Player Discussion Patrik Laine

[Lafleurs Guy]

What would you call trading your 40g scoring captain then?

There was absolutely no plan. He trades Max but keeps Price? He signs Price but lets everyone else go? There was no plan... that's not a rebuild.

There's tanking and then there's rebuilding. Those are two vastly different things.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

What would you call trading your 40g scoring captain then?

Who traded a 40 goal scoring captain ?

 

[Mrb1p]

You cannot lose Kirby Dach for 82 games, have Caufiled with a bum shoulder and then lose Newhook for half a season and not have it affect you. Guhle couldn't stay healthy either.

And yet we still improved. Still went up ten points. Suzuki got much, much better. Slafkovsky arrived. CC's game was perfect except for his shot. Nothing to be upset about except injuries were insane.

It's one thing to have injuries, it's another to lose guys when they've played like one game. We were a very young team to begin with. Even if we'd had Dach for half a year that would've easily been another 30 points. CC would've been another 20-25 goals. That's an insane amount of offense to lose.

Laine was brought in for depth purposes. Guess what? We can't control what happened there. It is what it is.

But we've still got Roy. I still want to see what he can do. Yeah he's young but he needs to be given a chance.

And again, depth is easy to replace. We can go out and get a Toffoli or somebody like that if we really need to. Losing Laine is no big deal.

I'm not downplaying the injuries. But you're downplaying/forgetting about the even worse injury year we had the year before. It's not a net sum.

We got 10 more points but landed in the exact same spot on the standings, there's no difference.

We actually had one less win than we did in 23 and scored only like 4 goals more.

Who traded a 40 goal scoring captain ?

39 then

There was absolutely no plan. He trades Max but keeps Price? He signs Price but lets everyone else go? There was no plan... that's not a rebuild.

There's tanking and then there's rebuilding. Those are two vastly different things.

I'm not disputing that GMGarbage had a plan or was doing good. I'm disputing that the rebuild started on draft day of 22 when 3/4 of the known core was acquired before.

Or who cares call it a rebuild since 22, that doesn't change thst the window didn't change on that day. The young players were there already. The rebuild starting in 22 implies that we have ~10 years compete but ignores that the bulk of our core is older than that.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'm not downplaying the injuries. But you're downplaying/forgetting about the even worse injury year we had the year before. It's not a net sum.

We got 10 more points but landed in the exact same spot on the standings, there's no difference.

There's a huge difference. The standings don't matter, what matters is we got more points. I don't care if we were 15th one year and only 13th the next... we played better hockey.

And that we in spite of catostrophic injuries throughtout the lineup.

We actually had one less win than we did in 23 and scored only like 4 goals more.

And we were 2nd in the league in one goal losses. We easily could've been even better on that front. Again, injuries screwed us for a good 20 goals on CC alone. Dach for at least 30 points alone. Every team has injuries but those kinds of things aren't normal.

 

[Mrb1p]

There's a huge difference. The standings don't matter, what matters is we got more points. I don't care if we were 15th one year and only 13th the next... we played better hockey.

And that we in spite of catostrophic injuries throughtout the lineup.

And we were 2nd in the league in one goal losses. We easily could've been even better on that front. Again, injuries screwed us for a good 20 goals on CC alone. Dach for at least 30 points alone.

Okay then, you seem convinced I'll move on.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Okay then, you seem convinced I'll move on.

Look, worst comes to worst we can always add a secondary scorer. Buck up. It ain't that bad.

 

[Hacketts]

I’m not interested in speculatives. Let me know how long he’s out when we know the damn answer. These guesses of 6/8 weeks to forever are just not helpful.

I am not a Dr and could make this claim and I would almost be guaranteed to be right. Give me something of value please.

"Six Weeks to Forever"​

(Verse 1)
Six weeks to forever, and time’s moving slow,
Patrik Laine’s down, feelin’ the blow.
Injuries haunt him like a dark, lonesome night,
But he’s holdin’ on tight, ready to fight.

(Pre-Chorus)
Each day’s a battle, with shadows in tow,
But he’ll rise like the sun, let his true colors show.
With fire in his soul, he’ll break through the pain,
No more lookin’ back, he’ll dance in the rain.

(Chorus)
Six weeks to forever, will he find his way?
Lost in the unknown, but he’s here to stay.
One day he’ll never feel better, he’ll climb,
The Canadiens’ curse won’t steal his shine.

(Verse 2)
The road is uncertain, but he’s ready to roam,
With hope in his heart, he’ll find his way home.
Six weeks to forever, he’s learnin’ to fly,
With every step he takes, he’ll reach for the sky.

