Paul Maurice "State of the Union"

[Channelcat]

I disagree. Everything Paul says publicly is calculated for effect - by him. He is very good at it. He will say whatever suits his purpose.

Yes, he is a calculating speaker! That's all good though. Its better than having a guy like Melnyk or Therrien running around throwing everyone under the bus.

As far as the Pavs situation, I personally feel that Paul desperately wants to move on from him, but recognizes that the circumstances just don't really allow for it right now.

 

[Whileee]

I agree that it is clear that they reacted to the PO sweep. I have to question the reaction though. We don't get swept if we have an NHL starting level goaltender. Even with the goaltending we had we don't get swept without the fairly severe injury problem we went into the POs with. Toby should not have been playing and at least 3 others were severely hampered.

Every team is playing with injuries by the time the POs roll around so maybe management didn't bias their evaluation to account for that. Apparently they still don't know how bad Pav is.

I think that the team that finished last year with Ehlers in for Tlusty, Copp in for Slater and Helle in for Pav would be a first round winner. Whether they could ever challenge for a cup is another matter. Now bring in Morrissey for Stu and Armia in for Thor and we are another step better.

Hard to say for certain which approach would have been better in the long run though. Had they done it as I've indicated above they might have won a round this year, maybe 2 rounds next year but then the veteran core begins to age out and slide back. The peak would still probably have been short of a contender and the full on youth movement would have had to start 2 years later. With 2 years of later draft picks.

So I don't agree that last year was the best the old core could have done but I think starting the youth movement this year will likely turn out to have been the right way to go in the long run.

I don't think they anticipated this year being as bad as it has been. With the progress of the youth movement I think next year will be a lot more fun. We will be in a lot more games and in the PO hunt a lot longer whether we make it or not.

Just that pesky old salary cap to worry about.

Keeping last year's team would mean an extra $10+ million in extra salary cap hit carried forward for the next 4 years. There goes the option of long-term deals for Scheif and Trouba. Also, no chance to keep Perreault, Wheeler and Little when they are UFA if you keep Ladd and Frolik.

The Jets management decided that their best window wasn't in the next 3 years. Maurice said it straight out.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I can imagine, when discussing the strategy around the youth movement, they looked our current roster vs. the central div teams and said, this is a losing battle.

The move from the SE to central may have played a non-trivial part in the ultimate decision to rebuild/refocus around the youth. Of course you need a great team to win a SC either way. But the path through the central is brutal. And you're less likely to even get a respectable playoff showing in the central without a very strong team.

If we can make it there we can make it anywhere!

On another note, I sometimes think that the decisions that have been made that we find odd, maybe have a valid reason in the larger picture. Once the young guys are ready, we will drop the dead weight and let them go.

 

[Whileee]

From what I've been reading, it seems that a lot of people are on board with a rebuild and going with the youth because the current core won't get it done. I'm also OK with that.. But does anyone else wonder why now... why after 5 years... when it looked like after year #2 that this was probably going to be the case? Should the Jets have gone younger sooner or they just couldn't at the time?

Also, what would be different if the Jets had actually managed to re-sign Ladd? I mean.. maybe they were miles apart and it was never going to happen, but it at least appeared like they wanted to re-sign him... and if they did, doesn't that fly in the face of a youth rebuild?

They could have traded off their players earlier, but that would have been for future draft picks and prospects. I think that they didn't want to put the Jets into the tank and destroy any good will with their vets. It was going to be hard enough to build a good reputation among players as a place to come to. If the Jets had torn it down to the studs, guys like Wheeler and Ladd and Buff wouldn't have been the positive spokerspersons that they are for the Jets.

Also, Chevy was just getting to know his amateur and pro scouts and building an organization. You can make a lot of mistakes trading players for picks and prospects without great scouting. He's probably a lot more confident in trading for prospects and picks now than he was then, because he has a trusted scouting staff.

I still wonder how hard the Jets tried to re-sign Ladd. My guess is that they would have liked him back on a relatively short, team-friendly contract, reflecting his diminishing role on the team in the future. He wasn't interested, so they moved on. But we'll probably never really know.

 

[Board Bard]

I disagree. Everything Paul says publicly is calculated for effect - by him. He is very good at it. He will say whatever suits his purpose.

