but I think Bylsma and Sullivan were. These are two generational talents that require and have earned a certain degree of freedom. Certainly to the point where they can be trusted to drive the bus.

Laine isn't at that level but maybe thought he was so I might giver deference to Vincent there. That said, sometimes it's just not a match. But I'd be willing to give him the look.

 

[DesertPenguin]

To be fair, Sullivan isn't the reason that they've needed to be revamping the defense in the past few years.

Sullivan was probably very happy with the 2021 defense when it had Dumounlin-Letang, Pettersson-Marino and Matheson-Ceci.

I'd take that defense, at their ages today, over the fuster-cluck we have presently assembled. And that defense was not good enough either.

 

[Zirakzigil]

So the Pens get zero compensation if Sully signs elsewhere?

No but actually yes. If he signs elsewhere they are no longer on the hook for his salary. Its a little complicated, but basically, if his new salary covers all or more of his previous salary, Pens walk away from owing him anything.

 

[Coastal Kev]

No but actually yes. If he signs elsewhere they are no longer on the hook for his salary. Its a little complicated, but basically, if his new salary covers all or more of his previous salary, Pens walk away from owing him anything.

I wonder why Dubi couldn't work a trade........... Oh well.. He's gone and ME VERY HAPPY