(Pre-Chorus)
Each bruise tells a story, each tear’s part of him,
He’s turnin’ the page, never givin’ in.
With every step forward, he’ll rise from the fall,
Defyin’ the odds, he’ll conquer it all.

(Chorus)
Six weeks to forever, will he find his way?
Lost in the unknown, but he’s here to stay.
One day he’ll never feel better, he’ll climb,
The Canadiens’ curse won’t steal his shine.

(Outro)
Six weeks to forever, his spirit won’t fade,
He’s breakin’ these chains, he’s unafraid.
Through all the uncertainty, he’ll find his way,
Six weeks to forever, he’s here to stay.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

And what are my expectations exactly which you call unrealistic?

I mentioned needing being entertained if I’m going to watch, and that adding elite talent to the team is great for player development. And stated my belief perpetual losers don’t learn how to win. Guy like Laine adresses much of that. I believe it trumps tanking at this point.

And I never argued against getting Laine.

Your expectations are high if you don't see/believe in the progress the team has had, which you clearly wrote.

A team that goes from 55 to 68 to 76 is not a perpetual loser, nor did this period negatively impact the players. Whether they stagnate for a season or not is not gonna change the process and won't be an indication that there's no progress, and it won't negatively impact the players, but rather make them more hungry, and more hopeful even still, as they see more talent coming in next year.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

What would you call trading your 40g scoring captain then?

Pacioretty was soon to be UFA and wanted to leave. Bergevin was cornered and couldn't afford to lose even more value for the future. It wasn't a tanking move as he went on to bolster the lineup not long after.

 

[junyab]

What would you call trading your 40g scoring captain then?

I agree that just looking at that singular trade it would point to that conclusion, but I believe his contract extension negotiations weren't going well and there were leadership and locker-room issue rumours.

I think MB was so incompetent that he wasn't going in any defined direction for most of his tenure.

 

[junyab]

I believe the rebuild started when our franchise started to take an easily observable direction and when our GM publicly reported it as such.

 

[Naslundforever]

And I never argued against getting Laine.

Your expectations are high if you don't see/believe in the progress the team has had, which you clearly wrote.

A team that goes from 55 to 68 to 76 is not a perpetual loser, nor did this period negatively impact the players. Whether they stagnate for a season or not is not gonna change the process and won't be an indication that there's no progress, and it won't negatively impact the players, but rather make them more hungry, and more hopeful even still, as they see more talent coming in next year.

Well I am just sharing my own eye test, team stats being so bad and like @Mrb1p wrote, they barely moved up in the standings. As far as their untapped potential and collective resilience/moral, I hope they are as “glass half full” types as yourself and LG and obviously that a few noobs exceed predictions.

I didn’t expect them to sniff the playoffs with Laine or not btw. I do hope some elite ufa’s will join the team for Suzuki, Slaf and Hutson’s prime years though, not sure Demidov and 2025 draftee is enough for the next step.

I’ll try and enjoy Slaf and Hutson and not be too much of a negative Nancy around here.

 

[ReHabs]

Your specific definition of tanking clashes with the reality of the second paragraph. Beyond the fact that Pacioretty wasn't a "prime of his career 40g winger" (He never hit 40 goals, he turned 30 in his first season in Vegas and he was coming off a season where he didn't even hit 20 goals), Bergevin explicitly said he wasn't rebuilding, and his moves (in both effect and his stated intention) didn't reflect a rebuild (such as Tatar outscoring Pacioretty in 2018-2019).

I didn't say the Habs were tanking in 2018. I said the Habs were tanking for three years, ie since 2021. Read before you fire off a reply. Waste of time.

The general argument of "we’re not anywhere close to where we want to be" is that the team needs to demonstrate that they are closer, and many fans seem to want to just assume that Montreal has a competitive core absent any evidence, based solely on vibes.

Teams don't improve without rosters improving. Rebuilding is building. The argument goes both ways: a team can't be better if it doesn't get better players.

There's no unanimously positive move for the fanbase (the closest may have been drafting Demidov - a rebuilding move), but most arguments against acquiring Laine (like acquiring PLD last offseason) was cost. Once the trade went down and fans saw it was Laine + a 2nd for Harris, some of the most vocal anti-Laine posters changed their minds entirely. Its about recognition of where Montreal is and how far away they actually are.

Those against the acquisition of significant roster upgrades were wrong and remain wrong. There is no other way to build a winning team than to acquire high-value players and it is never done solely through the draft.

Suzuki, Caufield and Guhle are great players. They were and are a great starting point. But Montreal was not unique among teams starting rebuilds in having pieces like that. Its just revisionist history to say that the rebuild started there.