Exactly. Such as there was this prescient master plan all along, and it necessitated letting last year's TD arrivals go in the summer. Easy to see and say the plan was to go with youth, but what he doesn't say was the plan was to go with some youth and some of the same old uselessness, which could have easily been jettisoned in favour of . . . well, never mind who specifically. This interview sounds largely to me like Maurice playing to an audience, using doctored information and interpretation to form a cultured pearl around a grain of truth. At best, equal parts truth and hornswoggle.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Quality interview. Sure, H&L could have asked more aggressive questions. But if you go on the attack, Maurice goes on the defence and the honesty and intimacy of the interview gets shut down.

That being said, they did cover the tough subjects fairly well, from goalie sv%, to special teams struggles (Maurice's reaction was hilarious), to the general "what went wrong this season" questions. I know Lawless hasn't always been the most popular around here, but to me this interview raises both their profiles in my book. Hustler has a natural talent for interviews. A conversational flow and way of putting his guest at ease.

The interview again validates a lot of what myself and others have hypothesized about the youth movement. An interesting point Maurice made is that the young players individually haven't specifically been a problem this year. But he said with the youth came a different skill set, requiring a different team identity. And this is more what caused some ripple effects from the youth movement. I made this exact same argument in the many debates over whether Chevy had tried and failed to build a playoff team this year. While I'm sure TNSE would have been quite happy (and pleasantly surprised) with a playoff run, I remain convinced as ever that this year, including our short term troubles with the youth movement, are all part of a more future oriented plan.

Interesting comments on how Wheeler is an emotional player, and tends to still be geared up when he does his post game interviews. Which results in some pretty raw answers. No ****.

I think that is correct but it is important to clarify that the plan you are referring to is not the same one they went into the previous season with. The ending of last season prompted a new plan. That is why the rhetoric changed. When we got Stemp and Tlusty the tone indicated that we could expect them to stay here for more than just the PO run (assuming they fit well and played well of course). So people were surprised that at the end of the day they were simply allowed to walk. A new plan was being implemented. I don't know if that influenced the outcome with Frolik or not. Don't care either as in my opinion Fro should have been retained either way. Water under the bridge and the new plan may have played a part. I'm sure we'll never know.

The important thing is that a decision was made to move on to our new young players and that is being implemented pretty consistently I think. We will see next season. If Pav, Thor and Stu are all still here they should at least find their roles substantially diminished.

 

[Whileee]

I disagree. Everything Paul says publicly is calculated for effect - by him. He is very good at it. He will say whatever suits his purpose.

Of course. Why would he do anything else?

Good thing that his "purpose" is to make the Jets a winner.

 

[Whileee]

Exactly. Such as there was this prescient master plan all along, and it necessitated letting last year's TD arrivals go in the summer. Easy to see and say the plan was to go with youth, but what he doesn't say was the plan was to go with some youth and some of the same old uselessness, which could have easily been jettisoned in favour of . . . well, never mind who specifically. This interview sounds largely to me like Maurice playing to an audience, using doctored information and interpretation to form a cultured pearl around a grain of truth. At best, equal parts truth and hornswoggle.

Devante Smith-Pelly?

 

[Howard Chuck]

Exactly. Such as there was this prescient master plan all along, and it necessitated letting last year's TD arrivals go in the summer. Easy to see and say the plan was to go with youth, but what he doesn't say was the plan was to go with some youth and some of the same old uselessness, which could have easily been jettisoned in favour of . . . well, never mind who specifically. This interview sounds largely to me like Maurice playing to an audience, using doctored information and interpretation to form a cultured pearl around a grain of truth. At best, equal parts truth and hornswoggle.

Unless their plan wasn't to do well this year ?

 

[Puckatron 3000]

I agree that it is clear that they reacted to the PO sweep. I have to question the reaction though.

...

Even with the goaltending we had we don't get swept without the fairly severe injury problem we went into the POs with.

I wonder if the injuries spooked them. That the super heavy physical style of play not only left the team ravaged by the post season. But also the long term wear and tear on the roster would accelerate the downgrade of our players in their prime. They concluded it is an unsustainable style of play.

Maybe this same issue factors into the Blues' playoff problems.

 

[Whileee]

...


I wonder if the injuries spooked them. That the super heavy physical style of play not only left the team ravaged by the post season. But also the long term wear and tear on the roster would accelerate the downgrade of our players in their prime. They concluded it is an unsustainable style of play.

Maybe this same issue factors into the Blues' playoff problems.

Maurice did indicate that he thought the Jets couldn't give more than they did last season, and certainly their core players couldn't over the next 3 years, which he cited as the optimum window of their core players. Going forward I think he sees Wheeler as maybe someone who can hang with this core. Not sure who else. Given that the best young prospects have different skill sets that management clearly feels is necessary to become a real contender, the writing was on the wall.

