Peak and Prime: Malkin vs Draisaitl

[AvroArrow]

Prime Malkin won the Cup and Conn Smythe and had a legitimate argument for being better than both Crosby + Ovechkin

Draisaitl is a great player in his own right, but this is a no brainer.

 

[blundluntman]

Malkin for peak pretty easily, Draisaitl for prime simply bc he hasn't missed any significant time

 

[KareemTrustfund]

he is one of the most overrated players on here. Doesn’t matter what the poll is, people will be bending over backward to vote for him. Currently half of all people voted that they think his injury ridden prime is better for some reason.

Old Malkin had a better Points per 60 in 19/20 , the year Drai won his hart and Ross.

 

[wetcoast]

Malkin has the better peak and prime, Draisaitl’s no longer at his peak but is still adding to his prime.

I wonder what the criteria is for peak/prime that people are using here.

Generally I use a 3 year consecutive peak and 7 years consecutive prime but even if one doesn't care about consecutive Draisaitl has the better top 7 years right?

Top 7 years for Malkin are adjusted 122,117,115,100,98,97,82

For Leon it's all grouped in the same 7 year span of 128,127,124,122,106,105, 104.

I mean a couple of times at his absolute best Malkin was the best player in the world but the same could be said of Leon too right?

 

[Crow]

Old Malkin had a better Points per 60 in 19/20 , the year Drai won his hart and Ross.

Cool?

 

[10YearsHaveGone]

Malkin probably has the better single season (2012) and playoff run (2009). But he had some pretty inconsistent results mixed in with his prime years:

37 points in 43 games at age 24.
33 points in 31 games at age 26.
70 points in 69 games at age 28.
58 points in 57 games at age 29.

Scoring was lower for the last 3 listed above, but even so these are underwhelming results for a player that was considered almost as good as Crosby and Ovi in his prime.

On the other hand Draisaitl has had 6 straight seasons scoring at a 50 goal, 117 point pace, and he is looking to be having a career year in the 7th year of his prime. His prime is already much better than Malkins, and he will only widen that gap. Could potentially end up with the better overall peak as well.

 

[Regal]

Malkin probably has the better single season (2012) and playoff run (2009). But he had some pretty inconsistent results mixed in with his prime years:

37 points in 43 games at age 24.
33 points in 31 games at age 26.
70 points in 69 games at age 28.
58 points in 57 games at age 29.

Scoring was lower for the last 3 listed above, but even so these are underwhelming results for a player that was considered almost as good as Crosby and Ovi in his prime.

On the other hand Draisaitl has had 6 straight seasons scoring at a 50 goal, 117 point pace, and he is looking to be having a career year in the 7th year of his prime. His prime is already much better than Malkins, and he will only widen that gap. Could potentially end up with the better overall peak as well.

He was 7th and 4th in points per game in those last two years you listed. For reference, Draisaitl was 7th in points per game just last season, and 6th in 21-22. Malkin wasn’t really anymore “underwhelming” per game in those years than Draisaitl was in those two. Obviously last year the top 3 was much better than most years, but even in ‘15 Malkin was closer to Crosby for 1st in points per game than Draisaitl was to Panarin in points per game last year. The difference in scoring is pretty dramatic. Point per game then is 100+ today.

 

[wetcoast]

Malkin was an elite player up until the covid break in 2020, just had a ton of injury issues. He lead the playoffs in scoring en route to a cup in 2017.

You must think there are alot of elite players in the NHL then right?

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

You must think there are alot of elite players in the NHL then right?

Not sure what you're trying to say. He had 74 points in 55 games in 19-20, tied for 5th in the league in ppg. He fell off hard after 2021 because of his second torn ACL, and old age of course.

From 12-13 to 19-20 he was 3rd in ppg behind only McDavid and Crosby.

 

[10YearsHaveGone]

He was 7th and 4th in points per game in those last two years you listed. For reference, Draisaitl was 7th in points per game just last season, and 6th in 21-22. Malkin wasn’t really anymore “underwhelming” per game in those years than Draisaitl was in those two. Obviously last year the top 3 was much better than most years, but even in ‘15 Malkin was closer to Crosby for 1st in points per game than Draisaitl was to Panarin in points per game last year. The difference in scoring is pretty dramatic. Point per game then is 100+ today.

7th and 5th, but with significant missed time. Coupled with the very underwhelming seasons in 2011 and 2013, Malkin's prime is too inconsistent, and too injury riddled to be considered better than Draisaitls ongoing prime.

