Patriots/NFL Patriots fire Jerod Mayo after dismal 4-13 season

GloryDaze4877

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Let me preface this by saying a few things. Been a long time Pats fan (1976) and am old enough to remember the days when the Patriots actually were the laughingstock of the league during the Sullivan era.Things obviously change over time, but I don’t see Kraft as the dottering old fool some people do. I remember when Kiam and Orthwein owned the team and it was in real danger of being moved to St Louis. Kraft brought respectability back and resurrected the franchise.

That said, things need to change with the franchise. I was a huge Belichick guy up until the last couple of years when I believe he kind of lost it. Over 20 years though, he was the best coach in the NFL and also tied in with his GM’s. Not sure what happened, but once he couldn’t coexist with Brady, things started to go south. I believe that Kraft let Bill run everything until he felt he couldn’t anymore.

The down side of that is that with Bill being the czar and doing everything his own way, the Patriots are now behind the curve compared to teams like the Chiefs, Ravens, Eagles and 49ers. IMO, not only do the Patriots need to find the right coach, the need to build out the infrastructure of the organization so that they have a legit structure and aren’t dependent on one guy (like they were with BB). Kraft has gotten the rep of being cheap. I have no idea whether that’s true or not, but he needs to spend money on coaching, analytics and better scouting if this team is going to be relevant again.

I think if he’s guilty of anything, it’s thinking that just changing out Bill was going to fix everything. He saw Mayo as Bill’s successor and got spooked when he thought he might lose him a couple of years ago. Putting the “HC in waiting” thing in his contract was a mistake and it obviously caused issues internally with BB and other coaches. Mayo was doomed to fail by his own lack of experience and by the lack of talent he inherited. As the season progressed, it became apparent that he was in over his head.

I believe that Kraft would have preferred bringing him back and adding/replacing other personnel. After the Arizona and Green Bay games, that changed. The availability of a coach like Vrabel likely sealed the deal and sped up the timeline.

As far as the nuts and bolts goes, I think there are several ways they could go and be successful as long as they build the infrastructure and get a good coach who is all about teamwork and communication and is forward thinking. They got a huge piece when they drafted Maye.

Personally, I think an offensive-minded coach might be the way to go, only so that they can continue to develop Maye as quickly as possible. That said, a defensive guy like Vrabel could work as long as he’s bringing a good offensive mind. The only danger in that is losing the OC to a head coaching promotion. Perhaps a guy like McDaniels, who is proven, but isn’t in danger of getting another HC job would be the way to go. He would be able to develop Maye and bring continuity.

I know a lot of people are upset that Wolf hasn’t been fired as well, but three things about that. The guy is respected around the league and has been employed in several different organizations, which I believe is important. Second, Mayo was not Wolf’s hire, he was Krafts. I highly doubt Mayo would have been his choice. Third, the scouting changes that Wolf supposedly started implementing after last season were likely not utilized at the 2024 draft because they had already been using the old methods all year. It might be the smart play to stick with them for now and see how it works.

The first thing they should do is conduct a thorough search for coach (and possibly GM) even if Vrabel is the preferred guy (see Chargers last year with Harbaugh). This situation should be fluid depending on where the coaching search leads them. If it means bringing someone in above Wolf or in place of him that will work better with the coach, then do it. I think they might be able to retain Wolf as part of the FO and it would be a good thing.

They need to get this thing right.
 
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Oates2Neely

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Bit of a cherry pick here.

Vrabel was 54-45 in 6 seasons in TEN (9-5 per season). He never had a QB there (Mariota, Tanehill, Levis as a rookie). His relationship with the GM (Robinson) seemed fine until said GM decided to not pay AJ Brown, traded him and then never replaced him. Robinson was fired the next year and Vrabel favored the interim GM, who had been a personnel guy with the Titans for a while. The owner decided to hire a GM from the 49ers (I believe) and Vrabel was canned the next year.

There is a really good article in the Athletic about Vrabel. It’s worth the read:

9 wins doesn’t make the playoffs
 

GloryDaze4877

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9 wins doesn’t make the playoffs
My math was off on the losses. It was basically a 9-7 average.

He won 9, 9, 11 (w/16 game seasons) and 12 (w/17 game season. Made the playoffs 3 of those 4 years.