 

[pucka lucka]

Exactly. Such as there was this prescient master plan all along, and it necessitated letting last year's TD arrivals go in the summer. Easy to see and say the plan was to go with youth, but what he doesn't say was the plan was to go with some youth and some of the same old uselessness, which could have easily been jettisoned in favour of . . . well, never mind who specifically. This interview sounds largely to me like Maurice playing to an audience, using doctored information and interpretation to form a cultured pearl around a grain of truth. At best, equal parts truth and hornswoggle.

This is why I am not much of a fan of Maurice. His willingness to BS. He goes through so much effort to polish the turds it's somewhat insulting to an educated listener. He's not trying to fool us though. Just like his sophisticated fans comments recently, he isn't actually speaking to sophisticated fans.

 

[Whileee]

This is why I am not much of a fan of Maurice. His willingness to BS. He goes through so much effort to polish the turds it's somewhat insulting to an educated listener. He's not trying to fool us though. Just like his sophisticated fans comments recently, he isn't actually speaking to sophisticated fans.

I think he expects sophisticated fans to figure out which is BS, and which isn't.

I don't think it's very difficult, actually. It doesn't "insult" me at all, and I think I'm a pretty "educated listener" (well, very "educated", but maybe not everyone would agree with the "listener" part).

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

a few of more learned/statsy HF members should consider an Opinion Piece in the local paper to summarize the season and propose changes.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

Whileee - Yeah for sure. I think the conclusion last year was "this is the best we got". Although Mort makes a valid point that significant tweaks (goaltending) could have been made. Still, the injury concern seems valid. Plus, the window was closing to address those tweaks. For better or worse, TNSE's preference of DnD is not geared towards quick fixes.

Maurice's comments on Wheeler strike me as both legit, and perhaps an active attempt to court a valuable player who is clearly frustrated this season. I'm sure they're saying very similar things to him directly, either now or in the post season interviews.

 

[Whileee]

Whileee - Yeah for sure. I think the conclusion last year was "this is the best we got". Although Mort makes a valid point that significant tweaks (goaltending) could have been made. Still, the injury concern seems valid. Plus, the window was closing to address those tweaks. For better or worse, TNSE's preference of DnD is not geared towards quick fixes.

The Wheeler comments strike me as both legit, and perhaps an active attempt to court a valuable player who is clearly frustrated this season. I'm sure they're saying very similar things to him directly, either now or in the post season interviews.

Everyone knew the next wave was coming, and that it was going to be a different style of player requiring a different style of play. They also felt that this core was never going to compete with the other Central teams during its "peak". You could argue that with better goaltending and fixing the bottom 6, that core could have become a real contender. But even if that were true, you would have had to fully commit to that core, which would have meant giving up on some of the future, both for cap reasons and because you would have needed to trade future assets to plug the holes in the line-up.

I think the Jets didn't mind that they had a nice run last year, but I doubt that it altered their long-range plans. If it had, I expect that they would have angled for more "now" players rather than 3 futures when they traded Kane/Bogo. To me, that was a strong signal that they didn't mind a bit of a run last year (Stafford), but they were really more interested in the future.

 

[pucka lucka]

I think he expects sophisticated fans to figure out which is BS, and which isn't.

I don't think it's very difficult, actually. It doesn't "insult" me at all, and I think I'm a pretty "educated listener" (well, very "educated", but maybe not everyone would agree with the "listener" part).

So he's speaking to us on hfjets by lying to us? It's insulting because he's intentionally wasting our time, being purposely deceptive for his own gain. Who said anything about difficult? It's farcical to go on the radio and come up with some elaborate BS. It's just so damn silly.

I am addressing a much broader point here. The hockey establishment is ridiculous in how they deal with the media. They think they are pulling something for some gain. I think they just look like fools.

 

[pucka lucka]

So he's speaking to us on hfjets by lying to us? It's insulting because he's intentionally wasting our time, being purposely deceptive for his own gain. Who said anything about difficult? It's farcical to go on the radio and come up with some elaborate BS. It's just so damn silly.

I am addressing a much broader point here. The hockey establishment is ridiculous in how they deal with the media. They think they are pulling something for some gain. I think they just look like fools.

[mod] i wanted to add, i am not actually insulted personally, i think it can be taken that way.

