Player Discussion Patrik Laine

[sampollock]

fat tony would not recant his "gone for season" plays it out that the 2nd opinion was the key

would not admit he was wrong

 

[Ozmodiar]

Exactly. You have people skating at you every second, the system cant tell if they are going to poke check the puck, hit you or simply guard you one on one. Players are allowed to skate right by you and it doesnt mean they are a threat, but they could very well be. If it keeps buzzing, then its useless because the player wont react when its needed.

Without mentioning the culture - players are creatures of habit.
They had to be forced to wear eye shields, they wear 10 year old protective equipment, very few wear neck guards.

Also, would it drown out, or distract from, communication with teammates?

Savard would toss the gadget into the 10th row. lol

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Wow. I really hope there is no setback.

I remember when Carey was day to day, only to play 5 games and end his career...

fat tony would not recant his "gone for season" plays it out that the 2nd opinion was the key

would not admit he was wrong

Guy is a loud mouth chode filled with smegma

 

[sampollock]

Guy is a loud mouth chode filled with smegma

so proud of himself. you were wrong tony

 

[Habssince89]

Tony is entertaining sometimes but I don't ever trust him for inside info

 

[the]

Tony The Cannoli Gobbler having his meltdown this morning was funny.

 

[morhilane]

So as opposed to best 2 out of 3 I'd like to think the 1st person said looking at the initial images it looks like surgery and out for the year, but if we let the swelling go down a few days we will get a better idea. Then opinions 2 and 3 . I'm hoping ?

Going by Hughes interview with Godin, the first diagnostic was right after they pulled him into the room during the game and I get the impression it was more "guts feeling" then a deep evaluation the way he is talking. But Habs always send the players to a knee specialist to have a 2nd opinion anyway. It was that specialist who said "no surgery, only a sprain" (probably on Sunday, since Laine was at practice Monday). Since they didn't quite believe that, they sent Laine to a 3rd specialist Tuesday who confirmed.

 

[overlords]

Going by Hughes interview with Godin, the first diagnostic was right after they pulled him into the room during the game and I get the impression it was more "guts feeling" then a deep evaluation the way he is talking. But Habs always send the players to a knee specialist to have a 2nd opinion anyway. It was that specialist who said "no surgery, only a sprain" (probably on Sunday, since Laine was at practice Monday). Since they didn't quite believe that, they sent Laine to a 3rd specialist Tuesday who confirmed.

I sort of wish it was more of a goldilocks scenario where one of the three specialists was like, ' Never seen a healthier knee in my life, get back out there kid'. Crave would make an episode per specialist.

 

[JIMVINNY]

I have expertise in deep learning-based human pose estimation. Here is one of my papers in the area, as it relates to geriatric fall detection. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10388590
I am the third author. This was originally my idea, including the choice of deep neural network architecture, though the San Diego State people did the implementation.

This kind of processing can work with simple digital video, even though we've done it with 3D range-sensing in our on-going work.
It could easily be a hockey player, and the software algorithm could easily run on embedded processors in the clothing. In my opinion, it could run fast enough to alert a player of an oncoming impact in under 1/10 of second.

The Habs could actually be innovators in this area, or they can finish at the top of the IR list in the NHL again. My vision of this problem is starkly different from yours, or the team's, which I consider passive, if you'll pardon the pun.

I've never heard of this before today, but now I'm envisioning an AI algorithm tied into the video feeds from the players helmets. The AI watches the game around the player, anticipates contact that is outside of what is considered a typical hockey "pose", and alerts the player of the impending contact? Is that how it would work?

Even if all a player does is tense up, that could definitely reduce the whiplash style injuries that result from unexpected contact.

 

[HomaridII]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1841561723754389690

From a couple hours ago. Also his Fiancee said she would reveal some behind the scenes about the diagnosis to show what athletes go through in terms of mental health.

 

[Kennerback]

Going by Hughes interview with Godin, the first diagnostic was right after they pulled him into the room during the game and I get the impression it was more "guts feeling" then a deep evaluation the way he is talking. But Habs always send the players to a knee specialist to have a 2nd opinion anyway. It was that specialist who said "no surgery, only a sprain" (probably on Sunday, since Laine was at practice Monday). Since they didn't quite believe that, they sent Laine to a 3rd specialist Tuesday who confirmed.

What’s the prognostic for « no surgery, only a sprain ». I assume it’s a very bad sprain?

 

[The Last Red]

Tony The Cannoli Gobbler having his meltdown this morning was funny.

His “explanation” last night on the Sickly Podcast was so lame.

fat tony would not recant his "gone for season" plays it out that the 2nd opinion was the key

would not admit he was wrong

Surprised?

 

[morhilane]

What’s the prognostic for « no surgery, only a sprain ». I assume it’s a very bad sprain?

Very bad knee sprain require surgery.

 

[JianYang]

2-3 months is a fantastic prognosis considering the hopelessly optimistic view would have had him at 4-6 weeks.

Terrible news on reinbacher. This was a very important year for him.

 

[CHwest]

Going by Hughes interview with Godin, the first diagnostic was right after they pulled him into the room during the game and I get the impression it was more "guts feeling" then a deep evaluation the way he is talking. But Habs always send the players to a knee specialist to have a 2nd opinion anyway. It was that specialist who said "no surgery, only a sprain" (probably on Sunday, since Laine was at practice Monday). Since they didn't quite believe that, they sent Laine to a 3rd specialist Tuesday who confirmed.

I wonder if Dr. Recchi was consulted.

 

[Toene]

Tony The Cannoli Gobbler having his meltdown this morning was funny.

I liked his meltdown of yesterday more

 

[Tyson]

Tony The Cannoli Gobbler having his meltdown this morning was funny.

I watch him because he is such a tool. He is so full of himself it blows me away. He probably has never played the game but yet gets a microphone as a so called expert.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Even if all a player does is tense up, that could definitely reduce the whiplash style injuries that result from unexpected contact.

A relaxed posture is more able to absorb impact.

Think Judo, car accidents …. Spaghetti.

 

[Toene]

I watch him because he is such a tool. He is so full of himself it blows me away. He probably has never played the game but yet gets a microphone as a so called expert.

I never really listened to his english shows because I found him unsufferable, but I gave a try to his new show in french on BPM (FM radio) a few times now and it's surprisingly decent. The Alex guy is a nice counter-balance to Marinaro. And it's as if Tony is more humble and more vulnerable since he has to host in his second-language. He still has his obnoxious rants from time to time, but when it happens I just switch to the more soothing Première chaîne to wait for it to pass lol.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

I've never heard of this before today, but now I'm envisioning an AI algorithm tied into the video feeds from the players helmets. The AI watches the game around the player, anticipates contact that is outside of what is considered a typical hockey "pose", and alerts the player of the impending contact? Is that how it would work?

Even if all a player does is tense up, that could definitely reduce the whiplash style injuries that result from unexpected contact.

Yes, there are doubters, as you could see, but I find the application so compelling that I'm bringing it up with my collaborator from San Diego State, with whom I've started a company called Neural Pose LLC.

I'm convinced that if the configuration of cameras and CPUs/FPGAs, running an HPE deep neural network, trained on a broad set of training poses, from the full width of the rink (no need for full length I think) to a few feet away, the DNN could indeed track joint positions and their time derivatives (velocities) in order to estimate time to impact as well as the footprint of the impact on the player's body, probably within a tenth of second.

All it needs to do in order to alert the player unambiguously is to buzz the helmet from the appropriate direction (the vector to the center of mass of the contacting player), to get the player to turn his/her head and protect himself/herself. (Edit: alternately, an AR display on the visor showing the direction of the vector, like the minute hand of a clock...). Nothing prevents an early warning, beginning from the distance that initially separates the opponent from the wearer, at the outset (obviously enabling an early detection), which increases in amplitude with the imminence of the contact. For anyone to claim that there isn't enough time is to just lay bare how technically out of their depth they are. I have policy of not engaging that kind of argument, given my Twainian maxim of not arguing with fools. That's what Ignore is for.

We could do better than just have the player tense up. In a manner that diffuses the automobile airbag around the player's body, the equipment could do the tensing up for him/her (through pneumatic actuation and well-designed form-fitting, slender airbags), according to where the protection is needed, which we establish based on the footprint of the kinematics of the contacting opponent on the wearer.

Now, as to whether the Habs should engage in it, it seems that a Babson MBA graduate like Molson should equate crisis with opportunity and actually see a way to profit from it, once he establishes working prototypes that impact his team's IR statistics. Or, he can do business as usual and be at the top of the league in IR stats again, based on the passive magic thinking shared with the troglodytes of this board.

 

[RandR]

Going by Hughes interview with Godin, the first diagnostic was right after they pulled him into the room during the game and I get the impression it was more "guts feeling" then a deep evaluation the way he is talking. But Habs always send the players to a knee specialist to have a 2nd opinion anyway. It was that specialist who said "no surgery, only a sprain" (probably on Sunday, since Laine was at practice Monday). Since they didn't quite believe that, they sent Laine to a 3rd specialist Tuesday who confirmed.

I would guess that:
- the first doctor to look at it was a team doctor who has lots of experience with sports injuries but doesn’t do (knee) surgeries
- as you said, the 2nd doctor was a knee specialist who I would speculate was also a surgeon, plus could have been the doctor who would have done the surgery itself
- as Laine is a multi-million dollar sports star and the non-surgical approach has a career-ending risk if he doesn’t fully heal, it made sense for Hughes or Gorton or whomever to request a 3rd opinion in order to be more sure, and I would assume that that 3rd opinion was also from a knee specialist who does surgeries on professional athletes.

Decades ago I had an injury where the specialist who would have been the one to operate on me basically over-ruled another doctor who was also a specialist. In my case, my family doctor referred me to a specialist who said I needed surgery so I was referred to a surgeon at the same hospital. However, in the pre-surgery consultation with the doctor who was going to do the surgery that doctor advised against surgery saying he would still do it if I insisted (I didn’t) but that it really wasn’t necessary (plus carried some risk).

 

[sampollock]

I never really listened to his english shows because I found him unsufferable, but I gave a try to his new show in french on BPM (FM radio) a few times now and it's surprisingly decent. The Alex guy is a nice counter-balance to Marinaro. And it's as if Tony is more humble and more vulnerable since he has to host in his second-language. He still has his obnoxious rants from time to time, but when it happens I just switch to the more soothing Première chaîne to wait for it to pass lol.

No guts Tony
He messed up his leak in pl and does not say he was wrong

 

[26Mats]

I watch him because he is such a tool. He is so full of himself it blows me away. He probably has never played the game but yet gets a microphone as a so called expert.

I don't get the impression he's that full of himself. Though I could be wrong if I ever met him in person. I feel his tooting his own horn is almost sarcastic/being silly. I mean let's say he does think he's really good at radio (whether you agree with it or not). Is that really something he thinks he's an incredible human for being good at? I don't think so.

I find myself less interested in his show recently. But what I like about him is he seems like a regular guy that dedicates himself to entertaining the Nontreal fan base in the best way he knows how. I do think his focus is on entertaining the fans.

 

[Habssince89]

No guts Tony
He messed up his leak in pl and does not say he was wrong

I can just hear his defensive voice now

"ARE YOU SAYING 3 MONTHS ISNT A LONG TIME???? I SAID VERY SERIOUS, LONG TERM AND THATS 3+ MONTHS!"