In the, “I can cherry pick too” category:

Last 4 years, Vrabel, 36 wins and 2 playoff appearances.

Last 4 years, Belichick, 29 wins, 1 playoff appearance.

In 2019, Vrabel (9-7) beat Belichick (12-4) in the playoffs. So yeah, 9 wins did make the playoffs.
 
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KOZ37

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My math was off on the losses. It was basically a 9-7 average.

He won 9, 9, 11 (w/16 game seasons) and 12 (w/17 game season. Made the playoffs 3 of those 4 years.

In the, “I can cherry pick too” category:

Last 4 years, Vrabel, 36 wins and 2 playoff appearances.

Last 4 years, Belichick, 29 wins, 1 playoff appearance.

In 2019, Vrabel (9-7) beat Belichick (12-4) in the playoffs. So yeah, 9 wins did make the playoffs.
My only concern with Vrabel was the vanilla, run heavy offense he utilized. I'm hoping he is open to a more high octane offense these days.
 

StreetHawk

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They will likely have to move up from 6 to draft Sanders. Just my opinion, but there is no way I draft his kid and then hand over the team to Deion.
It would create too weird a situation for a Pro coach to have his son on the roster, not only that, but as the most important position on a team. Just would not end well for both guys.
 
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GloryDaze4877

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I mean he did have King Henry in the backfield and Tannehill under center, I'd run the ball too...
2018 (9-7): Mariota/Gabbert
2019 (9-7): Tannehill/Mariota
2020 (11-5): Tannehill
2021 (12-5): Tannehill
2022 (7-10): Tannehill/Dobbs/Willis
2023 (6-11): Tannehill/Levis

Just like every other coach in the NFL, if you get decent QB play, you are more likely to have a successful season.

Earlier in this thread, I posted the link to the Zach Rosenblatt story on Vrabel and his 2024 season. Some good insight there. He specifically mentioned having a QB as a necessity. Also, in CLE this past year, he was a consultant. Was all over but spent time on the O side of the ball.

Vrabel is not the only option and the Patriots should explore all of them. However, he doesn’t strike me as a coach that won’t adapt to the way the league is trending.
 

Smitty93

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There's a non-zero chance they might just think Pep Hamilton's a football genius. Or they just thought it'd be cool to interview an insane person.

Think of how fun the drama could be if we have another coach obsessed with starting the backup.
 

KOZ37

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2018 (9-7): Mariota/Gabbert
2019 (9-7): Tannehill/Mariota
2020 (11-5): Tannehill
2021 (12-5): Tannehill
2022 (7-10): Tannehill/Dobbs/Willis
2023 (6-11): Tannehill/Levis

Just like every other coach in the NFL, if you get decent QB play, you are more likely to have a successful season.

Earlier in this thread, I posted the link to the Zach Rosenblatt story on Vrabel and his 2024 season. Some good insight there. He specifically mentioned having a QB as a necessity. Also, in CLE this past year, he was a consultant. Was all over but spent time on the O side of the ball.

Vrabel is not the only option and the Patriots should explore all of them. However, he doesn’t strike me as a coach that won’t adapt to the way the league is trending.
I'm hoping you are correct.
 

UncleRico

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Are you an air it out offense first fan?

Personally, as with the Bruins, I prefer defense first. Even if that means running the ball for a yard or two while keeping the other team off the board.

I like passing as much as the next fellow.

What's your preference? If anyone else wants to weigh in, please.

Ben Johnson runs a ton of play action(2nd most in nfl). Goff actually set a record this year for single game passing yards off play action. Pair that with Drake Mayes arm and ability to run and I think it’s a perfect match.

Ben Johnson actually runs the exact type of offense that would benefit Drake Maye the most in my opinion.

Now who knows if Ben Johnson is a good leader. I’d say the ceiling is significantly higher with Ben Johnson, but Vrabel is a safer pick and an established leader.

I know who I would choose.
 

GloryDaze4877

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The guy they interviewed today. And you call yourself a Patriots fan? :shakehead
I actually saw this morning that the Pats were interviewing him and Byron Leftwich, but I didn’t know who Pep was, why they would want to interview him, or for what position 😂

Ben Johnson runs a ton of play action(2nd most in nfl). Goff actually set a record this year for single game passing yards off play action. Pair that with Drake Mayes arm and ability to run and I think it’s a perfect match.