 

[Whileee]

So he's speaking to us on hfjets by lying to us? It's insulting because he's intentionally wasting our time, being purposely deceptive for his own gain. Who said anything about difficult? It's farcical to go on the radio and come up with some elaborate BS. It's just so damn silly.

I am addressing a much broader point here. The hockey establishment is ridiculous in how they deal with the media. They think they are pulling something for some gain. I think they just look like fools.

What exactly do you think Maurice said that was "elaborate BS"?

I don't mind that he doesn't throw his players under the bus, and particularly his goalies. That's just being considerate to his players and avoiding singling anyone out. It's unrealistic to expect anything else.

 

[Analyst365]

So he's speaking to us on hfjets by lying to us? It's insulting because he's intentionally wasting our time, being purposely deceptive for his own gain. Who said anything about difficult? It's farcical to go on the radio and come up with some elaborate BS. It's just so damn silly.

I am addressing a much broader point here. The hockey establishment is ridiculous in how they deal with the media. They think they are pulling something for some gain. I think they just look like fools.

You're just going to have to be happy being in the minority since most fans will happily gobble up what the powers that be say and realign their thinking to match it.

 

[pucka lucka]

What exactly do you think Maurice said that was "elaborate BS"?

I don't mind that he doesn't throw his players under the bus, and particularly his goalies. That's just being considerate to his players and avoiding singling anyone out. It's unrealistic to expect anything else.

I don't think anyone has to be thrown under the bus. There are many ways to address team issues without lying or a complete lack of logical consistency. If we assume they aren't lying well you know where that leads. It's ****ing hockey not national security. The weird media charade should have been left in the 80's.

 

[Whileee]

You're just going to have to be happy being in the minority since most fans will happily gobble up what the powers that be say and realign their thinking to match it.

I actually find this to be insulting to many fans. I actually find that many of the most unsophisticated fans tend to be bellicose critics of Maurice and the Jets management.

The notion that only unthinking fans would consider Maurice to be thoughtful and intelligent seems to be based on a fairly "black and white" view. I didn't see a lot of fans criticizing Maurice for coaching last year's team to 99 points (though I might have been one of his most consistent critics last year). Within a year he's become a BS'ing moron? Is that the sophisticated viewpoint?

 

[Puckatron 3000]

This is why I am not much of a fan of Maurice. His willingness to BS. He goes through so much effort to polish the turds it's somewhat insulting to an educated listener. He's not trying to fool us though. Just like his sophisticated fans comments recently, he isn't actually speaking to sophisticated fans.

I get that.

But I appreciate that these interviews have a lot of audiences, a lot of objectives.

You want to give the media something juicy. You want to appease the fans, both casual and sophisticated/hardcore. You want to prop up your team and preserve morale. You want to represent TNSE and upper management well. You want to represent yourself well. All while being entertaining.

That's a huge balancing act.

Maybe you or I would be more satisfied if he said "Pavs sucks", or "TNSE madE a mistake with his contract". Or "we're going to drop Pavs like a hot potato as soon as we finish the tank".

He could throw his bosses, his players, his assistant coaches under the bus, and deservedly so, for certain problems.

Add to the list of audiences other GMs. Look what the Drouin controversy is likely having on his trade value. Imagine if we'd been more public with the Kane problems. Would that have sabotaged the Buffalo trade? Cost us Myers, Armia, Roslovic, Lemieux, and Stafford?

There are costs to the words spoken in an interview. I don't think that extra bit of blatant honesty, to make you or I feel better, is worth that cost.

I'm glad Maurice can navigate an interview without damaging the team. And do so in an entertaining fashion.

 

[CaptainChef]

Quality interview.
Interesting comments on how Wheeler is an emotional player, and tends to still be geared up when he does his post game interviews. Which results in some pretty raw answers. No ****.

Joining this discussion late, but the Wheeler comments REALLY make me wonder about Wheels being the C choice of the future. I've always thought he was a little too forthrite for the job & that's sort of what Maurice says there.

It may just be that he needs to grow into the job, but I would not be astonished to see Scheif get the job either: a) immediately - wow, big pressure for the kid, but they may consider it, or b) bring back Ladd for 2-3 years to take advantage of Ladd's leadership & good years left, plus to groom either Scheif (or possibly Lowry) to be captain.

 

[Analyst365]

Everyone knew the next wave was coming, and that it was going to be a different style of player requiring a different style of play. They also felt that this core was never going to compete with the other Central teams during its "peak".

"I like the group," Cheveldayoff said.
"I like the core."
"We’re getting an opportunity now to try
to keep some guys together."

Chevy's post season press conference last year.