The Habs starting with those assets is a good thing and it shouldn't be denied. There is no fixed rebuild timeline or a SOP. Starting with a top6 C, a top6 scorer, and a top4 d-man + the player that became another top6 C (Romanov->Dach) is a terrific starting hand by any measure. There is absolutely no need for anybody to deny this and insist that our rebuild is still too young. We have a ton of present-day high-potential or high-value assets... it's a good thing.

 

[Lshap]

"Six Weeks to Forever"​

(Verse 1)
Six weeks to forever, and time’s moving slow,
Patrik Laine’s down, feelin’ the blow.
Injuries haunt him like a dark, lonesome night,
But he’s holdin’ on tight, ready to fight.

(Pre-Chorus)
Each day’s a battle, with shadows in tow,
But he’ll rise like the sun, let his true colors show.
With fire in his soul, he’ll break through the pain,
No more lookin’ back, he’ll dance in the rain.

(Chorus)
Six weeks to forever, will he find his way?
Lost in the unknown, but he’s here to stay.
One day he’ll never feel better, he’ll climb,
The Canadiens’ curse won’t steal his shine.

(Verse 2)
The road is uncertain, but he’s ready to roam,
With hope in his heart, he’ll find his way home.
Six weeks to forever, he’s learnin’ to fly,
With every step he takes, he’ll reach for the sky.

(Pre-Chorus)
Each bruise tells a story, each tear’s part of him,
He’s turnin’ the page, never givin’ in.
With every step forward, he’ll rise from the fall,
Defyin’ the odds, he’ll conquer it all.

(Chorus)
Six weeks to forever, will he find his way?
Lost in the unknown, but he’s here to stay.
One day he’ll never feel better, he’ll climb,
The Canadiens’ curse won’t steal his shine.

(Outro)
Six weeks to forever, his spirit won’t fade,
He’s breakin’ these chains, he’s unafraid.
Through all the uncertainty, he’ll find his way,
Six weeks to forever, he’s here to stay.

Hendrix covering this at Woodstock is still my favourite version.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Those against the acquisition of significant roster upgrades were wrong and remain wrong. There is no other way to build a winning team than to acquire high-value players and it is never done solely through the draft.

Those people don’t exist. Nobody is against adding talent. It always depends on what talent at what price.

Take a look back at the threads when Laine first became available. Some folks were ready to give up Mailloux. That is insane.

We did exactly what we should… got paid to take him. The only people who were wrong were those who wanted to pay top dollar for a guy we should be paid to take.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I believe the rebuild started when our franchise started to take an easily observable direction and when our GM publicly reported it as such.

Indeed. Trying to arbitrarily pin it anywhere else is just someone looking to build a narrative.

 

[HomaridII]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1840835197341728970

 

[ReHabs]

Indeed. Trying to arbitrarily pin it anywhere else is just someone looking to build a narrative.

The rebuild + tank definitely started in 2021 with Bergevin's firing. This is indisputable and any argument made to the contrary is just fiddling with definitions and interpretations.

We did have some very valuable super young assets that a typical rebuilding club would not readily have with its starting hand -- we hit jackpot with Caufield at 15OA and had Nick Suzuki turn out better and more reliable than expected (a potential 1C rather than a good 2C).

 

[BergevinBurner]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1840835197341728970

The Caufield and St.Louis quotes come across as if they know he's done for the season. If they were uncertain of the extent of the injury or knew it was 6-8 weeks then I doubt we'd be getting quotes like this.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The rebuild + tank definitely started in 2021 with Bergevin's firing. This is indisputable and any argument made to the contrary is just fiddling with definitions and interpretations.

We did have some very valuable super young assets that a typical rebuilding club would not readily have with its starting hand -- we hit jackpot with Caufield at 15OA and had Nick Suzuki turn out better and more reliable than expected (a potential 1C rather than a good 2C).

Every rebuilding team usually starts off with a few assets like this. They all tend to take more than simply 3 years too.

 

[Habssince89]

The Caufield and St.Louis quotes come across as if they know he's done for the season. If they were uncertain of the extent of the injury or knew it was 6-8 weeks then I doubt we'd be getting quotes like this.

Disagree slightly. I think they know it's bad but not how bad yet. Swelling etc needs to go down.

 

[McGees]

they have the news...just delaying it for dumb reasons I'm sure

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Am i stupid, how long is he gonna miss ? Can't find anything except he was on the bench.

 

[BergevinBurner]

Am i stupid, how long is he gonna miss ? Can't find anything except he was on the bench.

They didn't give an update today, apparently it's coming tomorrow.

 

[Murky]

Am i stupid, how long is he gonna miss ? Can't find anything except he was on the bench.

Not known yet. The thread is derailed so hard to find info, but it's not there, yet.

EDIT: Next page :sigh: