TheBig08
Guest
What would Pavel Bure's career look like if never got injured and what would his totals be, what awards would he have and where would rank all time on the goals list
how long do u think his consistency/longevity would have lasted?Might have won another goal scoring title. Probably not much else as far as awards go unless you count all-star nods. As far as goal totals, 600, maybe 700, assuming he also has a longer career.
It wouldn't have had to be otherworldly. If we cut out injuries in the career he had, I think you can easily get him to 500. If he remains a 35-40 goal scorer into his mid-30s, that's probably another ~150 goals. So, if he has a decent wind down, he's a 600-650. Good longevity, playing to his late 30s, or maybe to 40 could get him to 700 I think.how long do u think his consistency/longevity would have lasted?
Hmm idk.I don't see him doing worse than Selanne.
I'd say that's very pessimistic. Bure who doesn't have knee injuries and usually plays a full season has very good odds of leading the NHL in goals in any of 1997, 1998 (played the full season but was not as explosive as he had been prior to knee issues), and 1999. If Bure played the full 82 games in 2000, especially if it's a healthier Bure than the actual one who did play in 2000, he very likely hits 100 points and gets the Art Ross and Hart.Might have won another goal scoring title. Probably not much else as far as awards go unless you count all-star nods.
Hmm idk.
I feel like Bure was more of a physical freak than Selanne. Faster, stronger, better shot...
I'm not sure a mid to late 30s Bure would have aged as gracefully as Selanne, who imo, was more reliant on his smarts.
All he accomplished without an elite center is amazing
Without any significant injuries, he obviously likely wins several more goal-scoring titles, 1st and 2nd team all-star selections, maybe additional trophies.
And he would easily score 700 goals, possibly 800.
There were many great goal-scorers among his generation, but he was the best of the bunch.
There were many great goal-scorers among his generation, but he was the best of the bunch.
Low sample size but has a Rangers he still scored at an 50 goals pace.I am not sure if it was just age since he was 30 or nagging injuries piling up but he is off his pace in 2002 and 2003 and of course retires because of his knees then.
Rk | Player | Age | Pos | GP | G | A | PTS | +/- | PIM | EVG | PPG | SHG | GWG | EV | PP | SH | SOG | SPCT | TOI | ATOI | Awards |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Pavel Bure | 30 | RW | 56 | 22 | 27 | 49 | -14 | 56 | 12 | 9 | 1 | 1 | 15 | 12 | 0 | 238 | 9.2 | 1322:23 | 23:37 | |
2 | Kristian Huselius | 23 | LW | 79 | 23 | 22 | 45 | -4 | 14 | 16 | 6 | 1 | 3 | 13 | 8 | 1 | 169 | 13.6 | 1335:48 | 16:55 | AR-1,Calder-3 |
3 | Marcus Nilson | 23 | LW | 81 | 14 | 19 | 33 | -14 | 55 | 7 | 6 | 1 | 2 | 12 | 6 | 1 | 147 | 9.5 | 1337:54 | 16:31 | |
4 | Jason Wiemer | 25 | C | 70 | 11 | 20 | 31 | -4 | 178 | 5 | 5 | 1 | 1 | 16 | 4 | 0 | 115 | 9.6 | 1200:34 | 17:09 | |
5 | Ivan Novoseltsev | 23 | RW | 70 | 13 | 16 | 29 | -10 | 44 | 11 | 1 | 1 | 5 | 11 | 4 | 1 | 109 | 11.9 | 1042:12 | 14:53 |
A lot of players damage their career legacies (if that's important is another question, of course) by changing treams. Pavel Bure is a good example. I think if he'd stayed with the Canucks through the late-90s and early-00s into the Naslund / Bertuzzi period, they'd have been even better in that latter era, probably had playoff success, etc., and Bure would still have been getting his 45-55 goals per year. He'd be more appreciated, be more universally loved, and have higher goals' totals. There'd be a statue of him outside Rogers Arena.
But it was the 90s, when star players all wanted to get traded a lot, and also Canucks' management at the time was a trainwreck...
- there’s the idea that bure wouldn’t have worked with, or at least wouldn’t have been helped by, a superstar center. tiny sample size but the one single time he had one and both were healthy (eric lindros in ny) he scored at an 82 goal, 65 assist, 137 pt pace — in a season where the league leaders had 51 goals (iginla), 64 assists (oates), 96 pts (iginla again).
- what i just said about an elite center noteithstanding, in selanne’s 76 goal year, he played with probably bure’s ideal linemates: housley as the elite PMD, and a combo of pass-first two way center thomas steen and classic soviet style center alex zhamnov.
a couple stray pavel bure talking pts that intersect with some of the discussion in this thread:
- feel like bure was an extreme version of soviet anti-longevity. the way you typically had soviet guys falling off as a matter of course in their late 20s, to be replaced by the younger generation coming up, my hunch is that bure was not only brought up in that system where his obsolescence was planned but even moreso than everyone else because his dad was his dad. from a young age he was trained to maximize short term gain to the expense of sustainable performance. brother valeri also fell apart very young.
- there’s the idea that bure wouldn’t have worked with, or at least wouldn’t have been helped by, a superstar center. tiny sample size but the one single time he had one and both were healthy (eric lindros in ny) he scored at an 82 goal, 65 assist, 137 pt pace — in a season where the league leaders had 51 goals (iginla), 64 assists (oates), 96 pts (iginla again).
- what i just said about an elite center noteithstanding, in selanne’s 76 goal year, he played with probably bure’s ideal linemates: housley as the elite PMD, and a combo of pass-first two way center thomas steen and classic soviet style center alex zhamnov.
I can go with faster (throughout their prime), maybe the better shot (I have no idea), but stronger?
I'd also add that Selanne himself, lost a lot of his plus speed after his rookie season. I'm actually not sold that he was any slower than Bure in 1992-93.
Selanne was a physical freak in his own right, and I don't think he takes a back seat to Bure in that regard. Almost anyone would have called it quits when he started hitting his decline with SJ, and especially with his time in Denver. Pretty impressive overall, considering that he didn't start playing in the NHL until he was 22.
To Bure's credit, he could hit 55-60 with more regulartiy because he doesn't have to rely on anyone else frankly, so I can see why people are very high on him as a goalscorer. I'm not a fan of that style of play, though I do think Bure is one of the most exciting players I've ever seen.
His playing with an elite center would be superfluous. He'd drag down the elite center's numbers if anything. He's more in line with being a greater Bondra, and a much greater Klima.
Bure maximized his output at his peak. That's the difference between Bure and Selanne, one worked well with the help of his teammates, which is why Selanne could hit a lofty total of 76. I doubt that Bure could ever touch 70 goals in a seaon. It's not like he didn't play in 1992-93 himself, which would be in line with the early '80s in terms of high scoring.
Bure scored 437 goals and 342 assists in his career, in 702 GP.
Interesting enough, Selanne registered 382 goals and 431 assists in his first 702 GP.
Based on Bure's style of play, it's doubtful that he could ever reach 1,000 GP. And let's say that he did, I doubt that the backhalf of his career would mirror his first 10 years of his career. I think with a little more luck in the injury department, he reaches 600.
Bure smashed the big rink too. Ovi struggled internationally.ovi vs bure stats in there first 702 games
Bure: 702 games, 437 goals, 779 points
Ovechkin: 702 games, 434 goals, 835 points
what yhall think about ovi vs bure?