Ben Johnson actually runs the exact type of offense that would benefit Drake Maye the most in my opinion.

Now who knows if Ben Johnson is a good leader. I’d say the ceiling is significantly higher with Ben Johnson, but Vrabel is a safer pick and an established leader.

I know who I would choose.
I think I would be fine with either Vrabel or Johnson, depending on who else was coming with them. I think I would also add Flores to that mix as well.

Vrabel is more proven and is only 49. So, it’s not like he’s this old geezer who can’t adapt and be flexible.
 

Johnnyduke

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There's a non-zero chance they might just think Pep Hamilton's a football genius. Or they just thought it'd be cool to interview an insane person.

Think of how fun the drama could be if we have another coach obsessed with starting the backup.

What other coach was "obsessed" with starting the backup?
 

DKH

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Ben Johnson runs a ton of play action(2nd most in nfl). Goff actually set a record this year for single game passing yards off play action. Pair that with Drake Mayes arm and ability to run and I think it’s a perfect match.

Ben Johnson actually runs the exact type of offense that would benefit Drake Maye the most in my opinion.

Now who knows if Ben Johnson is a good leader. I’d say the ceiling is significantly higher with Ben Johnson, but Vrabel is a safer pick and an established leader.

I know who I would choose.
Ben Johnson is perfect for probably any place but here

He’s according to people who cover the Lions introverted and likes the part of the game he’s working on strategy

Boston is very tough place we take our sports serious - we want to win and we have strong opinions and a competitive media with all types

First year coach after a first year coach

Don’t see it
 
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smithformeragent

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When I was a kid growing up watching in the early 90s, the NFC was a powerhouse.

Whoever made it through the AFC was going to get blown out by the lakes of Dallas or San Francisco in the Super Bowl anyway.

In the AFC, you have to contend with Mahomes,Allen, Jackson, and Burrow.

Which is a roundabout way of me saying, you’re not containing for a Super Bowl anytime soon.

So bring a guy to build a program, develop your quarterback, and build your identity. If you win five or six games next year, so be it. Continue to build and to bring in the kind of players you want to create a culture around.

Is Vrabel that guy?
 

UncleRico

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Ben Johnson is perfect for probably any place but here

He’s according to people who cover the Lions introverted and likes the part of the game he’s working on strategy

Boston is very tough place we take our sports serious - we want to win and we have strong opinions and a competitive media with all types

First year coach after a first year coach

Don’t see it

I just don’t see it with Vrabel. He sunk the ship in Tennessee as fast as he grew it. He constantly butted heads with the GM.

He interviewed with the Carolina Panthers and Atlanta Falcons last year, neither of them were impressed enough to hire him. No one around the league wanted him to the point he took a consulting job with the Browns.

The Jets are the only other team besides the Pats to request an interview with him.

Not to mention all of his passing offenses were bottom 1/3 of the league in Tennessee. Not the guy you want to build around Drake Maye IMO.

Also sounds like his OC is going to be Tommy Rees, another guy who has never called plays at the NFL level.
 

UncleRico

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When I was a kid growing up watching in the early 90s, the NFC was a powerhouse.

Whoever made it through the AFC was going to get blown out by the lakes of Dallas or San Francisco in the Super Bowl anyway.

In the AFC, you have to contend with Mahomes,Allen, Jackson, and Burrow.

Which is a roundabout way of me saying, you’re not containing for a Super Bowl anytime soon.

So bring a guy to build a program, develop your quarterback, and build your identity. If you win five or six games next year, so be it. Continue to build and to bring in the kind of players you want to create a culture around.

Is Vrabel that guy?

Vrabels culture/style also pushed guys like AJ Brown out of Tennessee.
 

Shaun

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Vrabels culture/style also pushed guys like AJ Brown out of Tennessee.
pretty sure it was the owner/GM who didn’t want to pay him that caused the problems.*

*he was on my fantasy team that season and tanked my chances.
 

UncleRico

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May 8, 2017
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pretty sure it was the owner/GM who didn’t want to pay him that caused the problems.*

*he was on my fantasy team that season and tanked my chances.

Vrabel gave AJ brown assurances he wouldn’t be traded as long as he was HC.

Vrabels pass offenses were bottom 1/3 of the league during his tenure, limiting AJ Browns success resulting in the GM not wanting to pay
 

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