Salary Cap: Penguins 2013 (and beyond) lineup discussion | Contract chart in Post #1

[KIRK]

I want him to do something. Concur
Expecting Bylsma to play TK in the top 6. I want to not concur so bad. I think I have to concur though

Well, I think it's safe to say that Martin will have some stiff competition for preseason favorite as top whipping boy.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Just give that TOP 6 chance to the guy who really deserves it. It´s Bennett, not Tangradi. Beau is clearly better right now and difference in potential is even bigger there. I´m sick of watching Tangradi. If not Bennett, then even Jeffrey would be better option over Big Dog.

Tangradi is just awful this season and seems like perennial AHLer.

I think there has to be some consideration of the role that needs filling. Let Bennett develop until he is really ready. Let Tangradi try his hand at being that third guy on a line filled with talent.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Well, I think it's safe to say that Martin will have some stiff competition for preseason favorite as top whipping boy.

this place is going to be a mess. This roster is kind of a mess.

 

[JTG]

I wouldnt the way hes looked the last 15 games for the WBS

And if they do, i bet its to give him one last chance.

I'll be real honest with anyone who is putting much stock in the performance of some of our legitimate prospects in WBS...WBS sucks badly. You put guys like Tangradi, Bennett, Despres, and Morrow with NHL caliber players, I think you'd see better performance.

This WBS needs an infusion of some good veteran AHL talent to help these young guys coming in.

Tangradi isn't on his "last chance." In order to get a "last chance" he would need a "first chance."

I don't know why, but I think this summer Geno signs a 8 year, 69.6M deal and has an understanding with the organization that he can have 8.7M a year for another four years when that deal expires. At that point, he'd be like 37, so he may do it or may go play in the KHL. Either way, I think he keeps the 'I get what Sid gets for a cap hit' thing out of respect for Sid and to help the team. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he insists otherwise. Maybe the team does a little more.

I don't know if you can operate with a gentlemen's agreement in today's sports landscape, nor would I want to make deals like that. I'd rather just pay the guy what he's worth, which, if he's taking the same deal as Sid is 10.8 million, and then deal with what we have to deal with.

That whole "I get what Sid gets" was great when they could be signed to the same deal. It's a completely different ball game now. He can't get what Sid gets. Sid is getting the years, so since Geno can't get the years, he should get the money.

I don't know what the deal will be with how contracts are structured, but maybe something creative could be done there.

I'd prefer that to Kennedy with them, but he has blown chunks the last dozen or so games in WBS.

Personally, I'd be happy if Shero found a way to deal for Kulemin and played him with Geno and Neal. Start Sid with Kunitz and Duper and, when the deadline comes, make the big play for a guy like Iginla for Sid and Kunitz, sliding Duper to a third line with Cooke and Sutter.

I know it's a source of disagreement here, but I want Sid and Geno both playing with a pair of good wingers each, maybe if it means an extra question on defense or on the third or fourth lines. Sid and Geno are the Pens advantage. I'd rather exploit it than neutralize it as we have since the cup runs.

I do think Shero will swing a deal for another winger. Kulemin could be a great target. I'd also like Setoguchi.

A Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis line is something I'd feel completely comfortable throwing out there against any single top line in the league.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'll be real honest with anyone who is putting much stock in the performance of some of our legitimate prospects in WBS...WBS sucks badly. You put guys like Tangradi, Bennett, Despres, and Morrow with NHL caliber players, I think you'd see better performance.

This WBS needs an infusion of some good veteran AHL talent to help these young guys coming in.

Tangradi isn't on his "last chance." In order to get a "last chance" he would need a "first chance."

Agreed.

I do think Shero will swing a deal for another winger. Kulemin could be a great target. I'd also like Setoguchi.

A Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis line is something I'd feel completely comfortable throwing out there against any single top line in the league.

My god is that a beautiful third line. Dupuis on the third line is like a dream.

 

[BHD]

That top-4 after switching Niskanen with Engelland strikes me as not talented enough. Either way, I think we'll see a lot of juggling on defense for a while.

Yeah, I expect that to happen.

 

[JTG]

I think if Paul Martin would return to how he played in Jersey, he'd be much more likable here. Just really smart, simple, positionally sound hockey. It seemed last season that he tried to step out of what he's good at, and that's when he got in trouble. I think back to last season against the Isles...he just made John Tavares' life completely miserable, and totally shut the guy down. It was just an impeccable defensive performance, and that game stands out to me as to what Paul Martin can do against really good players in this league.