 

[KareemTrustfund]

Cool?

Just thought it was a neat fact

 

[Crow]

Just thought it was a neat fact

It is a cool fact.

I just don’t give these short streaks of points per game or points per 60 too much weight. No doubt Malkin was a hell of a hockey player. Pens fans overstate how effective he was overall however. If he got hurt this year after 15 games instead of slowed down I’m sure they would be telling us all how he was surely about to have another 110 point season and he’s the greatest ever 38 year old.

 

[Video Nasty]

If he got hurt this year after 15 games instead of slowed down I’m sure they would be telling us all how he was surely about to have another 110 point season and he’s the greatest ever 38 year old.

The very same ones are now sneering and saying “I don’t know what you expected” when it came to reality playing out. The bad Penguins fans just love that bi-polar paranoid what if victim act.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Malkin probably has the better single season (2012) and playoff run (2009). But he had some pretty inconsistent results mixed in with his prime years:

37 points in 43 games at age 24.
33 points in 31 games at age 26.
70 points in 69 games at age 28.
58 points in 57 games at age 29.

Scoring was lower for the last 3 listed above, but even so these are underwhelming results for a player that was considered almost as good as Crosby and Ovi in his prime.

On the other hand Draisaitl has had 6 straight seasons scoring at a 50 goal, 117 point pace, and he is looking to be having a career year in the 7th year of his prime. His prime is already much better than Malkins, and he will only widen that gap. Could potentially end up with the better overall peak as well.

Draisaitl's well on his way to his 4th 50 goal season and 6th 100 point season. I don't know how people can say Malkin had a better prime, even with the league scoring difference. Draisaitl is going to be in very elite company after this season.

 

[Video Nasty]

Can’t just dismiss playing all the games and being excellent year after year.

From 2018-2019 through 2022-2023, a span of five seasons, Draisaitl was top 4 in both goals and points.

He’s the only player to have done this for five consecutive seasons since Gretzky.

He still had a great year last season and now he’s working on what or may not end up being his signature year.

If he keeps this up for much longer, while McDavid and he win a couple of Cups, sorry, Drai will be easily ranked above Malkin.

Malkin had the potential to make it a really fun interesting debate on who truly had the best career of between himself, Crosby, and Ovechkin, but that ended a long time ago. He’s fortunate so many don’t care that he was only consistent at missing chunks of seasons and being inconsistent year in and year out, and rank him inside the 30s any way, or whatever the pulse is at this point.

 

[Regal]

7th and 5th, but with significant missed time. Coupled with the very underwhelming seasons in 2011 and 2013, Malkin's prime is too inconsistent, and too injury riddled to be considered better than Draisaitls ongoing prime.

Yea the missed time is an obvious knock and why Draisaitl is putting together a better prime. I just think sometimes people focus on Malkin’s 3 big seasons and blow off his other years because of the scoring environment and missed games. He’s a guy where he can get overrated by the “big 3 with Crosby and Ovechkin” narrative, where the holes in his resume compared to theirs are glossed over, but then in response I think others can go too far in the other direction.

I’d say 2010, 2011 and 2013 were the years between his sophomore year and 17-18 where he wasn’t one of the best in the league in the games he did play, though those were also years he was playing while battling something. And while his prime is more inconsistent than Draisaitl’s, it was also longer so far and I don’t think we can ignore that completely either.

 

[ghostingtaro]

malkin for peak and prime and its not even close compared to divesaitl

 

[Video Nasty]

To keep it positive, one of my favorite Malkin facts is how he won more Art Rosses than Crosby after his rookie season.

 

[Three On Zero]

malkin for peak and prime and its not even close compared to divesaitl

Peak is Malkin, prime will make for an interesting storyline when Draisaitl exits his prime. Right now it’s Malkin but a couple more years can swing that

 

[McFlash97]

Malkins 3 -100 point seasons and a grand total of 1 - 50 goal season is so much greater than the about to be 6-100 point seasons and about to get his 4th 50 + goal season Draisaitl.

Hoe many players even have 4 + 50 goal seasons in hockey history ?

The hate for anyone wearing the Oiler jersey on HF is sublime. Feels soo good.

Keep hatin.

 

[Video Nasty]

Malkins 3 -100 point seasons and a grand total of 1 - 50 goal season is so much greater than the about to be 6-100 point seasons and about to get his 4th 50 + goal season Draisaitl.

Hoe many players even have 4 + 50 goal seasons in hockey history ?

The hate for anyone wearing the Oiler jersey on HF is sublime. Feels soo good.

Keep hatin.

If he scores 50 on the season, only eleven players in NHL history would have more 50 goal seasons. All Hall of Famers. Lord help these people if he does it two more times and only trails Ovechkin, Gretzky, and Bossy.

If he hits 110 points again, assuming McDavid does as well, he’ll only trail nine players on that list too (tied with four others).

For anyone who doesn’t like seeing McDavid and Draisaitl sky rocket up all the all-time rankings, it’s likely to get real ugly for them with just another couple of seasons.

 

[Felidae]

There's a difference between healthier prime and who was better during their prime.


So I decided to look at their PPG lead over the competition from their 21-29 year old seasons.

Draisatl 2016 - now

1.32, 4th in PPG

Compared to competition

1.13, 10th in PPG, -0.19 gap
1.01, 20th in PPG, -0.31 gap


Evgeni Malkin 2007 - 2015

1.19, 2nd in PPG

Compared to competition (had to remove a bunch of couple game players)

0.98, 10th in PPG, -0.21 gap
0.90, 20th in PPG, -0.29 gap



So i'll be honest, I expected Malkin to have the lead here, but im a bit surprised it's as close as you could get, and this is with Malkin playing 566 games in this timeframe compared to Draisatl playing 649 games.

Its hard not to give the slight nod to Draisatl here for prime since he's dominated his competition to the same extent Malkin has, except much healthier. I also think Draisatl's competition has been stronger. There's Kucherov and MacKinnon who are in the same tier.

In comparison Malkin faced against Crosby, but then other guys who were offensively not as good as Kucherov or MacKinnon (Ovechkin was no longer an art Ross threat)

Of course, there's the McDavid factor. But idk, it's not like this is a Esposito/Orr situation. Draisaitl and McDavid are much closer as players, with Draisatl being able to match McDavid on a good year.

Time to give Draisaitl his due imo and at the very least, not put him in a tier below Malkin.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Players point totals vary from year to year, but ability level not so much. The reason why point totals are inconsistent are usually out of control of the player: things like teammates, coaching style and usage, and injuries.

In the Oilers case, their stars run the show and they play the same way year after year regardless of whoever stands in a suit behind the bench, so they're never in a position to have a down year in terms of personal stats.

 

[Video Nasty]

Players point totals vary from year to year, but ability level not so much. The reason why point totals are inconsistent are usually out of control of the player: things like teammates, coaching style and usage, and injuries.

In the Oilers case, their stars run the show and they play the same way year after year regardless of whoever stands in a suit behind the bench, so they're never in a position to have a down year in terms of personal stats.

Yawn. Even Nathaniel can sometimes give credit where it is due.

 

[Crow]

There's a difference between healthier prime and who was better during their prime.


So I decided to look at their PPG lead over the competition from their 21-29 year old seasons.

Draisatl 2016 - now

1.32, 4th in PPG

Compared to competition

1.13, 10th in PPG, -0.19 gap
1.01, 20th in PPG, -0.31 gap


Evgeni Malkin 2007 - 2015

1.19, 2nd in PPG

Compared to competition (had to remove a bunch of couple game players)

0.98, 10th in PPG, -0.21 gap
0.90, 20th in PPG, -0.29 gap



So i'll be honest, I expected Malkin to have the lead here, but im a bit surprised it's as close as you could get, and this is with Malkin playing 566 games in this timeframe compared to Draisatl playing 649 games.

Its hard not to give the slight nod to Draisatl here for prime since he's dominated his competition to the same extent Malkin has, except much healthier. I also think Draisatl's competition has been stronger. There's Kucherov and MacKinnon who are in the same tier.

In comparison Malkin faced against Crosby, but then other guys who were offensively not as good as Kucherov or MacKinnon (Ovechkin was no longer an art Ross threat)

Of course, there's the McDavid factor. But idk, it's not like this is a Esposito/Orr situation. Draisaitl and McDavid are much closer as players, with Draisatl being able to match McDavid on a good year.

Time to give Draisaitl his due imo and at the very least, not put him in a tier below Malkin.

Dari’s prime definitely did not start until 2018. No he was not 21, he was older, but I don’t think age defines prime as much as play does. His numbers from then on are starkly difference than they were in years before.