Maybe pairing him with a guy like Niskanen or Letang would be a good thing. He handles the puck less and worries strictly about defense more. Granted, he'll never live up to his salary, but that is what it is. I can't personally see us buying him out, unless he just completely sucks in every single facet of the game, which, even last year, he didn't do.

People say he had a completely **** year, but in honesty, he had a really good 30-40 game stretch sandwiched between a horrendous beginning and a terrible playoff.

 

[Will Hunting]

I'll be real honest with anyone who is putting much stock in the performance of some of our legitimate prospects in WBS...WBS sucks badly. You put guys like Tangradi, Bennett, Despres, and Morrow with NHL caliber players, I think you'd see better performance.

I understand, that´s a fair point probably. Only difference there, but a big one. I have seen a great performance by Bennett in that awful offensive team. He was the only one who showed that he deserves more than playing in awful AHL team. I just don´t understand why not to give a fair chance to him. I think he´s ready to compete, he has that talent to understand fast offensive game which is required when playing with Crosby/Malkin.

 

[#66]

Well, I think it's safe to say that Martin will have some stiff competition for preseason favorite as top whipping boy.

Disco is running a close 2nd.

 

[KIRK]

I'll be real honest with anyone who is putting much stock in the performance of some of our legitimate prospects in WBS...WBS sucks badly. You put guys like Tangradi, Bennett, Despres, and Morrow with NHL caliber players, I think you'd see better performance.

This WBS needs an infusion of some good veteran AHL talent to help these young guys coming in.

Tangradi isn't on his "last chance." In order to get a "last chance" he would need a "first chance."



I don't know if you can operate with a gentlemen's agreement in today's sports landscape, nor would I want to make deals like that. I'd rather just pay the guy what he's worth, which, if he's taking the same deal as Sid is 10.8 million, and then deal with what we have to deal with.

That whole "I get what Sid gets" was great when they could be signed to the same deal. It's a completely different ball game now. He can't get what Sid gets. Sid is getting the years, so since Geno can't get the years, he should get the money.

I don't know what the deal will be with how contracts are structured, but maybe something creative could be done there.



I do think Shero will swing a deal for another winger. Kulemin could be a great target. I'd also like Setoguchi.

A Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis line is something I'd feel completely comfortable throwing out there against any single top line in the league.

1. I know it wasn't a comment for me, but that's a good point about Tangradi. The only real 'chance' he got was where Geno was on the other wing and Hillary Duff's husband was the center (that one ranks right up there with Christensen centering Sid in my mind in the annals of Penguins coaching lore). Maybe if you stick him on LW with Geno and Neal he can do some of the things that Kunitz did. Yeah, you lose a little speed, but I think he'd prove to be better in the offensive zone in battles for the puck/controlling the puck. Maybe he resembles a little bit how Malone worked in the dynamic with Geno and Sykora. I'm not banking on it or even expecting it, but that would be the hope.

2. You may be right about the whole 'gentleman's agreement' thing. Then again, if Geno signed a 8 year deal for 8.7M per year, he'd be 35 (almost 36) when the deal expires. Maybe he'd think that's enough, figuring he can go to the KHL at that point or resign for 8.7M a year with the Pens (assuming there's an unenforceable understanding).

3. What I'd hope to see from Tangradi (or any linemate) with Geno and Neal is why I really, really want Kulemin. Problem is that he's probably going to cost you Bennett or Harrington. I think he's worth it (a) because I think he'd be the perfect complement, given his size and style, with Geno and Neal and (b) because I don't want Sid/Geno to do with less because maybe the prospect was the best player in the deal (which in three or so years he may be). Acquire a guy like Kulemin, then make the big deal at the deadline for a winger for Sid and Kunitz, slotting Dupuis down with Sutter and Cooke. I think back to the Philly series. The Flyers threw everything at the Kunitz-Geno-Neal line, and right fully so because Sid had no real help. I personally think, for as bad as the defense and Flower were in that series, the Pens win if Sid also had two legit wingers. I don't know, I just think, if the Pens have to have questions going into the playoffs, then they're better off with an extra question on defense than with a question about whether Sid and Geno both have the help they need to exploit the advantage that having both of them represents.

 

[KIRK]

Disco is running a close 2nd.

****, I forgot Disco . . . perhaps that's why he'll end up putting TK in the top six.

 

[JTG]

I understand, that´s a fair point probably. Only difference there, but a big one. I have seen a great performance by Bennett in that awful offensive team. He was the only one who showed that he deserves more than playing in awful AHL team. I just don´t understand why not to give a fair chance to him. I think he´s ready to compete, he has that talent to understand fast offensive game which is required when playing with Crosby/Malkin.

Because I think Bennett has some other stuff to work on, aside from the offensive game. Fact also is, we need to make a decision on Tangradi. He's no longer waiver eligible, so only a few things can happen.

1. You give him a shot to make an impact here, and by shot, I'm talking REGULAR top 9 mins. Not 5 mins a game with Craig Adams. He needs to play with good players to be an impact...he's a complimentary forward. You can't compliment Craig Adams. I think his ideal spot is probably with Neal and Geno. Tangradi is more of a playmaker so putting him with two guys who can shoot like those two can, that'll be good for him.

2. Trade him, and try to get something for him

3. Send him down, and get nothing for him, as he will be picked off waivers.

 

[KIRK]

I understand, that´s a fair point probably. Only difference there, but a big one. I have seen a great performance by Bennett in that awful offensive team. He was the only one who showed that he deserves more than playing in awful AHL team. I just don´t understand why not to give a fair chance to him. I think he´s ready to compete, he has that talent to understand fast offensive game which is required when playing with Crosby/Malkin.

I, for one, have zero problem giving Bennett a shot too. While I may be apoplectic about the idea of TK in the top six, I also know that the ideal spot for Dupuis for a playoff run would be on a line with Sutter and Cooke.

 

[KIRK]

Because I think Bennett has some other stuff to work on, aside from the offensive game. Fact also is, we need to make a decision on Tangradi. He's no longer waiver eligible, so only a few things can happen.

1. You give him a shot to make an impact here, and by shot, I'm talking REGULAR top 9 mins. Not 5 mins a game with Craig Adams. He needs to play with good players to be an impact...he's a complimentary forward. You can't compliment Craig Adams. I think his ideal spot is probably with Neal and Geno. Tangradi is more of a playmaker so putting him with two guys who can shoot like those two can, that'll be good for him.

2. Trade him, and try to get something for him

3. Send him down, and get nothing for him, as he will be picked off waivers.

That would be the place where Tangradi is most likely to succeed. I have my doubts whether he will, of course, but, when you look at the Geno and Neal dynamic, Tangradi could add something with his size, ability to control the puck and work along the boards, and net presence. I'll put it this way: If this is the Pens roster going into the season, without changes, then I'd rather see Tangradi than TK or Jeffrey with Geno and Neal to open the season.

As for Bennett, his place, IMO, would be with Sid and Kunitz. Give him a shot too to earn it. Worst case, if he does, then you put Dupuis with Sutter and Cooke, which I like as a potential third line.

 

[JTG]

I agree that Bennett's spot is with Kunitz and Sid, as he fits in there really well on the right side, along with bringing a dynamic that is needed on that line.

Kunitz-Crosby-Bennett
Tangradi-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis
Jeffrey-Adams-Kennedy


Quite a pie in the sky lineup, but it looks good if Tangradi and Bennett were to stick.

 

[sniugneP]

I agree that Bennett's spot is with Kunitz and Sid, as he fits in there really well on the right side, along with bringing a dynamic that is needed on that line.

Kunitz-Crosby-Bennett
Tangradi-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis
Jeffrey-Adams-Kennedy


Quite a pie in the sky lineup, but it looks good if Tangradi and Bennett were to stick.

I really like that lineup.

 

[KIRK]

I agree that Bennett's spot is with Kunitz and Sid, as he fits in there really well on the right side, along with bringing a dynamic that is needed on that line.

Kunitz-Crosby-Bennett
Tangradi-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis
Jeffrey-Adams-Kennedy


Quite a pie in the sky lineup, but it looks good if Tangradi and Bennett were to stick.

1. I suspect your fourth line would be Adams-Vitale-Kennedy.

2. You know, if Bennett and Tangradi could stick, then it would be a way to showcase each of them. Not saying that's how it plays out, but I could see one of them opening the season on the big club and ending it with another organization.

 

[shureshot66]

The biggest plus for a potential playoff lineup is that Shero has a ton of cap room to work with to add a piece or two. Obviously that works best by trading for a guy on an expiring contract, but it might be possible to leverage a team that might struggle to get underneath the decreased cap next season and land a decent player with term remaining.

Will be interesting to see how the trade deadline works this year. Going by the '95 lockout season, the regular season ran from Jan. 20 to May 3. The trade deadline was on April 7. Reasonable to think this year could follow the same pattern.

 

[JTG]

1. I suspect your fourth line would be Adams-Vitale-Kennedy.

2. You know, if Bennett and Tangradi could stick, then it would be a way to showcase each of them. Not saying that's how it plays out, but I could see one of them opening the season on the big club and ending it with another organization.

ChiChi is going to have my head for forgetting Vitale. More reason to finally cut ties with Craig Adams.

Jeffrey-Vitale-Kennedy

 

[JTG]

I just looked at the 2013-14 outlook, and it doesn't seem that any team is really in serious danger. Granted, I didn't look deeply, but the team with the least amount of cap space going into next year is Montreal, but they have 4 million dollars to sign bottom 6 players.


And I will also say, the guy who created cap geek is incredible. I was just poking around trying to find the outlooks for 2013-14, and there it was.

 

[KIRK]

ChiChi is going to have my head for forgetting Vitale. More reason to finally cut ties with Craig Adams.

Jeffrey-Vitale-Kennedy

I'm not sure what's less likely, the Pens cutting ties with Adams or Bylsma making coaching adjustments.

 

[mpp9]

The biggest plus for a potential playoff lineup is that Shero has a ton of cap room to work with to add a piece or two. Obviously that works best by trading for a guy on an expiring contract, but it might be possible to leverage a team that might struggle to get underneath the decreased cap next season and land a decent player with term remaining.

Will be interesting to see how the trade deadline works this year. Going by the '95 lockout season, the regular season ran from Jan. 20 to May 3. The trade deadline was on April 7. Reasonable to think this year could follow the same pattern.

I think the shortened season will also doom alot of bubble teams that have bad stretches. The problem with the last couple trade deadlines is that every team feels they have a chance to make the playoffs. Not enough sellers. And if those bubble teams have players they need to move before next season to get under the cap, all the better for our wishes to upgrade the roster.

 

[KIRK]

The biggest plus for a potential playoff lineup is that Shero has a ton of cap room to work with to add a piece or two. Obviously that works best by trading for a guy on an expiring contract, but it might be possible to leverage a team that might struggle to get underneath the decreased cap next season and land a decent player with term remaining.

Will be interesting to see how the trade deadline works this year. Going by the '95 lockout season, the regular season ran from Jan. 20 to May 3. The trade deadline was on April 7. Reasonable to think this year could follow the same pattern.

The Pens have room for more than a piece or two. IMO, if Calgary is out, Shero makes a big play for Iginla, and he's got the pieces and cap space to make it happen. He's also got the pieces and cap space to add an impact defenseman and a more appropriate winger for Geno and Neal.

The real question is whether we get the 2007-2009 version of Ray Shero, because that guy's attitude was 'I've got Sid and Geno, and the future is now'.

 

[KIRK]

I think the shortened season will also doom alot of bubble teams that have bad stretches. The problem with the last couple trade deadlines is that every team feels they have a chance to make the playoffs. Not enough sellers. And if those bubble teams have players they need to move before next season to get under the cap, all the better for our wishes to upgrade the roster.

Good point about the late deadline and 2013-2014 cap compliance issues likely creating more sellers. Here's another thought: A lot of those bubble teams are not exactly cash rich. IMO, you'll see a few names moved for below market value because teams would rather get something than have to pay the buyout.

 

[mpp9]

Good point about the late deadline and 2013-2014 cap compliance issues likely creating more sellers. Here's another thought: A lot of those bubble teams are not exactly cash rich. IMO, you'll see a few names moved for below market value because teams would rather get something than have to pay the buyout.

I'd pay attention to SJ. They're in a very odd spot. If they struggle this season, which is very possible, I'd be all over acquiring Boyle.

Usual suspects like Kulemin, Seto, Stewart, Iggy are ideal forward targets for me.

I'd be interested to see if a reporter/insider could find out what teams inquired about Martin aside from Nashville.